Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - thread 29

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I wish I had the backbone to sort this out... It's the weekend again. So that means being summoned out the the countryside again, he's been out there for a couple of days and I've been alone- bliss. I want to make that a permanent arrangement which I believe would suit everyone. Well I'm going but on my terms- activities planned for tonight and tomorrow so I won't be marooned like I was last weekend (not sure if anyone saw my other thread in which I left him but went back... due to situation, boat access only and if I took the boat leaving him stranded it makes me look like unreasonable megab!tch) I have to go out by train, but am not going until late because I'm getting my hair cut and coloured. Ive not done this for a long time. He was not pleased and said that was the sort of thing I should do during the week- I work full time at the moment. So he accepted my 'terms' and we are seeing friends tomorrow so I want to keep up appearances, no point in spoiling it, but if he makes me feel trapped like he did before...m Well I don't know what I will do but at least I will be able to see the pattern of trapping. Counselling again Monday, she says it sounds like a prison.

DS finishes uni on Monday , coming home for a week then off to see friends, I'm ridiculously proud of him and he's got a great job lined up starting September. Not a good time for domestic upheaval. Never is, of course.

noregrets just read your post- Great Leap Forward to accept that he won't change and to move on. Focus on dd, remember he is playing his own part in making himself irrelevant. Isn't it funny how alike they are. I too always thought h was unique- he keeps telling me he is! If only he knew

Noregrets Does your DD have access to a counsellor at all? perhaps it would be a good time to have her start some counselling. She can talk about her feelings, the counsellor can affirm to her some of the things you've been saying to her (you know, that it's not her responsibility to make sure her daddy is happy and so on), and the counsellor can be of help in future if your ex pushes things legally.

I'm also wondering if he's being EA that maybe you need to consider either supervised contact or a contact centre. The bottom line is keeping your DD safe both physically and emotionally, and if he's upsetting her regularly then it might be appropriate to take these steps.

alice it's been quite hard work getting someone for DD to speak to. School are good but not professionals. She has seen the school nurse, who seems to be the one with access to more help if needed. But in short they consider that she's coping well. And she generally seems to be, but is experienced in covering things up. After holding her for 2 hours the other night while she sobbed big racking sobs of guilt I think I might need to get them involved again.

Sadly I know that if i suggested supervised or a contact centre he'd just refuse. Tells me all I need to know really! And I don't think DD would be happy even with that, as she knows he'll behave himself in the short term just to get back in, and then go back to normal. But you're quite right - if I suggest that at least I can be seen to be offering reasonable things.

thats hope you're surviving your weekend. Have you made up your mind to leave? Having plans for the future can really help get through enduring times like that.

Noregrets If you offer the choice of supervised or contact centre, and he refuses, that's it. That's his choice then. But that's his choice. It'll hardly look good if he tries to haul you into court when he's refused offered contact, is it? This is exactly where we're at right now. I offered contact supervised in a public venue and ex refused. His choice, his problem.

While your DD might not be completely happy with that, at least it will allow her a bit of breathing room while you organise a counsellor or someone she can speak to so she can develop some coping skills and get strong again.

It sucks, it really does, I know. I hate that they can't just be an adult.

Hi, am posting under an old name. no regrets, I am kind of in the same place as you, accepting they won't change and trying to focus on me and dc.

But I just want to say it is still horrible because he still knows how to mess with my head and he does things which are intrusive and I just hate it. It feels like just when I get strong, he throws another spanner in the works.

I don't believe he has no idea what he is doing and I have no idea how to get him to stop. You think they would give up, but honestly, I think he derives pleasure from it. It feels like SUCH a struggle sometimes, like he is somehow physically depleting energy and I don't know how to stop it.

I just had a nice day myself and unbeknown to me, he and dc were there because dc just told me they saw me. Of course, it was a public place and they had every right to be there, but I feel invaded because they did not make themselves known and dc could tell me exactly what I had been doing. This is in the context of other stuff and I feel like I can't get away. It sounds stupid but urgh.

alice I've taken the plunge, and sent him an email saying I'm finding it difficult to communicate with him, and would be interested in mediation. Entirely polite and reasonable, sadly I know that will really wind him up. Now, as expected, I have a total rant in reply, 'accusing' me of having a boyfriend or girlfriend (erm he's put me off for life), and demanding 'his daughter back'. At least I feel like I have a clear conscience, I've tried to propose a way forward, and now I shall ignore the last message.

fabulous I think I recognise this name did you used to be another sort of foxglove as well? I'm not surprised you felt invaded. Doesn't sound stupid at all, gives me shivers down my spine. Does he live nearby? Are there key places you can avoid so you can be more confident he won't be there? Don't think they ever give up. It's like a rage inside them, against the injustice of the world against them. All you can do is think of him as a toddler in a tantrum. Obviously I'm preaching when I'm rubbish at it myself. lols.

noregrets, I think ignoring is the way to go. Courts, lawyers etc would see mediation as the recognised way forward, and you have made a clear proposal, so no need to engage further. I had similar with an email conversation, only his logic was so convoluted, I was thinking, do I need to explain again? My friend read it and said what I had written was perfectly clear, just leave it. But there is something very wearing, about it as it is impossible to have a normal conversation.

