Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - thread 29

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Bluebell Thanks. I generally am pretty firm on this point with him, but he is pushing buttons this week and I feel a bit bombarded since getting back from holiday. I came home to a number of messages and demands, and he's moved back into the area, so I feel pressured again. It's much easier to keep boundaries in place when they're a few hours travel away than when they are right here pushing constantly.

roundandround Sorry, I meant to respond last night, but was sidetracked. What are you hoping for? And I don't mean that in a flip or snide way, but are you hoping he will improve his behaviour? Is he aware that his behaviour is upsetting you? Most importantly, is HE willing to change his behaviour? Because, as you probably already know, his behaviour will NOT change unless HE does it. No matter what you do or how much effort you put into it, if he is not willing to change, he won't.

Sorry, I know that sounds defeatist, but it's something I've recently been reminding myself when I find myself thinking "Why does he do that? Doesn't he get that it's not appropriate??" I have to remind myself that no, he possibly doesn't get it.... or he does get it and he just doesn't care. And no matter how much I turn it around in my head and explain to him (which I refuse to continue doing), he's not going to change his behaviour. I have to change how I deal with it and react to it. It's a hard habit to break.

Thank you very much for messages of support everyone. And welcome newcomers; so very sorry you have to be here - but it's a great place for support.

A tiny connection on this thread is the beginning of better things IME.

When I started posting it was a massive huge revelation that my fw is an actual type, adhering very closely to everyone else's fws' behaviour. I felt shocked and horrified -and kind of tainted to begin with- to discover that I was actually an abused wife and found it hard to get my head round.

But I don't think I would have made the internal changes that are necessary to be able to extract myself, without this thread and all the comparisons and lightbulb moments. I realised it wasn't me, it was him.

I needed so much building up to start escaping. I think they zone in subconsciously on people like me, who have a kind of hidden but deep seated low self esteem. Ppl in RL wouldn't believe that of me but we're really good at covering up and that's the other reason we stay so long I guess. We cope and cover up.

Sorry long ramble! Am in bath with coffee. About to take kids out for day. Will post later. Thanks again lovely ones for support. Xxxxx

Ps let me quickly add- when I say tainted, I don't mean that in any way in a bad way about other abused people. I mean it was such a shock to really see myself- that the default view I had of myself was not really true and it was a shock to realise I was damaged. But having accepted it, I feel incredibly empowered and like a whole version of myself finally if that makes any sense!

Breathe I think that the part about "we cope and cover up" is very true. Everyone I know would most likely describe me as a someone who could cope with anything. I think to some extent that mind-set meant that instead of going to someone for help, I felt that if I worked a bit harder at it that I could fix his behaviour. Now I know I can't.

Stbxh has sent message asking why he has to see the DCs in a public place and not in my home. This is the second time he's asked. I cannot believe that I have to now outline basically to him that because he has, in past, repeatedly been aggressive and verbally abusive when visiting in my home that I no longer am comfortable with him having contact with the children or myself in a private residential environment. It's like poking a wasp nest. And seriously, he KNOWS why. Can we say "gaslighting" anyone?

I note that he didn't bother to "update" me. He has only complained about the conditions of the potential contact visits.

Alice you're so right about us coping too well, past the point where others would give up. It doesn't do us any favours!

I hope you get your xfw sorted out about visitation.

Shit I've served the papers. I knew it would be bad and it really really is. I'm the devil incarnate apparently I could go on but don't want to out myself. I know I should feel glad to have taken this step but I feel sad guilty and confused. He's roaring with pain and fury.

Breathe stay safe. Flashpoints, you know. This will be one of them. That's why I'm loathe to even answer xfw's questions about why contact is in a public place. I know it'll be a flashpoint and am worried about the reaction. Stupid OW should have kept him where he was. How inconsiderate of her. (a small part of me wonders if she dumped him because of fw behaviour but I am certainly not going to ask)

Hello all..sorry to have disappeared I just needed headspace to process stuff.

So I didn't call the police. I was a mess and by the time I started to pluck up the courage, I'd talked myself out if it. Minimalised it. Rationalised it. Made myself the bad guy. I felt ashamed of myself for being weak but maybe next time - if there is a next time - I'll call them.

