Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - thread 29

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Seriously, alice either all these ea fw's are the same 'type' or we're married to the same person!! Stbxh keeps telling me he's changed..but I see no difference. He's still selfish, inconsiderate, arrogant, rude, unreliable, entitled, self centered and has no idea what commitment and responsibility means. His priorities are still shite, worse now than they ever were.

For a while the 'whatever' stance was working well for me, I'm hoping this is just a blip with the upset yesterday and his flippant manner in the face of a distraught 3 yo. I guess even hating him uses up energy I could be using far more productively and gives him far more headspace than he deserves.

Curt I'm a long-time lurker on the EA support threads and derive a lot of support just from lurking, but I'm not in your position so feel free to ignore if I'm stating the obvious or being naive.

It seems from reading your posts that yesterday's contact wasn't really about seeing the DC's, it was about getting you to dance to his tune, turn up at his choice of time, etc. Once he had done that (i.e. you had turned up) he had achieved his objective, so there was no further benefit (for him) from actually spending time with his DCs.

Is there any way you can insist he has contact without you? Say by taking DD and DTs out on alternating weekends? Or could you insist on a contact centre? Either suggestion could be presented as reasonable (reasonable to other people, not to him) attempts on your part to come up with ways to help him learning to manage all 3 DCs together. Or would the fallout of suggesting this sort of thing be too much to contemplate? If you are not present during contact then you might find ways to limit some of the behaviours that are causing you stress - for example with you present during contact he can just leave whenever it suits him, whereas if he's at a contact centre he can't just hand them back to you on a whim.

As I said, apologies in advance if the above is obvious/naive/just plain annoying...

Thanks mrbuster. He flatly refuses to see our DC without me. It's as simple as that really. He refuses to have a set day or time as that is me 'controlling' him and he refuses to 'conform'. It's either all of us or not at all.

Funny you should say yesterday being about him getting me to dance to his tune and once I had he was satisfied. Whrn I text him to say DD1 was upset about how he'd just walked away, he replied with -"Aww poor baby. I got everything I wanted from this afternoon."

Posted too soon..I think the main thing is continuing to control me. He has no interest in 'learning' to cope with our DC, he wasn't interested when we were together barring a bit of playing and cuddles. When we're out he's irritated by them behaving like regular toddlers..ie noisy or a bit demanding or clingy or upset. I lost count of the times he told DD1 to stop chatting yesterday. She'd missed him ffs, she had stuff to tell him and he didn't give a shit he was too busy wanting to gloat about his social life.

Aaaarrgghh.

CurtWild Maybe it's time for you to disconnect a bit more from this. Just because he's being uncooperative, that doesn't mean he has to hold you hostage to his whims. If he's not willing to have contact on his own with the DCs, then just tell him his option is 1- contact on his own with the DCs or 2-no contact. His choice. Nothing else on offer. And if he doesn't cooperate with day/time issues, then back to option 2-no contact. Nothing else on offer.

he can whinge all he likes, but just hold firm and ignore any messages or phone calls other than that.

It's looking like that will be my only option, alice. Which sadly means they probably won't see him. As it is he won't visit unless I contact him first. I'm guessing if I don't contact him at all then that will be that until he decides he wants to play at being daddy for a couple of hours. I'm a smart lady, or at least I thought I was, how the hell did I end up in this situation and with such a douche bag?

CurtWild Yes, probably true. That's exactly the situation here. But you know what... the quiet of not having to deal with the behaviour regularly is AMAZING!! And to be fair, the DCs don't really seem that bothered.

And make sure you keep any contact in a documentable form - text or email. Don't give him a warning shot across the bow. Just don't contact him. Wait and see if he even stumps up the initiative to request contact. And write down a few specific responses you want to give him when he eventually does contact you. And don't respond to any that are shitty, only respond to those where he specifically asks for contact, then explain the terms (he takes them out on his own if that's what you want), and any complaining he responds with just gets ignored completely.

