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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

I need a quick yes or no answer about whether XP can take our son without my consent

167 replies

drasticpark · 12/10/2011 12:33

Brief history : DS age 10 stays with XP 2 nights per week and should go there tonight but XP cannot collect him from school today so I have made alternative arrangements. XP says he's coming to the house to collect him later although I have asked him not to. I have told him he can collect him from school tomorrow instead. XP is now very angry with me. I am being interviewed by the police at 4pm because XP threw a dog crate at me last week and it fecking hurt. He may be arrested for assault. I don't want him near me.

Soooo, if XP turns up can he just take DS? He does not have Parental Responsibilty (if that's of any relevance).

OP posts:
SephreniaRidesABroomstick · 12/10/2011 12:44

I may be completely wrong here but, as far as I know, if he hasn't got parental responsibility, he can't just waltz in and take your DS and you can call the police if he tries it.

Somebody more knowledgable should be able to confirm or deny that. I hope you're okay though

buzzskeleton · 12/10/2011 12:51

Call the officer dealing with your case. I wouldn't have thought he can without PR or court-agreed access.

Original poster
drasticpark · 12/10/2011 12:57

Thank you. No court-agreed access in place. XP says he will tell DS that I am preventing him from seeing him but I'm trying to be reasonable, ie. he can collect him from school tomorrow. I don't want him at the house. I will ask the officer who is coming later.

OP posts:
sunshineandbooks · 12/10/2011 12:58

If he doesn't have parental responsibility he can't. He can apply to the courts for it and would almost certainly be granted it, but that process takes time and definitely wouldn't happen quickly enough for him to turn up tomorrow and insist on taking your child. My XP did have parental responsibility but I was still able to get the police to remove my children from him and bring them to me because of DV and the question of their safety.

Is this the first instance of your XP being violent? If it's not, I would question whether your DS is safe spending two nights a week with him. Make sure you proceed with charges against your XP for the crate incident. You have to make it absolutely clear that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated or he will readily use intimidation to get his own way all the time.

I would really advise you contacting Womens Aid, even if you feel this is an isolated incident. They can answer all your questions and give you some really helpful advice.

Good luck. Smile

Snorbs · 12/10/2011 12:58

I don't think he can insist on picking up DS under the circumstances.

Just to confirm, when he originally said that he couldn't pick DS up from school, did he ask at the time if he could pick DS up later? Or did he say that he wasn't going to see DS today and then later changed his mind about picking him up?

By the way, well done on going to the police. You're doing the right thing.

incognitofornow · 12/10/2011 13:01

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buzzskeleton · 12/10/2011 13:02

Even if he did have access, I don't think he could insist on picking your ds from your home - you've provided a more than fair alternative.

Definitely talk to the police and perhaps get some legal advice about whether you can have him barred from approaching you directly.

GypsyMoth · 12/10/2011 13:03

Can't your ds just walk down the road to meet his dad? Not come anywhere near the house?

This is silly!

incognitofornow · 12/10/2011 13:04

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miniwedge · 12/10/2011 13:06

Why can't he pick the child up later if he cant make it to the school? You said yourself that he should be having ds tonight.

Original poster
drasticpark · 12/10/2011 13:07

I have advised him many times to get PR and I would not obstruct that. He is lazy. I don't believe he poses a risk to DS in terms of violence although he is a poor parent. But that is none of my business.

He asked if DS could walk home from school, let himself in and he would collect him an hour later. I said no and that I had made other arrangements. I have put my foot down today because he is constantly taking the piss. He makes arrangments with DS to do 'fun things' without asking me first and constantly undermines me as a parent. I feel worn down and my leg is black and blue from the labrador sized dog crate.

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 12/10/2011 13:10

He doesn't need to ask your permission in his time

Just send your ds out to the car or whatever when he turns up

incognitofornow · 12/10/2011 13:11

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Original poster
drasticpark · 12/10/2011 13:13

I have arranged for DS to be elsewhere because I am being interviewed by the police at 4pm. My best friend is having him at short notice but has already made arrangements to go to the cinema with her DD so DS is going with them. If XP could collect him from school then it wouldn't be a problem. After the police interview I am working a night shift so my DS age 22 is having him for the night.

OP posts:
Original poster
drasticpark · 12/10/2011 13:16

By 'fun things' I mean he will text DS to invite him out when it is my weekend for instance. He disregards any arrangements I have made. He refuses to do 'boring things' like homework. And a good parent doesn't throw a dog crate at the mother of his child in front of their DS, surely?

OP posts:
sunshineandbooks · 12/10/2011 13:18

Am I reading a different thread? Do you all think it is normal and acceptable behaviour for a man to throw a metal Labrador-sized crate at another human being? You'd have to put some considerable effort in to pick it up, let alone throw it. It is nothing other than a deliberate attempt to cause significant physical harm, not a mere loss of temper like slamming a door too hard.

Whatever has gone on before (and I agree the quality of his parenting should not be an issue here), I think any sane person would be right to bar that person from coming to their home, even if only to stand on the doorstep or wait in the car. Someone who feels entitled to throw a crate at you isn't necessarily going to listen to your request to wait politely in the car or on the doorstep.

incognitofornow · 12/10/2011 13:20

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sunshineandbooks · 12/10/2011 13:22

incognito - OP has said that she is happy for XP to collect from elsewhere but not from her home.

incognitofornow · 12/10/2011 13:24

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incognitofornow · 12/10/2011 13:25

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Original poster
drasticpark · 12/10/2011 13:27

I have never prevented DS from seeing his father, ever. Today is the first time I have suggested he collect him another day, ie tomorrow. I have had threatening texts all morning. I don't want a war. I don't want to ever set eyes on him again. This is not the first incident of violence but it is the first one I have reported. I am trying to protect DS from being made aware that his father may be arrested for assault.

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 12/10/2011 13:28

Well the way I read it sunshineandbooks is that the POLICE would be there anyway taking a statement!!!!

Op would be safe enough, don't you think?

sunshineandbooks · 12/10/2011 13:32

I agree with you about the pr thing and I think the OP made a mistake in thinking she could or should use it to control this situation.

However, I fundamentally disagree with you about the virtue of flexible contact arrangements. They only ever work in an amicable split where both parents are respectful of each other, which is clearly not the case here (you can't get more disrespectful than throwing a crate at someone).

In the case of acrimonious splits, it is vital to have a formal, well-laid-out contact arrangement, where both parties are clear to the letter about their times.

In this case, I think the OP should proceed with charges against her X and get formal contact arrangements drawn up.

GypsyMoth · 12/10/2011 13:34

'get formal contact arrangements drawn up'

Well they will have to go to court to do that. Never that simple, but he would be granted PR straightaway so easier for future contact issues I guess!

sunshineandbooks · 12/10/2011 13:36

Tiffany on that occasion yes, but what about the next one? And the next one after that? The OP is introducing a rule that she doesn't want this violent man anywhere near her house.

FWIW OP, I don't think you can protect your DS from the knowledge that his father could be prosecuted for assault. Turn it on its head. It's a good thing your DS does know. As he witnessed the assault he needs to see you take a stand against it otherwise you are sending him a message that this sort of behaviour is ok.