Support thread for those in Emotionally abusive relationships number 7

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Financial abuse Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.

Darn..posted long practical list for you sweep on your thread...and the internet ate it...will try again later.

same here fool it must have been a MN gremlin

sweep you don't need any proof! just the knowledge you are better off without him

I've had the predictable entitled text reply.

Van is legal, "you can't stop me taking my children away". No law to say I have give address.

I'm thinking about the safety of our dcs.

Lots of things are not illegal but you have to use your brain to think is this safe for dcs.

You use your love and concern for dcs to make decisions for them to keep them safe. It seems like he doesn't have that love and concern.

The legal helpline said I can stop him taking them because of the seat belts.

a1b2 my quick googling on CamperVanLife forum would suggest that IF there are seat belts they must be forward or rear facing and a child under 12 must have an appropriate seat with the belt. Side facing are not approved.
If there are not any rear belts fitted in a pre 2001 van that is legal BUT the insurance may not permit carriage of passengers in the back. You could ask him whether his insurer is aware he is intending to carry children unsecured?

and even the address thing, though no actual law, usually with legal contact cases, it's reasonable to require it.

He hasn't got very sophisticated thinking.

To him, something is either right or wrong (and to him, he is always right and everyone else is always wrong.)

Thanks little, never thought of the insurance WRT children unsecured.

Have to think of putting it to him how anything will effect him. That's all he understands. (e.g he could get into trouble re insurance)

although I have a feeling he won't say "fair enough, I won't take them then"

But still need to point it out to him.

He's never going to be happy. You are spending a lot of time and energy trying to make it acceptable to him, Make it acceptable to you....and be straight and direct to him. the response will be the same entitled one anyway.

You said you would like the DCs to go on holiday and have a fun time with him...is this true? Or, like me, is it what you feel you should want but don't actually??

I think a1b2 is trying to be pragmatic here, by getting him to abandon the camper van idea for his own selfish sake, since he won't consider anything else.

What now? Another text?

I would like them to have a nice, normal father, to go on holiday and have a fun time with. I think that's it.

Even if he had insurance it still wouldn't be safe.

And even if he abandoned the van, then I don't feel safe letting them go overnight with no address.

Maybe that's anxiety, maybe it's I don't trust him with supervision properly (justifyably, due to previous actions) and it's worse when it's overnight and several days.

Perhaps it's picturing myself saying to the police if they don't return because of an accident (either in camper van or otherwise) or him keeping them (unlikely I know), and they ask his home address and where did they go and I have to say "I don't know".

Oh and I would love a four day break, it's not I don't want them going away from me at all)

Bobits thank you so much for that poem. I've never thought about the words too closely in the past, but it has touched a nerve here this morning and I think I will be printing a copy off to keep in my purse! Its absolutely spot on!

I would also like my DCs to have a nice normal father to have fun with .

what about pursuing supervised contact whilst he is unwilling to disclose his address?? Safe and time with DCs.

yes that's right pink he won't consider anything but his own selfish sake WRT anything really.

I too have had comfort and strength from that poem, particularly

if you can keep your head when all around you
are losing theirs and blaming it on you

atm they see him once a week or so in the daytime at weekend, little trip out type thing, so they do have contact. But feel bad don't know his home address.

a1, but if he was a 'nice, normal father' you probably wouldn't have split up, would you. Suspect most of us are in that position, to a greater or lesser degree. Nowt wrong with thinking it! I knew my NSDH was a shit husband, but when he became a shit father I had to change things. There is a saying that has helped me when I wish that people were different/would behave more reasonably:
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and it annoys the pig".

Dear a1b2,
I had similar dilemma recently - not re a camper van - but to do with a contact arrangement. Because situation was getting muddy and my gut reaction was to row back.
Are you in email contact with the ex? If you can write formal, legal-style letter explaining the various points as to why this whole thing isn't going to happen then you have proof and a trail of how arrangement broke down. Worse he can do is take you to court and someone else will be the judge of whole thing. But no one should think it's ok to put child in potentially dangerous situation - use what legal advice line told you.
If you can't relax and think children are safe and you know where they are and when they'll be back then you are going to be anxious the whole time, so go with your gut reaction - if there is no court order, there is no earthly reason why you have to do anything.

OK, sleeves up time again...

Black and white thinking here is the only way to go.

If you want decent, normal fathers for these children, you are going to have to re-marry...

These men will NEVER be normal. Give up on that idea. You are wasting grey matter in wishing they were.

a1b2 - I'll agree with strewel, but not on the long winded legal stuff. Short sharp and to the point. NO negotiation. You tried it, it didn't work. Time to get THICK (as they say in Ireland) and dig your heels in.

TELL him that there will be NO holiday. Full stop.

When he can prove he has made suitable arrangements both for transport and address ONLY then you will discuss the issue, but until that time has come, you will suspend ALL visits. He is of course welcome to take you to court.

There is no lose position for you here. You get an address, you can get him for CSA, you get him to sort the camper/insurance etc out then your kids will be safe and you will get a break.

I wanted to get myself a Land Rover Defender (the jeepy one) but the rear seats are side facing, kids under 12/with a booster are NOT allowed to use the seats under any circumstances. They would not be protected at all in the event of a smash. My son would only ever be allowed to use the front seat, until he's 12. He of course would kill to use the side facing back seats, due to the novelty factor, but I checked this out, you can't put small kids in these situations.

A1b2 he wants to take them in a vehicle with no seatbelts .My god, he is stupid.

parsley love that pig saying. Sums it up perfectly. Another fridge magnet?

sweep, like lots of people have said it was when i was toldhow my ex was absuing my dc by abusing me. everytime he kicked off in front of her she would go quiet and stare. she was taking it all in and perhaps starting to think this behaviour was normal.
i thought the same as you, it´s hard to prove..but actually, things have really improved and i found teh police so far have been really supportive. they now know they have to take things seriously.
please ring womens aid they will help you draw up a plan of how to leave and keep you safe. xxx