Thank you for your reply yesterday. I think that is partly the issue, he did not used to live close by and now he does. And he was doing something he would not previously done, so it is the thing of, he clearly can, he chose not to when we were together. And in all, there is other stuff which I see as manipulation and coercion, which I have now said, and he says, no, he just wants us to get along. So, I feel bad for keeping distance, but he is with dc and does not say hello. DC apparently said, there is Mummy and he made a joke saying, no, it is XX person. That will possibly out me but hey. I don't know, I just think the normal thing would have been to say hello, if you want to get along. There is no logic to it.

I am so sorry your DD is still being upset. I really hope you can get some support. Women's Aid have childrens' workers, have you tried them?

fabulous absolutely the kids should have been allowed to say hello, assuming it was just a coincidence that you were both there, seems a bit wrong that he actually denied to them tha it was you- that's seriously messing with their heads, isn't it?

I know what you mean about it being impossible to have a normal conversation... These people invent their own logic and live inside their own heads. I always feel so hurt when I've explained something, stood up for something, then it gets run over by a diatribe of viciousness. No point in doing the same thing back either, I've tried it and it just made me feel awful.

I want to share this 'epiphany' I had. I've started reading 'Controlling People' by Patricia Evans and she's written a section in which she illustrates how a users think by saying to imagine a child has a teddy bear which he imagines is his best friend, imagines its thoughts and responses, teddy always agrees with him, always has nice things to say, always is there for him. Then imagine teddy comes to life- great. But one day teddy acts out of character. Imagine how shocked he is, and its not his fault, it teddie's fault because he 'invented' teddy. Anyway that is a bad paraphrasing of the story, I'll try to find a link to it on the web, but for me it's interesting g to see things from that point of view, it really helped diffuse my anger yesterday (-and I had good cause to be angry).

Hope everyone's enjoying the sun today.

*meant 'abusers' above not 'a users'!

Morning all..sorry to hear everyone is having crap times with idiotic men who seem incapable of acting like adults. Stbxh has lost the flat further up the street from me, or so he says. I keep forgetting I couldn't believe a word that came out of his mouth when we were together, why on earth do I keep imagining I can now we're separated.

In the meantime he continues to show little interest in our DC. This weekend I invited him along on an outing because it felt like the right thing and I knew DC would enjoy seeing him. He was having a very important coffee with a mate apparently (same mate he's always having coffee with when he's supposed to be visiting) so couldn't join us. He missed an amazing day and a 'first' for DD1 and the twins - building sandcastles and having a donkey ride. They didn't miss him. I just felt a bit..I don't know..sad for them or sad for him..I'm not sure which.

Anyway it was a fantastic day and he missed out. I invited him and he turned it down. His loss. He text me last night saying if I'd given him more notice he'd have come and he missed out because of me. I just laughed to be honest. I invited him four days in advance ..more than enough time to tell his mate coffee was off the cards. Coffee ffs.

I replied thus - "I do not plan my days around your social life. If you would rather meet 'y' for coffee than spend a day at the seaside with DD1 and the twins, that is your loss. I wasn't obliged to invite you, I did so because I thought you'd like to share in their first outing to the seaside. I will not be extending that invitation again."

He sent a few nasty texts after that which I ignored. I'm learning to stick to the higher ground. But then it's only 3 months into our separation so I'm occasionally cutting myself a bit of slack.

Strength to all, whether you're still with him and want a way out or got out and are still trying to find your way. I'm learning. Slowly but surely. And still no regrets.

CurtWild Glad you had such a lovely day with your DCs. I learned the hard way that going out of my way to invite stbxh to extra stuff was a mistake. It either ended up with him being aggressive and nasty, or assuming it meant we were getting back together. Either way, it wasn't worth the aggravation. I've learned not to bother now.

Lesson learned alice. He's literally sent me about fifty horrible texts today. The last one telling me he's met someone and they're gorgeous, amazing, cute, funny, young, a 'keeper'..blah blah blah. Don't know if I believe him or if he's just trying to make me jealous. But I don't actually care which. I just don't care. I'm happy. And he hates it.

I wouldn't waste any time wondering about this "new girlfriend." I certainly don't about stbxh's girlfriend. If anything I feel sorry for her, as she'll eventually be in for the same treatment I was. They're moving their relationship along at breakneck speed, more fool them. But if it keeps him occupied so he's not hassling me, that's okay by me.

That's what I thought when he said it..bloody hell, poor woman has no idea what she's in for. And if she doesn't exist..oh dear..pathetic attempt to make me jealous failed spectacularly by my lack of response! Fact is I don't care either way.

Hello, lovelies! I've been having a break from the thread, but accidentally landed on thats thread recently and have been drawn back in. Actually, it's good timing, because I'm feeling I want to tackle thoughts about my past again.

