Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - thread 29

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Ritual just join right in. We won't derail, the conversation in here kind of ebbs and flows back and forth here and there, depending on everyone's needs. Feel free to chip in with your question.

Curt Well done! My STBXH hasn't seen our DCs in 2 months. He is accusing me of mind games and not letting him see the DCs, which is ridiculous. He just wants it all his way at his convenience in order to control, and I'm not budging on certain aspects of contact. I will admit it's headache inspiring some days, but it's still better than living with him and dealing with it literally all. the. time. Small victories, eh?

Hi sorry for not replying earlier.

Re couples counselling - he wants to continue going. He thinks they are helping him.
We have been together 24 years. He is very jealous and controlling. I suffered with panic and anxiety for 3 years and managed to get a part time job last year which has helped massively.
Last June we split for 5 months but he moved back nov but into spare room. Financial.
I find myself saying same things each time we go counselling. Re his moods, lies, controlling etc
Two sons 24 and 19. He is jealous of them
I have definitely changed since we split. I was so low with anxiety I will never go back to being that low again. So I protect myself which means barriers are up.
When he acts like fw I just can't be bothered with him. When he has had a drink he gets nasty. Again I just put my barrier up and it takes a week or so before I can let it down again.
Does that make any sense.

We have been together so long I feel that it deserves us to keep trying, and I do love him. But times I really don't like him.
He is immature, self obsessed and money obsessed.
I'm 47, kids don't need me and my friends don't live near. Thank god for my job.

Sorry it's long

Funny I'd venture that he wants to continue going because the "helping him" is that they are keeping you there, keeping you guilty, and helping him maintain control that he wouldn't otherwise have. If you've been going almost a year, still sayin ghte same things, no change in his behaviour, then he is USING the counselling to keep you there - the old "I need time to change" thing, even though he clearly doesn't want to and has no intention of changing.

You don't "owe" him to keep trying. Your children are adults. You are employed so can support yourself. I think that he is desperately trying to manipulate you because he realises that guilt is most likely his only hold on you at the moment. You desert to be happy. Love isn't always enough. I loved my STBXH, but sometimes I didn't like him at all. I certainly didn't understand how he could treat his family so horribly. While I have to deal with him due to contact issues you won't even have that! You have the luxury of being able (due to your children being adults) to make a clean break and make your own life!

oh lord I can almost type.... you DESERVE to be happy. (not desert)

pardon me whilst I search for my brain....

Thanks karen and alice. Like you say, small victories. I don't know if not wanting anything to do with us is his final word and he's decided seeing our DC is too much hassle, or if it's one more mind game to get me to respond. Whatever it is, I'm not buying into it. He knows where to find me if he wants to man up and be a decent dad. We shall see.

Oh I'm so not looking forward to that next stage! Horrible long weekend with h moping around like a lost soul telling me how much he loves and needs me-emphasise on need I think. Had crisis team involved because of his threats to self harm and they keep asking him why we don't have marriage counselling! Of course haven't asked me, why can't he just accept its over, we are living together so of course I have to support him, doesn't mean I am going to change my mind...driving me insane!!!

What to do. Stbxh has said good riddance, never wants to speak to me again, no contact with DC unless I apologise for questioning his priorities (which are clearly way off as is evident in the amount if times he's missed visitating due to his pettiness). I don't think it's unreasonable as resident parent to want him to sort his priorities out over seeing DC and actually turn up when he says he will. So what do I have to apologise for? I haven't been nasty or unreasonable, I've made a very straightforward request, nothing more.
He on the other hand has called me all the names under the sun and made out I'm to blame for him not seeing our DC. I know I'm not.
So if I apologise, admit my 'error' and basically beg his forgiveness, I know my DC will see their daddy. But it feels so awful and demeaning, to apologise when I know I've done nothing wrong. I know it will leave my burgeoning self esteem in tatters again. This was one of his favourite manipulation techniques when we were together, to have me feel like having an opinion and the cheek to voice it is wrong and should be apologised for. It was his way of keeping me in my place. So do I let him get away with it, swallow my pride and 'apologise'? Or do I carry on saying hell will freeze over before I apologise for doing nothing wrong?
I hate his stupid, childish games in which my babies are the pawns. What I really want to do is tell him to eff off and if he wants to see DC I'll see him in court
Any ideas? This is just tying me in knots.

Stbxh has said good riddance, never wants to speak to me again, no contact with DC unless I apologise for questioning his priorities

What to do? Wave goodbye and don't look back. Call his bluff. Go NC and ignore him utterly.

It's all about him trying to exert control over you. Don't play the game. Ignore. I wouldn't apologise. The DCs will be okay. Do you want him to start playing these types of games with your DCs as well? Manipulating them?

That line you crossed out? That idea works for me. Other than the F off part, as you don't want him to know he's irritated you. Just say "okay, no contact then." and leave it at that.

Thanks alice I know you're right, going NC is what I've done since that outburst and I know I need to stay that way. My DC don't even ask about him, and he has already had little tries at manipulating DD1 which I nipped in the bud immediately..who does that to a 3yo??
He thinks I'll cave, in fact he's relying on it to exonerate himself from blame. I can't let him do it anymore, can I.
I wouldn't actually tell him to eff off, it's not really in my nature but you get the gist. Just ignore him completely and not engage. He'd totally pulled me into the whole 'we can be friends for the kids sake' but it was just more control and manipulation. Quite disappointed in myself for even considering it a possibility.
I know what he wants of me and he's not getting it. My DC come first and they're doing just fine. He can tell everyone I'm the bitch ex from hell. I know I'm not. Might even get a decent night's sleep now I've got that off my chest.

