Support thread for those in Emotionally abusive relationships number 7

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Financial abuse Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.

Still stressed, will I never be on my own with the cat?

For his latest, see AIBU.

Hi, hope you ladies are all well (or as well as can be expected under the circumstances!)

Hi Kernowgal nice to see you (sorry as well), you definately are able to see all your partners horrible behaviours - as the other ladies say it is easiest to leave sooner without ties. The guilt of leaving him and hoping him change compel us to stay, but without a genuine want to change from him - it is no use. 18 months is only such a short time of your life, give yourself 6m away from him - You will be glad it wasn't longer :) Wishing you well xx

houdini - So happy for you...It can be done, to go on and live a happy and fulfilling life after an abusive situation - hope your enjoying yourself :)

wrenner - When someone is abusing you, you *have to develop a way to cope, you would go mad if you didn't, I was very emotionless with my ex when we were together, with him I wanted to avoid the hurt so just switched off. Happy you are feeling more positive in yourself, it's is hard when friends don't get it (in a way im very glad most of mine don't - its not nice to experience abuse and in some ways you need to go through it to understand it). Vent here as often as you need to xx

Lala - Congratulations on your twins! A singular 3m old is alot of work - I admire you! You seem very grounded to be looking after yourself with legal, CAB, WA although I'm sorry you are in this position. I seperated from my ex whenn dd was 10 weeks - she's now nearly 8months. It is definately the best time as she will never know mum and dad together as a couple. Best wishes xx

sweep - how are you doing? Are you feeling any better?

pink :( hugs

Lala I couldn't picture leaving either. Have been lurking more than posting on your thread as I couldn't think of anything better than the other wonderful ladies had posted.

Sometimes when you can't imagine a conversation about leaving I think that's your subconscious telling you that he probably won't let you have that conversation. Either it will turn into a confrontation so big it's too scary to imagine, or he will manage to turn you around so that you are thinking the unimaginable.

Sometimes you just have to leave without the conversation part. You end up having to override your naturally reasonable and kind nature, which is really hard. The thing to try and remember is that that reasonableness, that kindness is the "chink" in your armour that he's going straight for. You cannot fight fair with abusive people, unfortunately.

Hi lala have been watching your thread (nothing sinister, I was up late, looking to see recent posts, and caught mathsanxiety's post on your thread.

Apparently IABU according to replies so far.

Had a weird realisation this morning BTW that it was about this time of year, five years ago, that I first "met" XP (I use quote marks because I knew him by sight before this - but it was the first time we ever spoke just as strangers meeting in a pub.)

Something I wrote in my livejournal just three months after this. He'd already moved in to my mum's house and was sharing my bed with me.

"There are things we do for people that we love that they never know about, and to tell them would seem wrong and almost like we were looking for some kind of attention.

Like how I lose sleep because sleeping in a single bed really doesn't work with two grown adults for very long, and I know he has to get up for work earlier than I do, even though I know I need the sleep more and he'll only moan at me having ten minutes' lie in."

Wow, I just looked that up after remembering it earlier and I'd totally forgotten about already knowing he'd moan at me for having a lie in.

But, yeah. The reason I remembered it this morning was that I was totally and :( at my former/younger self believing this was what love is.

Bertie that's exactly right!!! It will either blow up or, like every other big conversation I work up to, he will minimise it and shrink it!
Pinkpussycat - I can't see a post from you - what do u mean?

Kernow well done for recognising it already.

You have NO ties to this man: he hasn't married you, they aren't your children. Now is the time to take a good, long, hard look at yourself, (not beating up, just honest and soul-searching) as to why you agreed to take him on and 'save' him, when he treats you like an object. (I have done this SS after 20 years! Believe me, he won't change).

I bet you he was overwhelming and charming at the beginning? There is a 'Loser' list by Dr Joe Carver which I was pretty shook up by, as I have only just learned of this concept: that to declare overwhelming feelings right at the beginning before they know you is a BIG RED FLAG (I know this is what bowled my poor OW over as well - even though he denies he said anything!).