Meanwhile stbxh has been polite and amicable after my threat to report for harassment. Contact has been breezy and regular and our DC seem happy with visits. Stbxh will have a flat close by at the end of this month and we'll gradually phase in contact visits there. Can't find any fault in his behaviour in the last two weeks. I get the feeling someone may have had a word with him and it's sunk in. I know he's back in touch with his parents who are divorced and managed amicable contact for him and his sister.

After my bit of a meltdown a couple of weeks back, I had a rough week. Then as I was picking up a bit this week, I've discovered that a friend I trusted enough to share very personal, sensitive stuff with (about myself, stbxh, my marriage and separation etc) has seen fit to spill it to all and sundry, predominantly ex friends of mine who sided with stbxh after the split. Now everyone knows my business, things I said in confidence. I feel utterly, utterly betrayed. Seems I can't trust anyone.

I'll read over posts I've missed later today, but in the meantime strength to all x

CurtWild glad you're okay and stress is at a low level at the moment. Nice for you to get a bit of a breather.

Alice - that was the "update"? Ha - ridiculous! Bravo for holding firm with your boundary! (Part of me was caving in on your behalf, just reading it )

Breathe - it is not you, lovely. It is a good thing you're doing for yourself (all the more reason for him to hate it ). Give yourself time; be kind to yourself. You're still in the thick of it - the guilt and confusion will go in time.

ROUND - I guess from his perspective, your H doesn't have a problem. Or wouldn't, if you'd just behave like he wants you to. Immature behaviour - yes, I often felt that my STBXH was stuck at around 10yo. Capable of appearing quite thoughtful and grown-up, but ultimately self-absorbed, arrogant and needy. Which is all OK in a 10yo, because it's natural and you know they're growing and changing...

You're welcome to our little group, whether you post every day, mostly lurk or disappear for six months at a time between postings. We're not fussy. What has made you go back in the past? For me, I could imagine it would be the loneliness. By separating from him, I removed myself from his social circle. I hadn't been able to make real friendships while I was with him.

And Curt - :( What a betrayal! Must feel awful to have your secrets paraded in public like that.

Charlotte actually he didn't ever actually "update" me. He'd already told me in an email about OW kicking him out. He'd already told me in another email that he was moving back into the area. Then he said he wanted to ring me to "update" me on his situation. When I said no, please just email the update to me, he merely complained about the proposed contact visit, rather than giving me any update at all. Weird.

I'm gutted. FW was moving 4 hours away but has now changed his mind. DD hadn't seen him for a month due to his behavior but wanted to see him before he left. Now its Daddy Daddy again. I know it will all fall down, yet again, but I feel like I'mtorn between letting her back into the hornets nest, or forbidding her from seeing him, damaging our relationship and creating a tragic hero.
Does that make sense I think I wrote that all in riddles.
I shed a little tear at losing my dream of him buggering off

Noregrets So sorry. I know exactly how you feel. Stbx had moved in with OW a few hours away, so things were much quieter and more relaxed. Now that OW has kicked him out, he's back in the area, and all the upheaval has already started. He's playing the martyr right now, alternating with being angry when I don't do what he wants.

Argh. Stbx has made a suggestion re contact. Whilst I appreciate that he is at least finally taking on board my decision to keep it at a public place, he is requesting it be near him at a fast food place - which involves me driving over there (using £ for petrol) and buying the kids (and ONLY the kids, as I'm not buying the adults food!) a meal. I don't have the extra cash, as I've purchased a few things for DIY I'm doing this week. I didn't mind shorting myself a bit to get the DIY done, as I hadn't planned on driving anywhere extra this week. He expects me to do this because he doesn't have any money. Shame he doesn't consider that I might not have the money either. Especially since he's not paying any child maintenance. No, I'm going to have to tell him it needs to be local to me, and if he doesn't have money, he'll need to either ask his mum for a fiver for transport or ask her for a lift. And he'll get stroppy about it. Sigh.

alice sorry to hear things have kicked off a bit for you. I suppose you'll get the 'I'm doing what you asked why isn't it good enough' speech from stbxh as I am. He's stopped calling, texts only. He's started setting a time aside to see them and sticking to it. He's talking about moving contact to his flat (when he gets it) instead of in my home.

