The Brave Babes Battle Bus - Head To The Summer Of Sobriety

[Mouseface]

Hello

I'm Mouse

Welcome aboard The Brave Babe's Battle Bus. There are a whole host of lovely posters here who will support your journey to sobriety, however you choose to get there.

We are a Bus full of drinkers, non-drinkers and those who are somewhere in between.

BUT - we will never judge or leave a poster out in the cold. So, find a seat and settle down for the journey ahead.

And HERE is the last thread and those before it too. Just follow the links to read the journeys so far.

actually mif, i dont want to alarm you, but i have looking at my dd very carefully just lately - she is SOOOO like me in so many ways its quite frightening! - she is off the booze right now due to an episode a few weeks ago which involved hysteria and near nakedness on islington high street in the wee small hours!, usual tenage behaviour i suppose, but with my history im worried all the same!

is your 3 year old 'challenging'? - tbh, i think that just may be par for the course with 3 year old! i think a good spanking and bed with no tea is the way to go!

i have won awards for my parenting skills!

Thank you for your comments! MIFLAW, you seem to have found a better way forward for yourself, so hopefully your 3 year old won't feel the need to follow your footsteps in the alcohol department. Have you come to terms with the things that led you to drinking? Some people slide into it because it gets out of control. Others drink because life has been shite and it offers a kind of relief. I don't want my children to have the life I've had. I don't think they will.

I don't want to stop drinking altogether as I can enjoy a glass or 2 of wine and stop, and I am happy drinking nothing at all. However, it is a problem that I tend to drink too much. This week I am making a concerted effort to cut down, and look at the times when I do over-drink. I think it is a way of keeping a distance, probably fuelled by being unwanted, which in many ways I am better at overcoming. It is still at times hard to find ways to live instead of ways to die.

"Perhaps I have become accustomed to MIFLAW's tone but I have not found him remotely offensive or inappropriate. He does however tend to give you the no frills honest truth. Not always easy to hear, I know."

I'm afraid I disagree, what MIF said to me wasn't honest no-frills truth, it was patronising and insulting. I know from what people have said to me both on the thread and in PM's that MIF has a habit of affecting people in this way.

If you have a habit of upsetting people then surely it's time to take a look at how/what you post? I'd be mortified if I upset anybody,even under the guise of "honest no-frills truth", honestly I would.

There seems to be a certain amount of enabling MIF to carrry on insulting/upsetting posters too, which was almsot as irritating as his initial comments. I'm very sorry everyone - but MIFLAW upset me, and my feelings should also count and not be white-washed or dismissed because "that's just his way"

I'm leaving it and this thread there, I only spotted that comment as this still shows up under threads I'm on, which wont happen once the next one starts.

Best of luck to everyone, and thanks for all the help I recieved when I started my bus journey,this thread was my lifeline for a while. onwards and upwards!!!

I am sorry you feel patronised and insulted. I have personally found MIFLAW'S contribution to this thread extremely useful, thought provoking and some of his advice has saved me from picking up that first drink.

I hope you decide to stick around but if you feel you can't, good luck with everything qo.

Afternoon Brave Babes

LRD - welcome back, loving the new name! Kicking ass I hope.

Nemo's nurse is due so I'll pop back later after catching up and sort out a new thread too.

Mwahs xx

"I'm afraid I disagree, what MIF said to me wasn't honest no-frills truth, it was patronising and insulting." Fair enough, if you think it was patronising, I'm sorry. I don't believe it was insulting, though, and I don't believe I have ever insulted anyone on this thread, so I have no intention of apologising for that.

Your feelings do count - I do not want to upset people. Certainly, your feelings are no less valid than mine.

I share the way I share because what saved my life was not the undoubtedly kind and thoughtful people who said, "I'm sorry you're sad, do you want to talk about it" but the people, many of whom I intensely disliked for months or even years, who pointed out to me why I was sad. They did this because they didn't want me to die - and also because, based on what I was saying, they could only assume I didn't already know it. Being able to talk about how I really feel is a wonderful blessing of this site, of AA and of many similar approaches - but it never stopped me drinking. Listening to people talk about how they really feel is part of a barmaid's job description, as I found to my cost.

I do realise that my approach is not for everyone - as I say, I didn't like it myself. But it's what helped me in the long run, so it's what I try to pass on. I really am sorry if you feel bad as a result and also feel that it is not useful to you. Please, if you find others here helpful (and this is a general point, not just to qo) ignore the posters who aren't helpful and stick around for the ones who are; don't thorw the baby out with the bathwater!

