Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - thread 29

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I have made my appointment with a solicitor today. Dh has no idea.

Hope your appointment went well FFF

I'm supposed to be organising a contact visit with KD for Saturday, and I'm just tired and can't think. It's frustrating trying to think of places that are ds1 friendly (and child friendly in general) that is near the bus line, while still being inexpensive (because he is not working, it would end up being me that pays). Contact visits should not be this difficult.

And before anyone says "Make him sort it..." if I leave it to him, this is what will happen...(from experience)

• he will demand to see them in MIL's home (not acceptable due to his previous behaviour)
• he will demand to see them in MY home (not acceptable due to his behaviour)
• he will want to take them to a soft play place (not acceptable due to expense as well as then he doesn't engage with them, he just sits and talks to me while they run off to play, while I still have to monitor them completely)

It can't be:

• swimming, as I end up doing all the work, all the monitoring due to safety reasons, and he will whinge as he doesn't like swimming and likes swimming with the dcs even less, and he (KD) has a massive tantrum every time because he doesn't like having to get the dcs dried off and changed afterwards, also transportation issues for KD (although IMO he can walk from the bus, but I suspect he will complain)
• bowling, due to expense and transportation issues for KD
• anything that KD cannot get to by using the one main bus into town
• anything that costs too much money, as I can't afford it
• anything that requires KD to be in sole charge of them at any point, as he is lax in safety concerns as well as impatient and intolerant of them and their behaviour (which can sometimes be an issue due to ds1's disabilities)

We'll most likely end up meeting at a specific local park, and I'll be worn out trying to keep track of both children while KD complains that it's too hot and he doesn't like to be outside much due to the heat. He'll rush them through trying a few things, then say it's time to go as he gets irritated at other parents/children. (been there, done that)

alice so soon after his suicide attempt do you really think it's a good idea to arrange contact for the DC's??? Does HE?? or... would he have to admit that it was a pure piece of manipulation on his part designed to get everyone thinking about poor him, get you running around to make arrangements to suit him obviously to avoid hurting his feelings because who knows what he might do ... contact centre, with proper supervision, sounds like the best solution? Just suggesting you look at this from a detached point of view.

Otherwise.... a quick 1/2 hour in the park, whisk the kids away afterwards? If you want to keep things calm, then you can!

thatsnot well, that was my feeling as well, but as we're in a public location, I can call time to the visit if he starts getting agitated and we'll be where there are other people.

Basically these are my options... none of them really ideal...

1- arrange contact at a suitable public location and supervise, even though it may be a bit stressful for me and irritating, as it will allow the dcs a chance to see their dad. (provided, of course, that he behaves appropriately)

2- insist on contact centre, which essentially denies him contact for at least a month, and will require £50 payment for paperwork processing, as well as a meeting for me to meet with contact centre personnel and for KD to meet with contact centre personnel. If I pay the £50 and he refuses to cooperate, I'm out £50. If I require he pays the £50, he'll either refuse as he is not working and obviously doesn't have it, or he (and his family) will accuse me of deliberately setting it up so he cannot have contact with the dcs.

3- deny contact altogether. Again, cue huge outrage from both KD and his family.

And yes, you could say "not you problem if he's upset that you've essentially cut off contact, due to his behaviour" and you'd not be wrong. However, the important thing here is the dcs. If I give him the opportunity, no matter how irritating and stressful it may be for me right now, the dcs are happy to see him, and on some level I feel that is important. As long as we are in a public place and I maintain supervision so the situation is safe for us, then I guess I will have to tamp down the irritation and get on with it.

I thought a lot about this. If I go one way and acquiesce to everything he requests due to the recent suicide attempt, he'll get the message that he can use emotional blackmail and manipulation to get what he wants. If I go the other way and deny all contact, then I look reactionary and risk giving the appearance (however rightly or wrongly) of being cruel and uncooperative.

If, however, I treat things as business as usual, I am hoping to make it clear that this recent incident has nothing to do with me. It is not my concern and that my focus, as always, is on what is best for the dcs. I am not responsible for providing support for him, nor am I going to pussyfoot around him. This is his problem and his alone. I am reasonably certain he is going to bring it up at some point and try to discuss it with me. I have some answers prepared for this and will make it clear that it's nothing to do with me and that I'm not willing to discuss it.

Sorry. I was mainly venting before, as I do get tired of it all, and need the outlet to vent sometimes. I can't discuss it in front of the dcs, obviously, so that leaves here online.

Sounds like a good approach: brisk, business-like, make sure the kids have a good time. As you say... don't engage re: recent events, hopefully he will see that you are being more than reasonable and not going along with any nonsense. But-- can you get some outside advice, WA or similar? It might be worth logging with GP or social workers, just in the interests of his welfare, or getting some advice on what's best. Was there any indication before that he was depressed about the DC's? If it goes well/doesn't go well, do you think that could push him over the edge, again? In any case he needs to admit to himself whats going on.

Yes, I'm looking to get some information from SW, but I'm still trying to figure out when to ring them, as I can't talk to them in front of dcs and dcs are home all the time. lol I can't just leave the room with ds1 as he needs direct supervision IYSWIM. I may send an email to the OT, as she is the person that reported previous incidents to SS, so she has a pretty clear idea of my situation. At least then it's documented somewhere. I may also ring SS and ask if I can speak to someone this evening when dcs are in bed.

