Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - thread 29

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Hello everyone, thought I'd meander over here, it's eleven months since I escaped FW STBXH, by and large I am happy and still feeling like someone pulled a lead weight off my chest (married 14yrs, 2 dd's 11 and. 9). I recently started counselling, which has been really helpful , I've all but stripped out everything from the house and will soon be redecorating.

But tonight I am angry and full of tears, there's just so much to sort out and FW only has them EOW despite living 5mins away and I am finding him a babysitter so he can party while I'm on call (working).

Words cannot describe how much I despise that man. He is a pathetic excuse for a man. I hate that I have to have anything to do with him .

Sorry . Just need to get that out. I am so angry. I wish I wasn't, but I am.

Please don't apologise, handy, I share your pain. I am trying to sort my house and garden, too, and it is an uphill struggle.

But are you saying he is going out on his EOW contact or not stepping up to help with additional contact when you are at work? Both are infuriating, because EOW means you do almost all the parental care. Especially as he is only five mins away, what is the reason for no mid-week visit?

For work, do you have anywhere else they could go? To be honest, I would ask a good friend before I booked a babysitter so their dad could go out. It is not up to you to facilitate his social life when you (if you are like me) don't have one yourself. No wonder you are upset.

Congratulations Charlotte, has it really been a year? Well done to you for dealing with it, in such a positive way, I remember when you were 'lost' at the beginning of all this!

handy how upsetting and infuriating- no real advice but just make sure you have firm boundaries, don't pick things up for him.

Thanks ladies. My friends are having the girls for me but I am so angry as is have been hoping to save those favours to book something for myself e.g. a meditation retreat. He already gets 12 out of 14 nights to socialise. Idiot. He doesn't see or phone the girls in between EOW contact because of his work (he goes to work v early and cannot do school runs). And he is not imaginative enough nor cares enough to try and see them in between. Tbh it helps me not to see him much either and the girls are used to it now, the 11yo is busy and always doing stuff with her friends, going to clubs etc. the younger dd is really not bothered full stop tbh. Normally I juggle everything just fine. But I hate (really, really really hate) making his new life (he is reinventing himself and has a whole new wardrobe and complete new set of friends) any easier for him when he already does so little.

Handywoman - I'm confused. Is he supposed to have them the whole weekend and wanted you to find a babysitter for part of it, or all of it? Is he completely cancelling his weekend visit with the DCs?

The weekends got changed cos of a change to my roster and he is inviting loads of people over sat night so wants their friends mums (my support network) to have them sat night/sun morning. I have tried ways to get us more coordinated (online calendar etc) but he is not interested. Next roster I get I will simply email it straight to him to work it out.

Not that my roster changes often. I basically work EOW. It's only difference because of a week's annual leave at half term which he was fully aware of.

Hi all, still no contact from FW who will still be stewing at my impudence by suggesting mediation. DD, on the other hand, is thriving now that she doesn't see or speak to him. I don't know what will happen from here, but I do know that I'm acting in her best interests.

handy sadly FWs can be relied upon for nothing, especially if they see it as helping you out. The only way is to get everything lined up so that you can cope without him. Certainly infuriating, but as time goes on you'll be able to look back and be proud of how you did.

charlotte I remember you posting a year ago, you were getting out at a similar time to me. Wonderful to hear how well you're feeling.

Am on call tonight so he has the girls. I am v rarely on call on a week night.

Packed their o'night stuff in cases as normal (they don't have any stuff at his).

He never collected them

Tried to sit tight. Not 'organise' him.

Eventually texted.

He eventually replied at 2040h saying he forgot ! (This not the first time). Could I drop them round.

When I got there he looked distinctly like he'd been asleep on sofa.

Handy, what a FW. How infuriating. Is there anyone else you can ask in future?

Re the other issue, next time he wants the DCs to have a sleepover so that he can party in peace (is it going to be very loud?), let him organise it.

Noregrets, I'm very pleased to hear that DD and FW are currently NC. That must be such a relief for DD.

Morning all. More fun and games from fw.

I have made it impossible for him to see our DC.

I am pushing for him to walk away so he's going to give me what I want.

If I wanted him to be in our DC's lives I would encourage him and invite him over.

I am to blame for all his failings as a parent.

Any good intentions I have are actually fake and deceitful.

I am the root of all evil.

