Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships....can it be 18?

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I am with arth he knows it bugs you so he is yanking your chain.

If he calls more than 10 minutes early, say now is not convenient call back in 10 minutes and hang up. if his is late either don't answer or ask him to call back tomorrow. he will get the message eventually.

unless it is genuinely convenient to let DS speak in which case let him. once ex realises you are not playing anymore he will get bored.

i am trying to keep any discussions with my ex to barest minimum. if he is late for contact then he has to come and get the kids from wherever I have had to go in that time or not see them.

he is enjoying this. don't let him.

It was all because he was so sensitive, dontchaknow.
So, I had to understand that scratches upset his willy psyche.
I and the children,on the other hand, being of no importance whatsoever stronger did not at all mind driving around in a car with knackered brakes, f*ed steering and bald tyres.
The awful thing is, I nodded and understood!!!!!!!!
WTF - my French conversation is never going to improve at this rate!

trust, here's the model I use for DD and ex-DH (who left when she was a baby and now has a second family). If she wants to do it, I organise it; if she doesn't, I don't. Does your DS want to talk to his father four times a week at a designated time?? If not, ignore. (Unless this has been imposed by a court)

Will come back to other posts later.

god I nearly had myself there. I was thinking hmn maybe ex wasn't that bad. he was quite safety conscious and never knowingly put us in danger.

then I remembered:
1- when bringing the dts home from hospital- he would not let me adjust their carseat straps to fit them properly. I had asked him to do it before we had to take them home but he refused. so i was trying to do it on leaving hospital and he bawled me out because he had to go and pick the older kids up and it was important to him that they were not kept waiting as he didn't want them to think the dts were more important. I was absolutely petrified all the way home because they were not proprely secured.

2- he smoked all the time with the older kids in the car. because it suited him.

3- he took older kids out walking to dangerous places in poor weather because he wanted to go and once he had decided he was not going to change his plans for anyone. they won't go with him anymore. (and we had some full on battles about this one- for which he made me feel like a total loon)

4- I came in from shopping once, put keys on hall table and turned to get bags off the step. the kids pushed the door shut and i was locked out. they were less than 2 and in the house on their own. so I had to phone for him to come and let me in with his keys. now I know it was my fault i got locked out but it took him over 45 minutes to get there- during which time I was trying to keep the kids in sight through the windows. when he got there he said he had stopped to have some toast first because he was hungry. I would think two toddlers in a house on their own was pretty urgent.

these are all examples where it was for his convenience (rather than deliberate malice)

also if he is in the park with the kids he deliberately makes them scream. a bit of excitement is good for them but he seems to actually enjoy them being frightened and says it toughens them up. once he span the roundabout so hard that one of them literally flew through the air when they fell off it. (partly I am sure because I was there and I have a total fear of roundabouts after seeing someone get their head under one..and I was just shouting for him to stop when she fell off because I could see her grip going)...now this could be written off as just being a boisterous fun dad but it is borderline.

I am all for kids being kids and I let them do some adventurous things because I think it is good for them and also I don't think kids need wrapping in cotton wool but within limits.

sorry long post. just needed to remind myself he was far from perfect.

I have not caught up with today's posts, but just wanted to say thanks all for the wise words. When the CAB were so unhelpful, I had started thinking that solicitors were for divorce, not separation, but that's silly as all the setting things up for our new lives is now. Feel like I've moved a huge distance from where I was ten days ago when I called CAB anyway, as that was Before The Conversation!

Thanks to those who popped over to my other thread .

ponygirlcurtis - it's really helpful to hear that my anger is valid in the circumstances. Yes, I am also afraid he will make the parting very difficult.

Fairyfi - yes I think I need to accept that I am going to get the blame, whatever I try and do. I think that being seen to accept blame for a situation that wasn't of my making has been very difficult for me, and that fear is now holding me back.

Leclerc - there is a very fine line between being patient and being a doormat, and I'm not entirely sure which side of that line I am!

I'm going to try to keep up with the reading because so many of your issues are so relevant. I can't reply to all, but just wanted to say to trustissues that you are NOT irrational for being unwilling for DS to be involved with OW and her kids. But you already knew that, of course.