Get to know the wife is my advice and tell her you believe her. You will find your stories are the same. But you are freer: to go, not fear living on your own, and developing yourself so that you are attracted to more healthy people. I am KICKING myself that I dodged this work in my 20s. You cannot escape the karma bus.

[Poor, poor children].

Also: the two Lundy Bancroft books. Such an eye-opener. These men are the way they are because they don't want to be different. That takes far too much effort. There is always an idiot woman out there who will believe their declarations of love. I was told: I told her I loved her, because that is what opened her legs.

My anguished reply: well what is love, then? How do I know you love me? - got no answer.

I am so going to give my daughter the Lundy book when she is old enough!

'When someone tells you who they are, believe them' - Maya Angelou

We make FAR too many excuses for them! And believe our own denial.

I am 12 years younger than my partner... I feel this also adds another reason to undermine me. This morning he called me by my full name.. Not abbreviated version which I am known by to all. Difference is rather than secretly wish death I told him not to do it.. He said ok...

I must get that Lundy book. Am going to order it to my sisters address now she is aware of the situation.

Sweep- are u still in relationship? Can't see full thread from iPod touch!

sweep is planning her (rapid) exit....more strength to her and all those of you who are seeing your way through the fog to a brighter future!

5 month mark just gone for me. It's so much better than living with the abusive NSDH, but it doesn't mean that some days aren't really, really difficult...better but difficult.

abitwobbly: When I asked my DH what he meant by loving me, he said he always took great care to write something nice on my birthday and christmas cards. (Seriously.)

I have been 'dating' a Nice Boy for the last few weeks. We don't see each other much and we're both coming out of big shit relationships, so we are aware of all the dangers of leaping into another relationship. But there are so many things that it is teaching me...

e.g.

When I cry, Boy will put his arms around me and hold me very very tight and say 'it's ok baby, I'm here'. XH would stand over me, either saying 'Well how can I fix it?' or just walk out of the room.

Boy spends hours poring over recipe books asking me what I want him to make me for. Then spends hours chopping things and fretting about getting it right. DH has never cooked me anything.

The other day I started an argument just to see how he would respond (because I am still very crazy...). Boy just looked worried and somewhat baffled and held me tightly and tried to reassure me and everything was fine. DH would get incredibly angry (not that I ever needed to START an argument) and not speak for days.

In the car, Boy giggles constantly about his crap driving. XH would just get angry at other drivers and bang the wheel all the time (or tap his fingers on the wheel, which for some reason I always found really threatening).

Boy brings me CDs that he thinks I might like (and he is usually right). XH didn't let me listen to music because my taste was 'crap' and would play loud music in the house that I hated, and that the (nice, elderly) neighbours would find offensive.

When Sex Goes Bad Boy giggles until we are falling about laughing. XH would walk out of the room and not speak to me for ages. During sex we talk all the time and it is just NORMAL. XH required a zen-like silence for any copulation (and wouldn't look at my face).

Boy calls me 'my baby' all the time. XH never called me anything and never even used my name.

Boy makes eye contact with me and smiles. XH never did either.

Boy makes me a cup of tea in the morning and frets about it being the right temperature/colour because he wants to please me. XH never made me a cup of tea.

Boy and me cuddle all the time, for hours, always all night, and hold hands a lot. XH didn't like being touched or cuddling, which made him hot and uncomfortable.

When I'm brushing my teeth, Boy comes in and strokes my back and chats to me. XH hated being in the bathroom at the same time as me and would get really irritable if it happened, sighing loudly.

Boy thinks I am lovely naked. XH required me to be dressed like a Russian Hooker.

Boy tries to do things for me all the time and says "I just want be to SO NICE TO YOU!" which just makes me laugh. He makes me feel as though he LIKES me. He saw the Lundy book on my bookshelf and got a bit upset. I said my expectations about men were quite bad. He said that in a few years I would probably be needing a book about how to leave a very dull and boring man who just likes gardening and doing crosswords and doesn't have opinions about anything. :)

Anyway, I just wanted to write this down really, to remind myself of what a NICE PERSON is like and what a contrast it feels to the way things were before. I really didn't realise how bad things were with DH. I thought it was just normal compromising. But I was SCARED a lot of the time. I had to think so carefully about what I said and did all the time. It became so normal, and now things ARE normal, I realise how NOT-normal it was before.