In his mind he's now done everything I requested and now I really am in danger of looking like the unreasonable one. I still don't trust his intentions after he threatened to try and take DC away from me. What if all this sudden interest and superdadesque behaviour is part of a bigger picture that I'm not privvy to. He said he had plans and will always be one step ahead of me. And suddenly the unfaultable behaviour. I'm very ill at ease, extremely wary and at risk of becoming paranoid.

I also have absolutelt no one irl to talk to now as my trust (as fragile as it already was) is now completely battered.

alice do you think fw will agree to contact closer to you or will it be back to him accusing you of being difficult so he won't see them at all?

CurtWild I'd keep documenting it. It's actually good that he is sticking to texts, as you've got it all in writing, instead of phone calls. It's sad that when they do behave reasonably, we end up wondering what they're up to - we can't even relax and enjoy when they are being civil as there is always some ulterior motive for it. [hm]

I'm sending him an email telling him that I cannot bring the DCs to him as I don't have the money for it. He will need to come to my area if he wants to see them. Yes, he will most likely go ballistic, but he is living rent free, no living expenses as he is (I believe) living with his mum again, so I would think he could drum up a fiver for a bus trip to see his children. I think they're worth that level of effort. I guess we'll see if he think so.

I have a little money, but I need to hold on to it in case of an emergency. I can't just make myself skint down to nothing when I have children - you never know what might pop up.

Spot on! Others think we're mad - not happy even when FW is being reasonable. But they have no idea of the overthinking and paranoia that goes on behind the scenes. FWs like keeping us on our toes.

curt I don't imagine he will take the DCs. He's giving waffly 'I'll always be one step ahead' but doesn't actually have a plan. He's just enjoying keeping you worried. Not that it helps! His reasonable behaviour is just a cover up, and it won't take long for his old self to reappear, and reassure you that it was real. Do go to the police next time. He needs to know you mean business. So sorry to hear about the lack of loyalty from your RL friend.

alice good for you sticking to your guns. TBH I doubt he will come for contact - on the basis it's all about him, and he can't handle feeling like he's backing down to your 'demands'.

Noregrets He doesn't have a leg to stand on wrt taking our DC. He's never done any parenting aside from changing the occasional nappy, and right now he has no fixed address. I have more than enough 'stuff' on him, including having called the police twice last year for violent, destructive behaviour in front of our DC, he was taken away on both occasions but I didn't press charges.

But I don't trust him as far as I can throw him. And so I'm remaining vigilent and keeping every text.

alice isn't it great that they're getting to live rent and expense free whilst we trundle along just about getting by, without a penny help from them, and it still ends up being us who has to stump up. I leant stbxh a fiver last week when he turned up by taxi and hadn't brought money to pay with. I should have MUG tattooed across my bloody forehead.

I've sent him the email saying I wasn't driving the DCs over there. He's decided that he can't see them then. And has asked yet again why he can't see them at my house. Seriously, he doesn't understand that actually I don't have to justify that decision to him. He just keeps asking. I'm just ignoring.

alice I figured he'd say that from what you've posted about him in the past. Good for you, sticking to your guns..exhausting though, isn't it. Shouldn't have to be that way in the first place.

I'm feeling pretty deflated and defeated with one thing and another. Hope it passes soon.

curtwild yes, I suspected it too. I hate this constant sparring. I wish he hadn't moved back, as it's just going to be like this all the time now. Passive aggressive and prying. I'm tired of him asking over and over and over again why he can't visit the DCs in my house. why why why... because I said NO, that's why. grrrrrrrrr

do you think you're feeling the effects of the ongoing low level stress? you know, the "waiting for the other shoe to drop" stuff?

alice It would've been far better for you if ow had kept him wouldn't it!

I think that's what it is..it's not the massive stress of the last few weeks it's just like constantly waiting to see what he'll do next, like you say. My head feels full of white noise if that makes sense..something there in the background 24/7 that won't shift. He's also moving literally round the corner from me which leaves me cold.

If I said I have a feeling of impending doom, I know that might sound dramatic but I do not trust him, and I certainly don't trust his parents. They are the ones who taught him the ways of the abusive, manipulative, devious fw. Now he has them behind him, backing him (they've funded the flat for him), I'm beginning to feel outnumbered.

curtwild start lining up people who support you. And take safety precautions, just in case - no opening p the door to him at night and things like that. (and yes, would've been far better)