Slight head fuck going on at this end... will post in response to others later sorry for me post - I mentioned I was going out with some friends, which I rarely do but these days he always finds a reason to make trouble so I find myself not going or having shortened outing. I see this for what it is and it's just fortunate that it's the end of relationship otherwise I'd have battle on my hands. He didn't used to have a problem with me going out (he never does; has no friends or life outside work and home) but in recent year or so he has made it more and more difficult. Anyway he's now saying if I want my privacy upstairs, he wants it downstairs and will barricade door between two. OK - and what about kitchen which 9is downsatirs, I asked. "Build yourself one upstairs" was the reply.

Obviously that's not going to happen. But it is unsettling. He's trying to find ways through my armour, ways to make me worried and regret splitting. he told me I put myself first and kids last because what kids want if I ask them, is a normal family not a dysfunctional one in a weird living arrangement. He said this loudly as usual so they could hear. I replied, "But if relationship has broken down and you can't be together, then that is impossible." He replied, "yes you have made that impossible" I said, "No, it is your unreasonable behaviour which has caused the split". His view - on thinking back, he has taken responsibility for his actions but I haven't for mine. Therefore everything is my fault.

Sorry long post. I needed the commune's wisdom to reassure me and untangle myself from spag head.

I am going out but will be back in Ye Olde Fucke Offe later on. See you later, lovely ones. xxxx

PS Bloom I read your other thread and was very impressed at how well and reasonably you are handling the situation. You are so clearly the grown up and he is so clearly the fool if you don't mind me saying.

Sorry, no time to read the posts since I was last on, but just wanted to say to breathe that that sounds just like H. My H also has no life outside work and family, and never goes out. Which means that I am rarely able to go out, and if I do he makes me feel so shit afterwards, or such a battle before that it is hardly ever worth it :( I feel so trapped and constrained.

bloom him blaming you which he Will because he cannot take responsibility for himself, is not the same as you accepting the blame. you are not to blame
he is. all you have to accept is that ishe Will never properly admit that because he is a FW.

If he blames you ignore, disengage and carry on.

No sane person will blame you under the circumstances.

Think of it like a job. if this were your workplace you could sue him for constructive dismissal! If there were still grounds required for divorce you would have ample.

But don't wear yourself out trying yo get him to accept blame or to discuss it constructively. if he does it is just a stalling tactic. Abusers rarely do anything that is not about them.

Fucking fucking fucking stupid TWUNT!

I'm,sure he is ma...we're here if you want to elaborate.

breathe, I think if he genuinely took responsibility for his behaviour, he would also take responsibility for the consequences of his behaviour, which are that the relationship is damaged beyond repair and that he, not you, has caused that. He would also, if he were a right-minded person, recognise that you have the right to walk away. If he smashed a vase, the consequence would be that it was broken. A few pieces, you might glue it together. Smithereens, there is no way.

determined doesn't sound good, are you okay?

Ok, you're all going to tell me I'm a silly cow and you will all be perfectly right...I got sucked in and I engaged...and now I'm in that horrible cycle of going over and over in my head about the past, and going over and over emails, and asking my partner again and again if I'm ok and I'm not crazy and if I'm a good person and if I'm reasonable...I'm so so so stupid. Here come the flashbacks and the sleeplessness....

*Um...yes, you are. When a calling time is set up and I am 10 min early or 5 min late and he is now not available for conversation; when now he is miraculously available at a multitude of times and days to include Skype; when the last people to offer me the opportunity to Skype with my son was your parents and you then did not follow on this opportunity at your new place of residence...That is bullying. That is controlling. That is manipulating. It's passive aggressive. When visits are scheduled and you then state the only way I can see DS is on your parents sofa in their living room; when offers of having DS come here for a week in the Summer are ultimately dismissed; when arrangements are made for a vacation there in the UK and you will not allow him to attend; when items are purchased for him and the response is "it's not needed, it's not wanted, it's the wrong color, its the wrong size" all because you wouldn't allow him to tell me what he needed or wanted...All bullying. All controlling. All manipulating. All passive aggressive. Whatever helps you sleep, preach it; believe it. As for me, I know your lies. I know the ugly truth. Twisting it? If I did, it would then be in your favor. Remember, I have the 5 plus years of doctors notes and prescriptions here. I have the statements from Ex-neighbour.I have the truth.