So attempting to be amicable and facilitate visits with our DC, accomodating him in my home for those visits, running after him for solid visitation plans, inviting him to the seaside with us, offering a very cautious hand of 'friendship' at his request...

All those things translate, in his mind, to his statements above.

In short, he's still telling everyone I'm a nasty, vindictive, viper of an ex who doesn't want him to see his kids.

Fact is he's pissed off that I'm happy, he's pissed off that I'm doing ok, he's pissed off I haven't begged him to have me back, he's pissed off I won't let him control me anymore and more than anything, he's pissed off that I'm not stopping him from seeing our DC and that he has to make all that bullshit up to try and ease his conscience for being a useless excuse for a parent.

Luckily I keep every single text, and I have countless ones clearly showing how amicable I'm being, extending invites etc, and equally showing him choosing his social life over visits, cancelling at the last minute, insults etc. Should it ever come to court, and I highly doubt it will, but if it should, our correspondence will show he's still abusive towards me and that he's constantly used visiting our DC's as a form of control and manipulation rather than to parent them.

Attempting to not let him get to me but there are times when it's hard to just let it go, to just let him get away with everything he's saying. I was bullied mercilessly as a young teenager and I know the best course of action is to ignore, but it's not always the easiest course of action.

Sorry for going on a bit. It all feels never ending.

CurtWild it's difficult sometimes to ignore, but in the long run, it often works. I kind of think of them as a "bad habit" or "addiction" like smoking. Initially it's tough, but as you realise you can give it up, as the days go on, it's easier and you see the benefit of giving it up showing so clearly.

I've "gave up smoking" almost exactly a year ago. When I look back, I kick myself for putting up with the abuse as long as I did, but at the same time, I am immensely proud of everything I've accomplished since then. I am slowly fixing up the house, the DCs are well cared for and doing well, and I have friends (and some family, although they are not local) that are supportive of me.

I wouldn't go back to the way it was before for anything. Some days can be a struggle with various things, but overall, I'm happy. I'm also taking better care of myself now, which I think is a significant development, as prior to "going smoke-free" I was trying to keep everything together so desperately that I was ill a lot and exhausted.

Despite the nonsense that stbxh throws my way occasionally now, I have to say this - My life is so much better now, and I am much happier. I don't regret it for a moment.

(Yes, I got my new sofa today - feeling very positive as I'm doing a massive clean throughout the house )

My life is so much better now, and I'm much happier. I don't regret it for a moment

That's exactly it. And that's exactly how I feel. And that's what he hates and goes out of his way to sabotage on an almost daily basis.

I need strength. Or someone to tell me what to do. H is elsewhere, a 2 hours journey from here by bus/tube/train and I just don't want to go. He's called twice, demanded I come out, when I say I've got headache (true), its raining, can I come late tonight (which would be acceptable to me as a compromise) he cancels conversation. I'm supposed to be meeting friends for lunch 1:00 (he doesnt know this) which would mean I couldn't get there until v late. I just want to keep the peace but I don't want to go. He wanted me to come out last night but I told him I was going to yoga class and stood my ground, he actually thought I'd come out afterwards (leaving post 9;00) and I didn't even dignify that with a response until he called, 11:30, to ask where was I? If I don't present some sort of compromise situation to him he is going to get v angry. This SUCKS!

Ridiculous? I'm supposedly a grown woman... And I'm scared of making him angry. Because I don't share his hobbies/interests, today especially . Btw he made fun of yoga class and he says i have no interests. It is totally a control thing. Looks like I either : don't go at all, stand my ground and anger him, or go on my terms and anger him. Or- go on his terms, leave right now, and 'play the martyr' as my mother would say. Maybe I should go, and get angry at him. Then he would accuse me of being unreasonable and an ungrateful bitch. Other alternative is sadly to pack up and move out today, but I have nowhere to go.

Does he need access to that house, thats? Couldn't that house become your house, and he live in the one he likes more, in the country? Or does he have an inconvenient job to get to, or something?

This situation is our lives in miniature, isn't it? As long as we are doing what he wants, things are bearable - with him, but not to us.

for strength and a clear mind. Deep breaths and take your time making a decision.