Rambling really...hope you don't think I'm bonkers.... xx

RAMBLE MORE!

I just love the comparisons, really. Those of us who aren't touched and talked to nicely (YKWIM) really do want to hear that it can be real.

Thebighouse, that is so lovely xxx

I am really blue today. Really struggling.

OK! (self-indulgent)

I feel a bit MAD because it's all so soon after I've left! But I guess that's what triggered my leaving and realising...

He asks if he can run me a bath when I come back from exercising. When I'm in the bath he comes in and asks me if I'd like a drink, and then he frets that he might have mixed it wrong, which I think is very sweet, and then he sits on the toilet and talks to me. Then when I'm finished he wraps a towel around me and kisses me on the nose. Well obviously XH never did any of those things.

Whatever I'm wearing, he tells me I look nice. He never makes me feel like a sexual object. When I put my pyjamas on, he tells me I look all warm and cuddly. Obviously XH hated pyjamas....

Boy says things like 'Look how tiny and beautiful you are!' even though I am clearly a middle-aged woman who is neither of those things. but I almost start to believe it...

Boy doesn't care if we are in bed and no one orgasms (XH absolutely required a 1-all result or would get angry). He says things like 'I get to cuddle you! My life is FANTASTIC!'

When we are talking, Boy strokes my arms or legs all the time (I love this) and he doesn't even realise he's doing it. Obviously for XH, that would fall into the 'irritating touching' category. (I remember whe I was horribly pregnant begging DH to rub my feet and he refused!)

When I came downstairs this morning (he had left for work) he had left a post-it note on my kitchen counter which just said I ADORE YOU. (And it wasn't even my birthday. HAHA.)

To be honest though, he is: Just. Plain. NICE.

BigHouse- that?s so lovely. I hope things go well with you and Nice Boy, there are a few of us on here who might like to know at some point in the distant future if he has an equally Nice Brother

You don't sound bonkers at all, although for me at the moment, I feel like all those things of only happen in films and just don't happen in real life. Would love to get to the point again where I believe that men and women can live happily together in long term relationships. At the moment I think that marriage is an utter sham and only serves to keep women tied to men that probably hate them on some level. And I hate that I feel that way. I used to be such a romantic, believed that there were two halves to every whole and that when you found your other half you'd be happy ever after and all that. I hate him for squashing my faith in people like that. I remember that a while ago I asked H what he loves about me. He couldn't come up with a single thing. Apparently he "just does"

Sweep- I've been silent on this thread for a week or so but have lurked, can't remember whether we've posted in response to each other before but wanted to say hi. Whats got you so blue?

I am having a bad time too. Since I went to see a solicitor for an initial consultation really, it made it so much more probable. And I feel like I'm giving up on my marriage which is something I've always believed in so so strongly (see above paragraphs!)

I am struggling at the moment to convince myself that the things I am unhappy about are really reasonable to be thinking about leaving him over. We have had a difficult week or so, I had a sort of mad moment on Wednesday night where I got really cross with him, and told him how desperately unhappy I was, how I feel such massive pressure from him to be reasonable and tolerant and that for once in my bloody life I want to be unreasonable and intolerant and demanding and stroppy, and he can be the tolerant patient forgiving one. He looked utterly baffled. When I said that sometimes I wonder if we'd be better off divorced because we seem to have such different opinions on everything these days, the pain and hurt on his face was so clear and it was not something that could be faked. He said that he's felt in the last couple of weeks that I've sort of given up- and I guess he's right. But the way he was also talking was as if he felt sorry for me because I had a problem, and he wanted to comfort me about it without realising that he IS the problem. He had chosen to ignore that he is the reason I am upset, and that me giving up in his eyes = me not giving in to his moods or sulks or demands for clean socks or lifts home from late nights or some other such nonsense that he believes is my responsibility.