As for calling, Skype or any other form of conversation media deemed acceptable by you, here's my proposal. I have my phone 24/7. When DS is available and wants to talk, have him (via yourself obviously) send me an email asking me to call. This way, it's not dinner time, it's not TV time, it's not Wii time, it's not bath time, it's not any other time that he is otherwise occupied whether scheduled or distracted as a normal, healthy 8 year old boy. There are times though when my battery may be dead, I'm on a call or some other issue where I don't get an email immediately. Flexibility is key. Cordialness is a must. Let me know. Again, I'll call at 8:30 this eve. perhaps 5 min before so I can have the opportunity to speak longer, should he so desire. After this, I will wait for his email.

Have a good day.*

What is written in that email is a mixture of blatant lies, twisted truths, omissions of truths and pale reflections of truths...this I know..but I'm just sitting here saying to myself I'm not crazy, \I'm not crazy, I'm not crazy....

And now, DS has just gotten off the phone upset and in tears because exFWH has just told him that he is coming to London and Disney Land Paris soon and that DS could meet with them if he wanted...when the bastard has been told quite categorically that visitation has to be sorted out formally thorugh legal channels...now I have more fallout to deal with..I'm the bad buy who is having to tell DS he can't go. |that's it...I've completely had enough....ENOUGH!!!!

Sorry, it's all me me me...but I'm done, ladies I'm seriously seriously done....

Coming back to the PJ thing, though maybe should leave it, this is where you actually wonder if there is any aspect of the relationship which was in any way normal. I am wondering where it went warped. I am really sorry for the experiences which have been posted here, I think you are brave to share. It resonates in too many ways. He did think I was his posession.

Anyway, to the point of doing it all yourself, I am okay with this because I did it mostly myself anyway, with a constant, mostly negative, commentary from him. So, the worst problem is trying to turn off the internal critic which tells me that I just need to be more organised and that I should have done things differently if they go wrong. I am working on that, because otherwise, he may as well still be here. Nothing was ever going to be good enough, ever, even if we lived in a mansion, I was constantly available and everything was organised immaculately.

Keys DC2 did this, I searched high and low, even emptied the bins, turned out he had put them in a handbag I was not using!

Thanks to him and his fucking controlling aggressive behaviour, DD2 who is the current target overheard the angry conversation and has packed a bag and fled in tears. It is dark, snowing and sub-zero. She text me to say every thing was her fault. He hasn't even enquires if she got to her friends, if she's OK.
I have told him things have to come too a conclusion one way or another as I can't cope any more. How can you take all your frustration and fury out on your own fucking child!!

He is a FW, trust, delete the email first off. Then cuddle your DS close and tell him you are sorry he is upset, you would do anything to make it better, but Daddy cannot make promises which have not been agreed, the courts need to sort it. Do not bad mouth his father, but tell him in age appropriate language that his father should not be saying these things. He is trying to manipulate your son.

I had similar with DC1 when her dad asked her if she wanted to join his family for a fortnight holiday without asking me and when she had never stayed overnight. I had to be the bad guy and say it was something we could work towards but at that point, it was not appropriate. She did then stay overnight but has since decided not to again.

trust ignore. This communication is interesting only as a piece of FW BS.

You've told him the deal, haven't you? Now just follow min's advice of 14:52:21. This is a brilliant stragegy because you don't have to think about it, just follow the rules, which is great for keeping on track despite any curve-balls FW might throw.

determined is she at her friend's safely? I am guessing the conclusion is that he needs to sling his hook, but that takes time to get there. Don't know your story but wishing you strength.

Yes, she has arrived. Not that he has bothered to ask. Yes, we really do need to end this, one way or another. Its what I want. He is controlling and bullying and I can't waste any more of my life on him

Trust reported name again :)
Agree with all.
Don't read his emails.
Forward them to the lawyer, or ask a friend or member of your family to read them.
He is a nasty shit.
Don't get involved - for your son's sake.

Hi determined sounds like your time to be free is coming!
This can only be good

determined sending silvery tiger mummy strength your way, to add to your own.

How old is DD2? (if you want to say, of course)