It's like dealing with a small child, isn't it.

I reckon if I go NC again he'll give me the speech he did last weekend, the short version of which is if I don't contact him to see our DC, then I obviously don't want him in their lives so he'll just eff off and I should be aware it'll be my fault he did that. I mean wtf?! What part of it's the responsibility of the NRP to maintain contact doesn't he get?! Oh, I know, the responsibility part.

It really is like dealing with a cross between a tantrum throwing toddler and a stroppy teenager. I'm sick of being exhausted every time we meet/communicate.

Thanks alice, once again you've helped me straighten my thoughts

Not read the thread, in a very different headspace these days

Just popped in to wave at anyone who remembers me. Without you all I would not be where I am now

alice lovely to see you so detached. It makes an enormous difference. Nothing can drag you down when you stop holding on.

curt I second the above. His contact, his responsibility. It is so hard to not be sad for the dcs but He can either take contact like a mature adult who is seeing his dc becayse he want to. Or not.

Nn fail

charlotte happy anniversary

Nothing can drag you down when you stop holding on

I'm keeping that as a bit of a mantra if you don't mind?

I'm not even going to tell him I won't be contacting him again. That in itself is a big thing for me. Normally I would give him a warning. No point. Rational, reasonable conversation is lost on a man like him. I couldn't rely on him when we were together, why on earth did I think I'd be able to rely on him now he's gone? Stupid.

If he wants to see our DC, he knows where I am.

Peas (or would you prefer justice?) glad to see you. Hope everything is well with you. Yes, I'm detaching quite nicely now. Feeling much more like myself again. Long may it last.

One year for me this weekend. I took it as an opportunity to re-evaluate and strengthen myself.

the short version of which is if I don't contact him to see our DC, then I obviously don't want him in their lives so he'll just eff off

CurtWild honestly? Still looking for a down-side in that statement. So he f's off.. his choice. The DCs will be okay, you will be okay. Quite frankly, it's made life loads easier for me that way.

Honestly alice, he's stated that more than once. I told him that's his choice and he can't blame me for his lack of contact/interest. He then says he'll make sure our DC know it was my fault they lost their dad. I know that's not the case, but how will I ever convince them of that if somewhere down the road he tries to convince them otherwise?

I'm still frightened of him, aren't I. I'm still afraid of what he might be capable of. Bloody hell. That needs to stop.

CurtWild You're thinking of the children in a vacuum. Trust me - if you're there for them the entire time they're growing up and he just appears and says "oh it's your mum's fault I wasn't here" do you honestly think they're going to accept that at face value? As soon as they've spent any time with him at all when they're a bit older, his true character and behaviour will show through very quickly.

Raise them, care for them, and let him piss off, if he so wishes. The children will understand the truth when they get older.

You're right. That's exactly what I'm doing. I got them out of the marriage so they'd at least have chance of a decent relationship with their dad and a peaceful home to grow up in. But I didn't get myself out of it. I've let him carry on with the same old emotional blackmail and manipulation that kept me there for so long, only now he exerts it over me via our DC.

Bloody hell, I only said the other week in relation to his parents deciding not to see our DC but his mum telling me she'd make sure they know I'm a bitch when they're older, that by then they'll know me, they'll know I'm a good mum who put them first and was always there for them, so whatever she says, they'll know different. Why did I not extend that to him too?

These are the same things I'm dealing with here. It's just easier to tell someone else that than to tell ourselves. Clarity from seeing it without being enmeshed in it, I think.

I think that's a very sensible decision, Curt. Doesn't look like the DCs will be missing out on much if he does eff off. The thing is, you want what's best for the DCs, which is a great relationship with an involved father. Sadly, that's nigh impossible, but don't blame yourself that you kept on hoping.

