You are not responsible for the rape or sexual assault you endured

[differentnameforthis]

In light of many threads about Ched Evans' & his victim & in light of those who believe she could have prevented it by being sober (!), I thought it was important to raise this issue.

It doesn't matter if you were drunk
It doesn't matter if you were alone
It doesn't matter if you got into a taxi/car/train/bus with him
It doesn't matter if you went to a room with him
It doesn't matter if you knew him
It doesn't matter if you didn't know him
It doesn't matter if you started to have sex with him & said no
It doesn't matter if you had sex with him an hour/a day/a week before
It doesn't matter if you had sex with his friend
It doesn't matter what you were wearing

YOU ARE IN NO WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RAPE/SEXUAL ASSAULT YOU ENDURED.

We believe you

So what? We all avoid each other in case we attack each other...

Animals are known for their lack of control & potential to attack
Humans are known to be able to control themselves, so therefore we cannot compare the two.

To those who claim that they will raise their daughters to avoid rapists/ inferred consent/ tigers - I take it if your daughter is ever raped the first thing you will do is blame her?

OP, you are obviously on a soapbox and very very angry this morning.

There will be no point in having a discussion with you because, as you have already shown, you will shout down anyone who brings up anything slightly opposed to your views.

I suggest you get off this thread for a while and go and take some deep breaths.

Please don't feel I posted just to get people to feel sorry for me or anything, I just want people to be aware that it really isn't straightforward.

I know that if I was in a situation with someone who I thought "ah, they might be dangerous" I would obviously leave. I wasn't, and it still happened.

Please please learn yourselves and teach your daughters to TELL SOMEONE if anything ever happens. I froze. I couldn't have screamed or stopped him or anything. I've learnt more and more that that is a natural reaction. If however, I had told someone immediately, it probably would have been more helpful for me in the long run.

Would you also tell a man to be cautious in case he is raped?

Thousands of men get drunk in bars surrounded by other men (and women) every single day.

If one of them were raped would you think he was partly to blame for another man putting his penis into his victims anus, simply because he was drunk?

Caulkhead I think that's half the problem isn't it. Most of the time the situation doesn't appear to be dangerous - until of course something bad happens :/

Yes fair enough take precautions (whatever that means) but it really isn't straightforward! Victim blaming just makes it so much harder to come forward when something does happen.

I agree that freezing is a natural reaction, it happened to me too and all those who I know have been through similar.

And I too would like to know how a person 'infers yes'

How could anyone oppose the OP?

'No' means 'no'. I even impose that rule when tickling dd. If she shouts 'stop' she knows that means you have to 'stop'. There is no doubt what 'no' or 'stop' means.

How could anyone oppose the OP?

Her views are hers, and mine are mine. She obviously will not accept that anyone could think anything different to her own.

I totally agree with you OP.

Oh I agree with OP's first post - because that is how life SHOULD be.......in an ideal world. Unfortunately the world we live in is flawed and so we must make allowances for that to keep ourselves safe. Common sense really.

A woman could be falling around drunk, undressed and vulnerable and my DH, my BIL and other male friends would not rape her. Because they are not rapists.

I was raped as a teenager, while I was drunk. I was at my friend's house with a few other friends there, and some young men she vaguely knew turned up and came in. One of them raped me and then he and his friend exposed themselves to another girl and tried to assault her. I don't believe that any responsibility should be attributed to me for being raped because I was drunk. I wasn't raped because I was drunk, I was raped because he was a rapist.

The idea that "everyone has a right to be cautious" make no sense. It seems to imply that some women go out and "take risks" because they want to be raped.

Some people dress in short clothes, drink alcohol, go out dancing, whatever. All of these are normal, law-abiding activities that adults in our country are free to engage in. They are not dangerous activities, and they are certainly nowhere near as dangerous as being around a wild animal.

Some people rape. This is a crime.

Who is the problem here? The people who dress up and have fun or the people who rape? Why should the people who are simply having fun be the ones who have to change their behaviour, particularly given that their behaviour has nothing to do with the crimes committed against them?