Nope. My DCs haven't seen STBXH for over 2 months. His choice, as he's being horrible and uncooperative. I'm fine with it. They're doing great.

You don't need to be friends for the kids sake. He needs to be an ADULT for the kids sake. I fell for it too, to some extent, even though he was abusive FFS. I don't like being at odds with people, but that plays into the manipulation. I'm learning that I don't have to be friends or get along with everyone. I'm civil, detached, and that's it, really. (other than "on my guard against abusive behaviour")

As far as what he tells people, my mantra lately has been "those that know me know better, those that don't do not matter"

He needs to be an adult for the kids sake
That line right there sums it up. I've been civil, I've been amicable and co-operative with accomodating how he sees our DC (ie at my house), and when he offered an olive branch on his part I tentatively took it. I could see he was happy since we separated and I was glad, I hoped that happiness would turn him back, if only in part, to the lovely person I met six years ago. I kept getting glimpses of that person and I kept forgetting the abuse he'd put me through.

All he really needed to do was step up and be an adult and he couldn't do it, not even for these three awesome little people we created. He'd much rather play games, manipulate and control their mother than be the daddy they deserve. That makes me sad. I know it's his loss, but I have a brilliant dad and I'm sorry that the one I chose for my DC is a bloody fw.
At least they got a decent mummy

And that right there is what you need to remember. His loss, but they have a good mummy.

If there's one thing I've learned this time around, it's that no matter how they act, no matter what they say, no matter how NICE or CHARMING they may behave in the moment... the heart of a FW beats underneath, and I can never ever forget that. Sad, but true.

brain bleach anyone! Pass it round please.. gahh!

how is everyone else?

brain bleach? what's up?

Hi Vixens missing you all so much. I haven't caught up so just love peace and strength to all. I'm getting there but what a hard journey this is. Xx

Hi all ... you ok fairy?
All quiet on the western front here. Gone NC with stbxh since he said he wanted nothing to do with us..again. Waiting to see what happens next. Methinks he loves the drama too much to actually disappear up his own arse..but a girl can dream .
Wondering if I should drop him a brief text along the lines of 'You said you wanted no further contact. I won't be contacting you again after this.' So he knows exactly what my stance is. Thoughts?

Hi Fly love and strength to you x I lurk these days as my life has moved on and my DC are all adults so NC with FW apart from university support.
Curt don't text him it's like poking a wasp's nest. Leave him dormant. He wants you to interact.

Thanks Kou my only real issue with not making it plain to him that I've gone NC at his request, is that we have 3 very small DC. If I don't put it in writing, I worry that should he decide to look into seeing DC via a legal route, it'll look like I've been ignoring him and that I've closed the lines of communication, not him, thus preventing him from seeing our DC. This might look bad on my part? Just a bit unsure.

I suppose mainly I just don't want to give him any ammo to use against me.

Hi there Fly Kou good to hear from you Thanks Curt Alice a few moments of peace and quiet are sufficient to delude me that life could be different. Just having to go through someof the vile 're-writing history' type emails, that it was a way it wasn't, and head still not strong enough to start listening to it all again without starting to get drawn in again, just want to bleach it all out, and stop it again. How does one freeze an email account from receiving any more email, and yet be able to hang onto it for its contents and contacts? I need to set up and new one and get new numbers (these things are my main work feed tho, and reliant upon that).

I'm sure everyone thinks that I just need to get over myself and get a grip so i can deal with getting emails/phone calls from him, but I can't go over how will it be any different??? everything leads the same way, and everyone else can deny that all they like, but like curt says, anything given is engagement and onto tothe next step and next step.

So it all just feels like it will always be like 'poking the wasps nest', and that others saying i need to get a grip, is denying that its EA.

fairy I get that..it will always be like poking a hornets nest because it all goes a bit quiet and fine and you find yourself on edge waiting for what might come next. Right now, with him not communicating because I have to apologise before he'll see our DC, this still feels like EA because it is. I'm here feeling dreadful that they're not seeing him and he's making it my fault. My rational mind tells me it's not my fault, but we've been in EA marriages, we've been conditioned for a long time and that doesn't go away over night.
My mum will say things like 'well, you're separated, he can't have any hold over you now.' Or with regard to him not seeing DC until I apologise she just says 'good! ' ..she doesn't get that it's still all part of the control and manipulation and punishment.

get over how it will be any different... not go over.

have I got this wrong, that it stops eventually? That there is a way to be involved with someone so abusive and manipulative and that they do change? That he's only like this to me because I am allowing him to be, and he will stop rippng the DC apart putting them in the middle al the time.... I didnt think they ever change. I had the confirmation of his stalky tendencies the other day when I was out and caught sight of him, and he was already watching me intently, then again later, watching. always loooking.. eeeeeuuuuwww

x-post Curt yes, those words from others deny what it is

As far as stbxh tells me, I'm the only one he's like this with. Which in his mind makes it my fault. Which in turn, because I've been so well conditioned, I believe it's my fault even though my inner voice says it's not, even when outside influences tell me it's not. I still know at the bottom of me that if I just 'apologised' for being a normal, rational person asking or doing normal, reasonable things, he'd see our DC.

so will you ever be able to have a reasonable rs with him, i.e. will he ever not be a FW, or is he a FW because we allow them to be, and will that ever change...