Your poor DD1, wanting to talk and being shushed. She'd be better off not seeing his indifference. That's how my ex was with the DCs before we split up. These days, he's active and engaged (albeit with fuckwit undertones). Some days, I think it'd be easier if he just disappeared!

Alice, loving the "No exceptions" list! And all that pfffft-ing. :o

to Mink/Peas - hello, lovely, so good to hear you're in a better place. x

I think that's a very sensible decision, Curt. Doesn't look like the DCs will be missing out on much if he does eff off. The thing is, you want what's best for the DCs, which is a great relationship with an involved father. Sadly, that's nigh impossible, but don't blame yourself that you kept on hoping.

Your poor DD1, wanting to talk and being shushed. She'd be better off not seeing his indifference. That's how my ex was with the DCs before we split up. These days, he's active and engaged (albeit with fuckwit undertones). Some days, I think it'd be easier if he just disappeared!

Alice, loving the "No exceptions" list! And all that pfffft-ing. :o

to Mink/Peas - hello, lovely, so good to hear you're in a better place. x

Ooh, that's interesting. I always wonder how people accidentally double-post and I've just done it myself!

Charlotte That's my new addition to my basic rules, the "no exceptions." Because I would sit and think "but what if... " and now I just remind myself "no it doesn't matter, no exceptions." I know life is full of variations, but I've found that in this particular situation, clear simple rules are easier to stick to. I've written them in a notebook, and whenever I waffle a bit, I write it down, so I can reread the rules and remind myself, and I can look back on it later in the week.

Have you ever watched that Bruce Willis movie "The Fifth Element"?? In it, there is a character that is a radio personality and every time he gets annoyed or wants someone to basically piss off, he does the "zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz" thing and waves his hand. The "pfffffft" is rather my version of that, mentally. I quite like it; it makes me laugh.

Forgot to answer thats - sorry.

The thing is, thats, you're expecting him to think of you as a person just like him, with thoughts, feelings and reactions. He doesn't. He just sees you as a bit-part in the great drama of his life. Your role is to be the adoring recipient of his wisdom, graciously doled out to you. He told you you have BO. How can you not fall at his feet in gratitude??

:o

I was told I had bad breath. No, I was told my breath stunk. This was before I even married the man, glutton for punishment that I was. I believed him that I should be grateful to have been told (regardless of the manner in which he told me - which was not his fault, apparently, because he'd been trying hard not to say anything for so long). Also, I was then afraid to dump him because I suspected he would tell everyone my shameful secret.

Years later, sick of FW's smoking and obliviousness to the smell, I pointed out (in much more measured tones) that it made his breath smell. Cue much overreaction. Which is fine for him, because we are not the same and the same rules do not apply. Not in his mind, anyway.

To answer your question, thats, I told him first. I didn't have any escape planned and didn't move out for another four months. It was very, very hard. Someone else we know of just locked her H out and told him he wasn't coming in ever again. That might even be legal in your case(!), as your H has somewhere else to live. A solicitor would know.

I have watched The Fifth Element, but I've forgotten everything about it except that I liked it! I'll have to watch it again somehow...

alice you've been brilliant today with helping me put things into perspective and unscramble my brain mush. Feeling quite chipper tonight. Like I've drawn a line under something. Hope it lasts.

charlotte I was really upset for DD1 yesterday, she's doing so well with her vocabulary and to have fw just shut her down at every turn really got my back up.

I love the 'zzzzzzzzz' of that character in Fifth Element..like something is so far below his radar it doesn't even warrant him voicing his irritation. Love the 'pffffft' version, might have to create my own .

Yes, I'd do the "zzzzzzzzzzzz" thing at ex, but worried I'd convulse into giggles, which might undermine the impression.

CurtWild my ex does the same thing to the DCs - just shuts them down. He's not interested in what they have to say, that much is pretty obvious. It's sad, really. I do wonder if he will ever regret throwing them away like this. I'm glad what I've posted has helped you. It's scary how similar these men are, isn't it?