Regarding my daughter, rest assured, it was mainly tongue in cheek.

i do, however, think that alcoholism has a strong genetic component and have recently met a young member of AA whose father was sober before the young man was born - in other words, dad was an alkie but sober; his son never saw him drink, let alone drunk; and yet still ended up an alcoholic himself.

So, yes, sometimes, when I'm being silly (and I know I'm being silly because I'm fretting over things I have no control over) I do worry about what the future holds in store instead of jsut seeing what happens and enjoying now.

MIF I can't stay on thread,as I literally cannot bear the fact that your words/tone/whatever are whitewashed over and that you continue to do it time & time again, even after knowing that you're upsetting people.This is the second time you've managed to upset me, and I know it has happened with posters other than myself too.

It certainly does feel like here on this thread, your feelings are more valid than mine.

And yes it was patronising to say, just dont drink then - if that was all there was to it, this thread wouldnt exsist.

and then to insinuate that I wasn't linking my anxiety to my drinking and that I was looking for a "free pass" sorry, but yes it was insulting and patronising, whether you accept that or not.

A difficulty I have is that MIFLAW, you tend to ask rhetorical questions. I can understand when I read your account of what worked for you, why you might think that's the same as people telling you thinks you don't want to hear, but I'm not convinced it is.

I think a lot of your advice is great, don't get me wrong - but if the approach of telling people what's wrong with their drinking is what worked with you, why don't you do that instead? I've heard you explain this before and still don't really understand.

Hey All

Gonna wade in with my tuppence worth if that is OK.
Miflaw says the things that I didn't really want to hear all the time in the beginning, but I listened to them, because what I was doing at the time was not working for me.

I realise that some people may have a problem with the perceived tone of them, but I do geniunely believe that they are said without malice, and come from a place of genuinely caring about the people on this thread.

If we were (or AA was for that matter) just a group of people trying to get sober it would be incredibly difficult - what makes this and AA work, is the people who are further ahead of us, and genuinely want to share their experience so that we may, if we choose, not make the same mistakes that they have made in their own journeys.

Mifl doesn't need to be here and share his experience with us, and if he didn't - the thread would be a lesser place for the lack of his wealth of experience, and his insight.

It is always difficult when words are written down, to "hear" the implied tone. But I choose to accept that things are said because the person who writes them genuinely cares, and is not saying them to have a go.

I want to be sober more than I want anything else in my life, and I will not allow myself to get in the way of that by finding reasons not to get support from people that can help. Either here or at AA. I choose to listen and take on board what people have said to me over the past 8 months, I do not follow all the advice I am offered - but I do choose to accept that people are offering me advice because they care.

If people choose to stay away from this thread becuase of one person and their percieved critism ( and it is only a perception imo) that is their right and I wish them well, but I do not for 1 second believe that Miflaw has said anything that warrants it.

Not reading this back coz I will chicken out of posting it!!

Bafana
x

I second that what MIF says, he says without malice. I am absolutely sure that is true.

Bafana - great post. I actually think that it's getting a bit personal on here against MIFLAW.

Don't get me wrong, I really hated reading his posts to me and even others, when I first started to post on here, but as posters have said, MIF posts what he 'sees and feels' from the words written down here.

IMO - he can read between the lines, he 'gets it' and let's face it, he's been in all of our shoes, more than once. I appreciate the fact that he shares his thoughts with us, just the same as any poster.

I don't think that he's ever attacked anyone, or made personal remarks about a poster but some of the remarks against him seem to be edging towards 'personal attack' teritory.

Yes, he says it how it is, the rest of us are nothing like MIF so maybe that makes his posts stand out even more.

I have a feeling that posters feel attacked by MIF's posts because they know, deep down, that there is at least a tiny bit of truth in what he posts.

Please, don't get into a battle here, it's really not helpful.

If you don't like what a poster says to you, report it if you feel it's a personal attack or just ignore it.

This is a support thread and people post their support in different ways.

im with bafana on this - my soberity is far more important to me than any 'upset' miflaw can cause me by posting what he thinks, however, i take a fair bit of umbridge that i would 'whitewash' over the fact that someone was upset by what was posted on here - you have every right to your feelings and you certainly dont have to like everything that is ever posted here - i have certainly told miflaw before that his style can sound abrasive etc, i still believe though that he posts from the heart, without malice intended - what we have to remember is that we are all very different people, with different views and different styles of posting.

stay or go, its up to you! - the support is here if you want to use it!