Today I'm being messed around (again) by stbxh. He wants to meet in town. Fine, I'm going there anyway. But will he give me a time? No. He has no idea how hard it is to organise a 3yo and twin toddlers 'on a whim', as in when the time suits him. He thinks I can just bung their coats on and set off. They also get antsy and impatient if they get the feeling we're going somewhere but it doesn't seem to be happening.

So I either risky grumpy tiny people by getting everything ready then sitting around waiting for him to call/text. Or I get them ready, set off and risk having to spend hours in town waiting for him to grace us with his presence while my babies get more and more bored.

No win situation today.

He wants to meet in town.... do you? Is this for a handover? Name a time - give him whatever time you think is reasonable and then go home again.

Thanks charlotte . I'm on train, spoke to WA this morning... Priority staying safe so am trying compromise, he was going to be mad anyway so had lunch w friends, have had barrage of texts and calls asking where i am so i just keep saying on my way. So stupid. Hopefully maintained status quo. I have no idea if he's really dangerous or if I'm magnifying it all in my mind. I'm looking forward to Tuesday/ getting weekend over with! Situation with house is complicated, ideally he's f off to the one he likes better but this is really just about control. I'm tempted to try and discuss it with him but too scared. Charlotte what did you do when you left- tell him first or get alternative accom sorted and just go? I know it's different with young kids however!

So I arrived, offered to shop, walked to town and purchased nice dinner... Got into house and he's informed me that ' I have BO ' ...he says I smell bad. This is so ridiculous as to be laughable. I got a bit upset as I'm now trapped here with him and it was a totally mean spirited thing to say (it's not true btw) and I'm in danger of wanting to retaliate. I shoved my wrist under his nose and asked if it was my perfume and he told me that a normal person wouldn't have done that, a normal person wouldn't have got upset as he was just stating a fact, and it is his right to state facts.

This is emotional abuse, right?

Why can he not see it- that he's begged me to get here all day, now I'm here he just wants to pick on me? And he wonders why I don't like it? He is outside working on the boat. I'm meant to be inside cleaning and cooking.

No, not a handover, he won't take them on his own so it's all of us hanging out in town. I eventually text him that I'd be in town between 1pm and 4pm. He met us at 2pm but had to dash off within no time to a mates party. No surprise there. I shouldn't be upset but DD1 kept crying please daddy come to my house and he just blew her a kiss and walked away clinking 3 bottles of wine.

I hate him. I hate what he did to me, but most of all I hate what he's doing to my beautiful babies.

curt that sounds so cruel. How utterly awful. You can't put yourself and kids in that situation again. So sorry your DD so upset, it's understandable.

Sat here sobbing like an idiot. So pathetic. I can't do this anymore. I get stronger and he relishes tearing me down. Upsetting DD1, upsetting me, twins pick up on it and all 3 of them are restless tonight so there'll be little sleep and I'll be exhausted tomorrow.

I looked in the mirror during the week and began to recognise myself again. My skin looked better, my tiredness had faded, my eyes were brighter, hell, even my bags had packed up and left. Tonight I'm red and puffy and drained and feel like a train wreck again.

In the last few weeks he's given our DC 4 hours of his time. 4 fucking hours. They fill a space when he has nothing better planned. To him they're like toys to pick up and put down when he feels like it. I won't have my babies treat like that. DD1 was in pieces and I can't even tell him or he says I'm an evil bitch using our DC to guilt trip him.

I'm sat here sobbing my heart out for all the shit that's gone on, before I left him and after, and he gets to swan about like the wronged party.

CurtWild I know it's easier said than done, but (like me) you need to work at putting this aside in your head. Work through it emotionally if you need to, but then put it aside. It'll only tear you up inside otherwise.

I've had to put things in "fact form" for my own sanity.

1- Ex has no interest in being a decent father. Fact.
2- Ex has no interest in being a decent person. Fact.
3- Ex only behaves in a manner that gets him what he wants. Fact.
4- Ex does not care how this behaviour affects anyone else, including his own children. Fact.
5- Ex does not feel any guilt or have any measurable consequence (to him) over this behaviour so will most likely continue this behaviour. Fact.

There. Now you need to accept these as the fact that they are. Why? Because it's not going to change. You can go round and round all you like, dancing to his tune, coaxing him to see the DCs, going out of your way to facilitate contact for the DCs... and he will still behave this way. He will continue to shit upon you and your feelings from a very great height. Why? Because he can.