I have just been reading back old posts of mine (which I have cut and pasted into a sort of diary) and I see that just over a year ago, when I was still with FW and very confused, I said that I didn't think I could be happy, in the marriage or out of it. How sad is that? I had no idea how happy and contented I would feel just a few months later!

I worry about the DCs a lot, though. They spend so much time with him (2 or 3 nights a week) and I have no idea how well or otherwise he is looking after them. Well, I know a bit: he seems to feed and clothe them ok; they seem to get very tired so I think they often go late to bed; they are late to school with him, but I'm not sure how much of the time and I haven't asked at school about it. If DD2 or DS start to make any marginally critical comment about their time with him, DD1 leaps to his defence and tells them they're wrong. DD3 doesn't like handovers and you can see her steeling herself to be brave.

In short, it's all things to worry about and not enough really to do anything about. I'm hoping he'll lose interest or move overseas but I don't think either is really very likely.

Charlotte, one of the things I am feeling is that I have been in a tunnel and I am just now beginning to find a way out.

I think your situation sounds difficult. DD3 was slower to settle with contact, wasn't she? 2-3 nights is a lot for a wee one, but at the risk of outing myself, DSD used to do longer and while she found it hard, her bond with her mum was undisturbed and she did cope, and was more settled as she got older.

I think possibly with the criticism, you can't really get drawn in, but give them tools to help themselves, So with the lateness, do they have watches and alarms? My DD at home sets her alarm and gets up. She also sets a timer for her reading time, so maybe they can take good habits with them and you address it indirectly. But also mention it to him? How cordial is your communication?

Both DC come back tired and I have noticed increased hunger. I think that is because they don't help themselves or ask between meals. I remember Dd being really thirsty, and I said ask for water. Turned out there was a jug in the fridge, but a four year old can't work that out!

That's great that you feel you're coming out of a tunnel, foxgloves.

(Good name to reuse, btw, love it. I was in my garden at the weekend, getting my first little harvest of lettuce from seeds I planted last month and remembering a day last summer, still in the marital home, when I spent a happy day - one of the first I had to myself - weeding the patio. I got a good sense of accomplishment, but within two weeks they'd started growing back. This year, though, my new garden's producing something good! It all seemed like a great big metaphor for my life now and then!)

It is actually a year ago today that I told FW, "No more." Wow, that was a tough time. I am so glad to be a year on. Still, that was a good day in my life and I'm feeling quietly celebratory. I've moved on so far since moving into my own place seven months ago.

As for the DCs, I should say that I think they're better off than before, because FW now spends time with them regularly. I think that's great for their self-esteem: they can now believe Daddy loves them. I think "tools to help themselves" is the way to go, for the most part. My issue with the lateness is that DS is being blamed - FW says it's his fault and then the three girls copy. Now, I struggle to get DS ready on time, but I think of it as my issue - he's 6! I am finding better ways to help him. When the DDs occasionally say that DS makes them late, I point out that he doesn't at our house, so I don't think the issue is with him. It makes me that he's being treated like that, though.

Just tossed out some rubbish, including a few wedding keepsakes. What's the point really? pffft

I packed all our wedding keepsakes away when I moved out. My brother paid a lot of money for a a glossy book of arty wedding photos with the sweeping statement of "The wedding of curt and x -together forever" emblazened on the front cover. It's stunning. We all looked so bloody happy and hopeful. I can't bear to look at it but I can't bear to bin it either..that would mean looking at it.

This is just ribbon and cake topping, and a couple things like that. I've still got the pictures, as I imagine at some point the DCs might like to see them.

Many more changes (positive ones) being made this week and last, and I'm feeling much more myself. I've had the advantage that as I've gone NC, so has stbxh. So much more headspace!

Good for you alice, glad to hear of positive changes . Stbxh has warned that if I go NC he will too, but he always ends up calling of messaging. He text me the same threat again yesterday. I just thought go on then, make my life easier! Longest he's kept that up is 3 weeks or so. It's a roundabout I'm a little bit tired of beng on.

charlotte, well done on being a year on and feeling celebratory, plus harvesting your lettuces!

I think with DC, I am guessing your e,H treats DS differently and the DDs pick up on that? The thing I might try and do is cultivate some teamwork, that is to say, if there is anything DS needs help with re timekeeping, then how can DD's help? In short, the four DC are a family regardless of which parent they are with and a nice family quality is support. Then the issue is not one of being loyal or disloyal to their dad, but supportive of their brother.

It is a difficult one, I was thinking about it today. For a long time, I had the feeling that DD was treated harsher than DSD, when she was here. DD would always come second unless I championed her, which was seem as stabbing xH in the back and not being supportive. But by separating, I removed DD (my dd, his step dd) from the equation; well, she removed herself, I offered her the chance to go visit him, she said no.

Sorry if that is a bit garbled, am v tired and not well. But wanted to say well done on the anniversary!

Thank you! And that's a great idea about encouraging supportiveness.