I have not personally attacked MIF at all, just "his way" of expressing himself and the whie-washing of others feelings when he hurts them. Also I fail to see how what he said to me was helpful even in the slightest.

I know I'm not alone on this, and didn't want to just "suck it up" either - I've made my thoughts and feelings clear - just as MIF does, although it seems he'll have his right to do that defended, whereas I wont.

If as you say(and I do believe you all) that what MIF says isn't intended with malice but still upsets a fair few posters - even driving posters away, then why can't that be addressed?

it seems to crop up time & time again, but to mention it is almost taboo!!

Thank you Mouse, Bafana and Jesus for writing exactly how I feel about Miflaw much much better than I ever could.
I have been on the receiving end of his "straight talking" and have felt upset by it. On more soul searching and being honest with myself, I realised I was upset because he was so right about many things.

I think he drives away posters who are not ready to face up to the reality of their problems. Just my thoughts...

mouse, it is personal, but at least as far as I'm concerned this is not intended as an attack. Actually, aren't almost all of our posts 'personal'? I think it is important to learn to be more honest about ourselves and inevitably that will lead to posts like MIFLAW's last saying how he felt when people told him what he was doing to himself, or like mine saying that I'm chuffed to get past five months, or like silent's expressing all her emotional turbulence at the moment.

So, for the record: I think it is not helpful to say that if you object to someone else's posts (in this case MIF's but it could easily be applied to my recent post to silent), then that is because secretly you know they are telling the truth and you don't want to admit it. I think saying that is so actually puts people who're struggling in a very powerless position, and I cannot help thinking that is the worst thing to do.

It's a really fine line between saying to someone 'look, you think you are x [different, not really an alcoholic, or whatever the cliche may be] ... but I used to think the same and so did lots of people who found they were mistaken', and saying 'you object to posts that characterize alcoholism in a particular way, because secretly you know it is true'.

To be personal about my own issues, an example where I really struggled was an AIBU thread. I was struggling to understand my DH's reactions to me drinking de-alcoholized wine (which is wine of 0.5% alcohol or less), and many people on that thread really flamed me. I doubt any of them will see this so I have no problem making that personal comment! Some of those people were obviously motivated by pure concern and in some cases long-term and detailed knowledge of alcoholism. Others, frankly, were judging for judgment's sake, as people will on AIBU. Problem is, the posts of these two very different kinds of poster often looked very similar and used the same language. It is a real problem. I don't think the solution is criticizing any one poster, but rather discussing the issues both of language use and of the tangles we get into emotionally and intellectually in understanding alcoholism. I mean: let's not beat ourselves up, this is a really, really complex topic.

Meh ... that was a huge post and I still didn't get my point across: on the thread I mention, the issue was that lots of people wanted to tell me it was very, very bad to drink even the tiniest drop of alcohol and I was clearly in great denial of my problems. Many saw every response I made as more evidence I was kidding myself - it's this kind of circular argument 'you disagree with me so it must be you really know it is true and won't admit it' that, frankly, makes me want to scream.

I'm sure all of us have been in a situation where we were resistant to the truth of our drinking. But that does not mean that we will always agree with each other, or that disagreement is a sign of denial.

Okay, so what is it that you want to address here qo? I'm really interested in how you feel, if you feel that this si all one sided, as in we all love MIFLAW and therefore ignore others... I want to understand.

Trust me, if MIF was to 'attack' someone, he'd get it with both barrels from me.

LRD - well said re the personal thing, that's very true. All of our posts are personal yes, I agree with that.

When we post advice we always address a poster using their name. I think that helps so we all know who is talking to who etc......

I've never said mif attacked me either!! isn't it strange how things can get twisted?

What I said was that his posts to me made me feel patronised and insulted, and that I know the same has happened with a few other posters. I actually joined my first BB thread(under a different name) slap bang in the middle of another episode where someone being upset by MIF's comments toward them.

I'd like to know why, if someone is upsetting as many posters as MIF seems to (albeit without malice, which I totally accept) then why can't that be bought up without accusations of personal attacks being thrown around?

I actually feel now that by voicing my own opinions and feelings, that I've done something wrong!!

I have to go out now, in case anyone thinks I'm posting and running.

qo - looking back at this thread, you have stated you felt patronised and insulted and miflaw apologised and tried to explain himself!

what exactly do you want to happen now?

jesus, I think what qo is getting at is that an attack is deliberate whereas MIF's posts are clearly not intended to cause offense.

I do think acknowledging his explanation better would be good, though!