So how do we get around this behaviour and push him into being a decent parent? Truth? We don't. But that doesn't mean that we need to allow him to rules our lives either. This is my "rules" that I make myself follow, and I do struggle, just like everyone else, but it helps me.

1- I do not request him to contact the DCs. That basically hands your life, schedule, and sanity over to his safekeeping, which is hazardous at best. If he wants contact, he'll ask. No exceptions.

2- Contact will be pre-arranged at least 2 weeks in advance. I have a life and a schedule. The DCs like to have plans to do things with me. Therefore, if he can't be bothered to contact me 2 wks in advance, that's his loss. I am not going to rearrange my entire life just so he can be verbally abusive to me in person while he ignores or shouts at the DCs and labels it "contact." No exceptions.

3- All contact will be arranged either by email or text. Nothing in person or on the phone, as it cannot then be documented. It also means that gaslighting is harder for him to do, as I have the details written out. No exceptions.

4- All contact will be in a public place. No exceptions.

5- If ex is unreasonably late or abusive/aggressive in any way, I take the DCs home and contact is cancelled. If he can't be bothered to be there on time (without very good reason - such as fire, flood, or massive pileup on the motorway), and if he can't be bothered to keep his behaviour in check, then I can't be bothered to deal with it. We will leave. No exceptions.

6- Any abuse or harassment of any kind will be reported to the police immediately. No exceptions.

This all means that at the moment, ex and I are NC, as he refuses to cooperate and can't be bothered to request contact. He apparently is much happier complaining that I won't basically bend over backwards complying with his demands. Not. My. Problem.

My priority is my DCs and myself.

Sorry so long. I find that I can remain stronger if I outline a set of rules that I need to follow and write them down. Then I can just remind myself by reading through them when I'm wavering.

alice that's brilliant. Most of it is what I've tried to do with him. The response I get is 'I won't conform' 'I won't do as you say' etc..words to that effect. All very teenagerish. I need to 'woman up', I know that. And you have been and continue to be a massive help in giving me the nudge I need to do that, so thank you .

Day to day life, looking after DC's, ups and downs, finances, moving on etc - absolutely fine, no issues at all. Far, far happier in that respect. Emotionally..absolutely wrecked. I haven't admitted that before. How do I deal with that?

Not sure about the emotional stuff. I am, at this point, alternating between enraged at ex's stupidity and simply not caring whether or not he drops off the planet. How's that for a wide margin?

I am actively working on overcoming the anger, basically by accepting that he is likely to continue to behave this way and getting angry doesn't really solve anything. The last contact I had from him initially really angered me, as I just am appalled as his lack of values and how his parenting is lacking. But on thinking about it, I realised that if I allowed him to continue to enrage me, that it was actually ME creating stress for myself, not him IYSWIM. He is acting the way he always has - selfish, irresponsible, and inconsiderate. He's not going to change that. So it's up to me to change how I react instead.

Rather than getting angry, I just shrug and move on. Whatever. Really, just whatever. It's not earth shattering, it's not important, in the scope of things, he can prattle on about what he may or may not do, or he may get irritable over me not jumping through hoops for him, but you know what? I don't care. I really honestly don't care anymore. So I'm trying to just dismiss the anger and move on to apathy.

I suppose you can think...

"Ex wants me to meet him in town for contact." So, going by my rules, it'd be a no-go unless he's talking about 2 weeks from now. Shrug.

"Ex is demanding I answer the phone and talk to him about it." Nope. Not happening. If it's the house phone, I'll pick it up long enough to see who it is, and if it's him, I'd firmly say "I will not be discussing this. Goodbye." and disconnect. If it's my mobile, I'd reject the call. If he continued to ring, then I'd contact the police and make a report for harassment.

"Ex is texting me saying that I'm a shit parent because I won't cooperate with him." Shrug. Whatever. Do I really care what he thinks? Really? Pfffft. If the noise gets too annoying, put it on silent and report it to police for harassment if it continues.

I am a study in apathy as far as my ex is concerned. That is my new method of "dealing" with him. Apathy. I don't care. Whatever. Shrug. Pfffft. Move on. I have a life, I'm not going to be bogged down in this drama and nonsense. What. E. Ver. I'm working very hard at this, and it is helping.

Bottom line. My head space is MINE. Not. His.