BTW to "infer yes" means that you believe someone else is saying yes by their actions or by other words that they've said.

To imply yes is to give other people the impression you have said yes. I don't see how a woman can "imply yes," but maybe you can let us know HumblePie?

Op needs to calm down? Needs to get off her soapbox?

Patronising horseshit.

Plainly this is an issue that needs going over time and time again, judging by the amount of people who fail to grasp that rapists rape because they are rapists.

As for the tiger analogy... Yes, of course, men are like wild animals, and people around them need to adjust their behaviour accordingly, or risk rape.

HumblePieMonster just because a woman gets into bed with a man doesn't mean she wants to have sex with him. And if she doesn't want to have sex with him it doesn't mean that she doesn't want him, at all. She may not want it that moment but may at a different time. She may not want it ever, it's her prerogative.

Seriously if we taught out daughters not to take risks we wouldn't leave them in a school or nursery with people we don't know. We wouldn't let them travel in a car or a bus or a train. We wouldn't let them out of the house!

When I met my DH I was 16, quite inexperienced and naive. He was older, more experienced and more worldly. I jumped into bed with him pretty much straight away. Things got heated, obviously. I got to the point of almost sex and realised I wanted to wait, I was quite ready for that yet. I stopped, he stopped, because I wanted him too. I took a risk, yes, but I was fine, he was a normal guy.

We take risks every single day. Are you really saying as women we should never be alone with men in case they happen to rape us? Never share a bed with them unless we're prepared for sex? Your opinion is that men can't be trusted?

differentnameforthis thank you for posting this. I totally agree with your first and subsequent posts.

"Calm down", Pepper? And you're calling OP patronising?

Yes it does need repeating, and repeating and repeating, because there are people like PPs on this thread who talk about taking precautions and being responsible for how your behaviour affects men, like rapists have an absolute charter to attack anyone they choose. It's an issue I can get pretty fucking not calm about, and I applaud the OP.

The idea that "everyone has a right to be cautious" make no sense. It seems to imply that some women go out and "take risks" because they want to be raped
No it doesn't.
It simply suggests that whilst some women might want to rely on other people having a full understanding of their rights and entitlements, the rest of us will put our safety first.

"It simply suggests that whilst some women might want to rely on other people having a full understanding of their rights and entitlements, the rest of us will put our safety first."

Are you happy living in a world where your "rights and entitlements" are curtailed by men Humble?

I don't buy the cautious thing, I'm sorry. I think there is a difference between being cautious and being aware.

Aargh sorry Pepper - misread you there! You were clearly quoting a PP's views.

this is going to be a highly emotive thread. Probably 98% of rapes go totally unreported, perhaps that figure is even higher and of those that ever make it to court, only a tiny fraction ever result in prison sentences for the perpetrator.
I think that the basic message here is for women to stay as safe as possible. If we get raped within marriage, long term relationships, with friendships then I think we do need to think of men as having the potential to act like wild animals.
There are those who truly believe that a woman 'asked for it' or somehow deserved it but I don't believe that is what any poster here is really implying.
Many men view any sort of friendliness from a female as a green light to sex.
It's always been a man's world as they have generally always held the bulk of the power and wealth in the world. It is going to be incredibly tough to break this male dominated cycle of power and control.
We need to do more work with boys and men to change their perception of what sexual abuse is all about. Sadly, rape like so many other issues that negatively affect women, seems to be barely spoken about. It's almost as if females in the world are born to be second to men and are there to be abused. The plight of women is bad enough in this country but in many parts of the world they are truly, deeply horrific and they have no recourse whatsoever to protection or justice.

Humble I took up running a while ago, and really enjoy it. I run in the evenings when DCs are in bed so for half the year that's after dark. I live near a large park/common type area so I run there. Some people have told me that this is risky behaviour. From your perspective, should I give up running? Only run in summer? If I carry on running and am attacked, is it my fault?