No specific indication, but then, I wasn't really looking for one. My focus has been on the dcs. As far as pushing him over the edge, I expect him to be an adult and if he cannot cope with seeing the dcs, then I expect him to say so. I cannot read his mind, and if I question him too much, he expects me to support him and then offloads onto me and I just cannot do that. It ends up involving me, and I refuse to allow that.

It's quite a sticky situation, really. I am looking forward to my counselling starting up again in September, so I can discuss this with her.

really feel for you alice getting someone to call back sounds like a good idea? just to know you've got some external support. Of course he should take responsibilities for his actions, I'm just saying that he should admit to himself that he did a foolish thing and not make some story up about how he cares so much about the kids and now that he's out of their lives it pushed him over the edge... not suggesting that's what he is doing but it might be his internal self-monologue of what's happened, and he needs to be talking to someone about what's going on with him, to help him.

Apologies for randomly dropping into your thread, but I didn't where else to post this! researchers believe they have developed and validated a new method to identify which people are narcissistic. And, the beauty is that the tool is [[http://psychcentral.com/news/2014/08/06/it-takes-just-one-question-to-identify-narcissism/73260.html only a single question:] To what extent do you agree with this statement: “I am a narcissist.” As they say, narcissists don't see anything wrong with the way they are ...

Curiously, my mother self-identified as a narcissist while I was discussing the general concept with her. I wouldn't say she was wrong!

Bollocks
The tool is only a single question: To what extent do you agree with this statement: “I am a narcissist.”

Repeat repeat repeat. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage.

pfffffft

He has google map, he doesn't need to ask me for directions to a place he's been numerous times before. Lovely PA message asking if I have the same mobile number still if he gets lost. Yes, I'll have the mobile along with me. No, it's not on during the week, as I'm home, and he can e-mail me, and anyone that needs to contact me can do so on my landline or by fb or email. Why in gods name do I need to have multiple methods of contact going at once? I'm not a business. If I want, I can actually go completely "no contact" for no bloody reason other than "because I want to!" grrrrrrrr

Sorry. One of those days. Stressing due to impending contact visit.

Bloody hll, they are all the fcking same. I told FW here I would not update weekly during holidays, my phone was also off (it is a HOLIDAY), and I got messages of faux concern about whether we were okay. I felt guilty, compassionate, until he pulled a complete git stunt today, which made me realise that, apart from not ever letting me go legally, he will ALWAYS try to get one better and try to ruin important things for me with dc, which bring dc and me joy, because he cannot BEAR it not to be about him.

On one hand, it is so predictable it is funny, on the other, URGH, kicking myself for ever, ever thinking he was a decent guy. BLEURGH.

That was my vent.

Alice, ignore. He has the information, he is an adult, he can find it. Focus on your own emotional well-being. FWIW, I think business as usual till you get advice is a good approach.

GarlicAugustus, thank you. I would love, love, love to know how he would answer that question.

I am quite convinced that my STBXH is a narc. I'm not sure he'd answer yes to that direct question, though. I think he's too aware of how loaded the term is and very conscious of appearing as entirely good in the eyes of those who matter. I suppose it would depend who was asking the question, actually. When I asked it, he hedged his bets, but of course he wanted to say what I wanted to hear. If a psychiatrist asked him, he'd probably not care what he/she thought of him, so the answer could be quite different.

I believe I will be bingo-ing today, rather than venting on here. Safer, I suspect.

sigh. I am a dumbass. It's official. I'm just going to assume those of you I know from here know about the bingo, if not, PM me.

Alice, good that you are going out somewhere safer. I was wondering how yesterday went, hope you are okay. I won't be able to go out till later, I need to tidy the house before dc get back (a pointless exercise, really).

Bluebell PM'd you

You're not a dumbass, official or otherwise!

I love a good game of bingo, myself.

Charlotte PM'd you

Hi all. We arrived home at lunchtime after an exhausting but fun week. DC loved it, I loved it. Wish we could've stayed .

Back to reality with a bump today. Countless text messages from KD to trawl through (I made it my goal to NOT read them during the holiday!), and from skimming through them, he alternates between demanding to see DC, demanding I respond, to saying he's crying, in pieces, wishes I would soften and let him prove how much he wants our marriage to work. I'll read them properly once DC are asleep and respond accordingly.

alice I highly doubt you're a dumbass. Bingo?

Welcome back, Curt! :o

I think skim-reading is all those messages need, tbh. Arrange the next contact time and be done with it. Continue the NC as long as you can - indefinitely, if you don't count arranging contact.

NC is good for the soul!

Curt welcome back. Glad you had a good time!

And yes, I am a dumbass. Really. Yes, bingo.

Hi charlotte . Yeah, I just want to make sure I don't miss anything wrt to contact for next week. I highly doubt it, but want to cover myself just in case. I would predict him turning up, as he's sure to notice the house looks 'alive' again as he walks past. I won't be letting him in if he does.

And oh yes, NC was lovely, but DD1 asks for him quite a bit these days so I should sort contact asap methinks. He hasn't seen them for a month now, as everytime we arrange contact, he blobs

Hey alice..thanks . I need to catch up on the thread, find out what I've missed!

What a blob he is! (I haven't heard blob used as a verb before, but I kinda like it!)

Of course. Just make sure you skim over the nasty bits, then, in your second read through. Does anybody else do what I do - mutter a silly little tune in my head while I read, to keep me detached while I skim for the stuff which actually matters? I even hold the phone further away than I would normally, as if that would help with the detachment! :o