Since then we have also had a major row where he basically told me I needed to lose weight and that I was a disgrace for not wanting to address this at his instruction, that my current low mood and obvious distress could be improved if I did a bit more exercise, lost weight and basically conformed to his ideal. Now he's probably right, those things (apart from the conforming) probably WOULD help me feel better. And so he will tell me that the argument was my fault because he is just looking after my best interests and I am cantakerous, stubborn and ungrateful for not wanting him to make such hurtful comments. He asked whether he was ever allowed to voice an opinion about my weight to me and I told him that unless it was out of concern for me, then no he bloody well couldn't. He was supposed to love me for all that I am as per our wedding vows after all- but then he has told me before in relation to an argument about him having enough money to blow on a £25k car and me not having lunch money, that the "share all my wordly goods with you" bit in the marriage ceremony is not real, "wedding vows are just words you say, they don't mean anything".

Plus last night I felt really pressured into having sex because he was obviously feeling in the mood to show me he loved me, as this is what sex is for him, its how he shows me he loves me. I have tried to explain that its not like this for me, I want to feel loved before I am ready to have sex with him. But he conveniently ignores this, and to be honest is probably too late if he does try and be nice to me because I doubt his motives if he's unusually kind, and think that the reason is only because he wants us to get "busy". So I gave in last night because to have said no would have been an in your face rejection (he's been away for the weekend and always expects coming-home sex upon his return, like he's marking his territory or something vile) and at the moment I am trying to go through the motions so I can think properly- it would have lead to days of sulking if I'd said no. And BigHouse I SO SO SO understand the Russian Hooker thing! Last night said I did not want kinky stuff just straightforward normal vanilla thankyou very much, which he finally accepted but I so so want to have a bonfire of my outfits and accessories! .

But, because he is being so attentive in other areas I feel like I am the one creating a general air of malaise if I continue being a bit distant and "detachful" (another new EA word coined?!) - he is trying so if I don't reciprocate its me causing the problem. Ten days or so ago I felt so resolved and strong and was planning on telling him I wanted a divorce, but now? I feel like I've taken a giant leap backwards. It's like I am telling myself that my potential for hurting him trumps all of the mean things he is doing to me, and I don't know why I should feel that way. I don't know how to break the cycle.

Gosh sorry this is so long. I have absolutely nobody in RL to talk to about this and everything is so bottled up that I am utterly desperate for someone to talk to about this- if anyone has made it this far, thanks for being there to read it. Just writing it helps order things in my head, it makes me think about it a bit more objectively.

Plus H is a bit of a cyber wierdo so can't post from home as worried he will see and wasn't in work end of last week so have a lot of days worth stored up! H did spit something vile about knowing I had my little "virtual cronies" to talk to but I just completely ignored it, we were mid-row and I wasn't about to go validating his suspicions.

IWillBeFree UpsideDownBoyYouTurnMe- how are you? Been thinking about you. x

Evacuation all i can say is you have just completely explained my head!!! You aren't alone!!!!!!

I am having a bad time too so sorry EW.
I feel like I'm giving up on my marriage I am personally convinced that abusers pick on people who make commitments with their whole mind, body and soul. You have laboured at this marriage...has he?? So who gave up, or maybe never got started??

I am struggling at the moment to convince myself that the things I am unhappy about are really reasonable because we learn to see everything through a filter of "OK ness" and don't know what reasonable is any more (see bighouse's post above)

I got really cross with him, and told him how desperately unhappy I was, how I feel such massive pressure from him to be reasonable and tolerant we play the role assigned because we can't rely on them to be either of those things. He looked utterly baffled because it is all about him, not you.

the pain and hurt on his face was so clear pain and hurt for himself, or for you who are expressing the pain of your soul??

He said that he's felt in the last couple of weeks that I've sort of given up- so it's your fault (again???) when did he give up..day 1, year1, year5 when DCs came along?? HE'S WRONG!!

But the way he was also talking was as if he felt sorry for me because I had a problem,he's scared you're going to rock the boat
and he wanted to comfort me about it without realising that he IS the problem he wanted to create enough fog and confusion so you will forget that he is the problem.
He had chosen to ignore that he is the reason I am upset, of course he did...he is never in the wrong!! It's always you

basically conformed to his ideal.rubbish, you should be his ideal whatever you look like, and he should help you not insult you. You wouldn't feel better about yourself because he would still denigrate you and you would have done it for him not yourself

Plus last night I felt really pressured into having sex because he was obviously feeling in the mood to show me he loved me he's objectifying you, not loving you, he wanted sex and it wasn't about showing how much he loves you...it's about possessing you and keeping you under his thumb.

