Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - thread 29

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I'm just going to have MN delete the thread. Bad idea, obviously, to be honest about having conflicting feelings in a complex situation. I had already stated what my ultimate decision would most likely be - in the negative - but I think I'm not up to dealing with him on any level yet, I knew this already.

And isn't it total crap that dealing with him is unavoidable! It'd be so lovely to be released from the obligation...

Yes. I just felt attacked, I guess. Not from you, but from the one poster.

I didn't say I was GOING to, simply that I wondered if I would, if he made changes. God, it's just so frustrating. Makes me feel like I just can't talk about it at all. Bottling things up makes me stressed - I needed to just get it out there. I tend to talk myself into the best decisions for me, waffling along the way.

I think it is helpful to get things down otherwise they fester. It also gives you something to look back on when you have a bit more clarity. And people saying things you did not mean, or which make you feel attacked, also helps with clarity.

I think the danger with FWs, and this is what you are dealing with, is that they are masters at coming across as reasonable, and when you have been dealing with the crap for so long, you want to believe they are/will be reasonable.

I think the comment (that upset me) would have been justified had I said "oh yes, I definitely considering it - I think I might." But I clearly did not say that - in fact I said I would not now and I wasn't even sure I could consider it if there were changes made IYSWIM. That didn't help with clarity, it put me on the defensive and made me feel like shit, because that's not what I said.

The other comments were measured and helpful. And DID help.

I'm often conflicted, particularly when he's being humble, which a lot of the texts I'm reading through now are showing. He so often lacked humility, but when I read things like these texts here, I recall the times he was capable of that and wonder if losing us has been enough to kick into life the man I originally knew and loved. Right now I'm looking at my behaviour within the marriage and wondering if I contributed to the man he became. It's a dangerous path.

But Alice, and I mean this kindly, the fact that one line in many made you feel defensive and shit shows just how emotionally worn down you are.

For me in your situation, the feeling shit would be in part because the fact that I could not consider it is a result of everything which has gone on. There is no way of undoing the damage which the relationship has done to me, no matter what FW does now. Of course, given the impasse you are at with KD, the fact that you cannot consider it is itself a reason for feeling shit. At no stage is this an outcome you would have chosen, it is not a situation you would have wished yourself in, and quite frankly, as the one who caused it, KD is breath-takingly selfish and self-absorbed to even raise it.

His raising it forces you to consider it, even in a hell would freeze over kind of way. The danger is, when you are emotionally exhausted, that someone else's madness begins to seem sane.

Deep breaths, right into your belly, a good night's sleep and back to business as usual

Exactly. I go back and forth, really. Generally sanity prevails, but usually because I force myself to remember not just the good stuff, but also the days and days where he was shouting and nasty. And the horrible behaviour since we've separated. And I did tell him that some things I'm not sure I can ever forgive him for.

Bluebell I'll agree with you in all but that one line that made me upset. Because that one line implied that I would risk my dcs. And I already made it very clear I would not. FFS that's why I separated from him. That's the MAIN reason why I wasn't sure I could ever consider it, because I could never really be sure - could never really trust him - because I could never risk putting the dcs in harm's way. That line made me feel like a shit parent, and I'm not.

The other comments made me think, made me consider why I was following these thoughts, why I was conflicted. They didn't make me feel horrible.

Huge difference IMO.

Curt it oddly helps to know that it's not just me that is conflicted sometimes. I suppose on some level it's that little spark of hope we carried when we were still together that they'd change. Never really dies, I suppose. But that's not enough reason for me. And even though I made it pretty clear to him, I think he heard what he wanted to hear. I'm going to have to be blunt next time and it's going to be uncomfortable.

Curt, me too - I do that from time to time. Wonder if it was me, that is.

But you cannot change somebody else. He and only he is responsible for the decisions he made and the actions he took. That's what being an adult is all about.

It wasn't our fault.

Bluebell, you are a wise, wise woman. I am often glad you are part of this thread.

His raising it forces you to consider it, even in a hell would freeze over kind of way. The danger is, when you are emotionally exhausted, that someone else's madness begins to seem sane.

This, yes. And I feel backed into it, like if I just say no, without giving him the chance to change that I'm being unreasonable. But logic tells me he DID have the chance to change - while we were together, when we separated. And he chose not to. Perhaps it didn't occur to him until recently that he needed to change. But that's not my problem and I can't allow it to be.

Oh gosh, the neverending theme of "You didn't give me a chance to change."

FW honestly believes that it was my responsibility to tell him that his behaviour needed changing. Never mind that I told him frequently. He didn't listen. That too is my fault. Obviously!

And while he was thinking self-righteous thoughts like that, he could quite avoid confronting his need to change. Thus appearing reasonable to anybody on the outside, while still being completely unreasonable in reality.

Thing is alice, like you I ultimately left for our DC's sake, I could not and would not let them think that level of toxicity was normal. And it would be for them that I would refrain from taking the risk of ever trusting him again. I'm constantly up and down emotionally when it comes to KD. I see these flashes and glimmers of the man I met and married and god, I loved him so, so much. He was, I think, the love of my life, and I think that's how he managed to hurt and abuse me as much as he did, for as long as he did. Because it was him. Because for long enough I forgave and forgave and one day I stopped. I put my responsibility as a parent over my status of wife. And that was that. Truthfully, I don't think (as a woman), I will ever stop loving him and wondering 'what if'. But as a mother, I can never forgive him, and I know 'what if' is a huge, huge risk..and one I don't think I could ever dare take.

Wow there's a lot of heart on the sleeve stuff there. I think that's been building up a while. Glad I got it off my chest on here rather than to him!

Curt that's me in a nutshell, really. But you put it much better than I could. Thank you for that.

alice you're welcome..glad I could articulate it. Sometimes just writing it down, seeing it in black and white, helps immensly with processing it.

Yes that's why I did that thread to begin with. Writing it all down is not as good as talking it through out loud, but certainly a close second for me. But I've asked for it to be deleted now, hopefully they will soon.

Truthfully, I don't think (as a woman), I will ever stop loving him and wondering 'what if'. But as a mother, I can never forgive him, and I know 'what if' is a huge, huge risk..and one I don't think I could ever dare take.

You see, this for me is accurate. And while I may ponder away on things here and there, turn it over in my mind, I don't think if push came to shove that I could actually go through with a reconciliation anyway. Just the thought of it at the moment makes me feel panicked.

alice, I'm a bit behind on general threads so didn't realise you'd had one. I find writing it down helps me far more than actually talking. When I talk I become upset or emotional quite easily, I find it hard to articulate to family, particularly my parents, as they are both 70+ and quite honestly aside from their age and health issues, they just don't 'get' why it took me so long to leave.

We (a collective we) know we stayed too long. But it wasn't out of weakness, it was out of hope. And sadly, hope is often our biggest enemy.

The part of my post that you highlighted is me in a nutshell. Sometimes, I think..perhaps it would work if we didn't live together..but I know even that would cause issues, risks..and I'm not sure any amount of work on his part could convince me to take even baby steps toward reconcilliation.

PM'd you Curt

I've started a new thread - over here

See you there.

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