I don't know how to break the cycle keep posting and detaching. Not fully giving yourself is not wrong, you are assessing the situation prior to decision making. Resist the urge to submerge back into the abuse fog..

Gosh sorry this is so long. Fantastic...get it all out and have a jolly good look at it!!!! You deserve to have the space!

stay strong and remember who you are....
with lots and lots of love from a "cyber crony"!!!

:( EW especially and :( about you having a bunch of kinky clothes you do not want to wear. That is just horrible.
He can just shut the f up about your weight, too.
If it helps, I had a sort of epiphany on Saturday.
After FWH being a hurtful tosser, I did not engage in any criticism of his fing awful behaviour. He had already started saying 'but I didn't do anything'...
I ignored him completely - really ignored, even in my head - and breathed deeply and focused on MY feelings. I realized just how hurt and angry and sad and frustrated I was feeling.
And yes, I realized [Duh emoticon] that that is NO way for anyone to be feeling most of the time. end.
There is no point at all engaging in a
'you did this ...'
'Oh no, I didn't';
Oh yes, you did' conversation.
That is what they want because those conversations just turn your head to mush.

Ah thank you Wrenner- but boo that we're in the same boat. Why do we find it so hard to put ourselves first? I'm not meaning to sound martyrish, but if my husband can do it why the eff can't I? I like to think that this is because I'm concerned for other people and how my actions impact on them but I think I am just a coward really. It would make it very easy right now if I was just to fade away and be meek and compliant forever more and put my aspirations, hopes and dreams into a little box and chucked them off the nearest bridge.

A really good friend of ours died unexpectedly in January and he and his wife had such a strong, obviously affectionate loving and mutually respectful relationship-at his funeral she very bravely talked about their love for each other and how he lit her world up. She said it was like seeing in colour when they were together when the world was in black and white at other times. I am scared that I will never have that feeling of being loved and giving love. But at the same time who am I to expect an easy life? Mine is only one life out of a couple of billion on the planet and maybe mine is jsut one that isn't meant to matter. I'm not suicidal or anything as severe as that but just feel totally resigned to being unhappy for the rest of my life. This started when I went back to work after having dc2- I realised that there was nothing to look forward to for 30 years, until I retire. There were no "high points" on the landscape- such as the joy our new baby had just brought. (nearly 4 years ago now tho!) The thought of this being my life for another 30 years, horrifies me. And then I'd have to spend my retirement squashing myself into an even smaller insignificant space on this earth just to accommodate h and his expectations. I can feel my soul turning grey and ashy at the thought of it. But I am such a coward and leaving him terrifies me, because I know how much it will hurt him, and I know how much he will cry and sob and try and persuade me to stay- and I feel like I am an apology of a human being for trying to remain unmoved by this.

Evacuationwarden every life is meant to matter, including yours! x

EvacuationWarden - Have missed your posts, noticed you were feeling a bit wobbly and uncertain in your last post.
I am so sorry thatyou are struggling :(
Can I just say you do not deserve to be feeling this way. Your husband probally doesn't even mean to be doing the damage he is doing to you either.
The fact is - he is still doing it. He can't help himself, he knows no other way to behave.
You are feeling low and uncertain of yourself because he has put you there.
You don't have to let him keep you there.
The way he treats you is not right, and only you can change it.
Don't doubt yourself, you are deserving of a happy life.
You may only be one in a billion but to your dc1 and ds2 - You are their god, be the confident assertive mother they deserve and that you are capable of and don't let your husband (who is a bully) lead you to believe that you are anything less. Best Wishes xx

My NSDH is abusive, and he sort of gets it, sort of doesn't. Doesn't want to look at it in case he has to change. He loves me, and hates me, and has the same relationship with his absolute witch of a mother. After 20 yrs I am giving up banging my head against a brick wall. It almost doesn't matter WHY they do it, they do it anyway...