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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Child told she was "not allowed" to go to the toilet.

188 replies

Offred · 13/05/2013 18:02

Because of SATs, when they were doing IT, she wasn't doing SATs, she is 6. They didn't want the SATs to be disturbed by traipsing children.

DD took it literally and wee'd herself. The class laughed at her. They did not call me, put her in her PE kit with no tights/socks even though we cycle and they know this and it poured with rain/hail today. Then the TA hassled me about the importance of returning the knickers to reception tomorrow morning. I gave them short shrift as my focus was more DD's feelings, called for the teacher. The teacher said DD should have known she could ask.

That is all they plan to do about it.

What do I do?

Dd is fine but I think she should be more upset and being resigned to such a lack of empathy is a bad sign.

I am quite upset.

OP posts:

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Littleturkish · 13/05/2013 18:04

I'd be furious. Letter to teacher requesting an apology and removal of stupid rule.

lunar1 · 13/05/2013 18:09

I would expect the teacher to apologise and to be given a written warning at the very least. This is disgusting treatment of a child.

What I would like is for the teacher to be made to stand on a chair in the middle of the class till she pissed herself. Whoever did this is a nasty bully and has no place dealing with children.

Itsjustafleshwound · 13/05/2013 18:13

Our infant school is in a state of flux because the yr2's are doing tests and need a quiet environment.

However, awful as it is, talk to the teacher again without DD, and get her side of the story.

I always tell my two children that if needs must, go out the room and then deal with the consequences.

girlsyearapart · 13/05/2013 18:14

It isn't nice at all for your dd I completely agree.

Once I was teaching a year one class & doing individual assessments with them whilst the rest of the class followed a carousel of activities.

I told them not to come & disturb the person doing the assessment with me.

One child took that literally & wet herself the poor thing hadn't wanted to disturb to ask for the loo.

That was about ten years ago & I still feel awful!

LackaDAISYcal · 13/05/2013 18:18

I wouldn't expect the school to call me if my children had wet themselves.

From the school's POV as a regular volunteer, they would have been told to ask at the appropriate time/go during break etc as they are every day. Once one child wants to go during lesson times, it literally opens the floodgates for 30 children all asking and if they let one, they need to let them all. However, saying that, if she had asked she would have been allowed. It seems more like a case of she didn't ask rather than was outright denied.

And your last line is telling. "DD is fine, but I think she should be more upset" I think you might be projecting your own feelings here. DD is fine, perhaps realises the mistake was with her for not even asking? I don't think the school can be blamed here, other than for not making it more clear that they could ask if desperate, for not making alternative toiletting arrangements/ or not cancelling/rearranging lessons around the SATs rooms and for not finding her something more appropriate to wear home.

And I think lunar1 is overreacting a bit. If you read the OP, the teacher didn't deny a child the toilet; the child never even asked to go.

Coconutty · 13/05/2013 18:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

learnandsay · 13/05/2013 18:24

We don't know what the children were told they could and couldn't do.If, as the title suggests, they were actually told that they couldn't go, then the teacher is wrong and she couldn't have known that she could ask because she had already been told that she couldn't go.

So, we really need to know accurately who said what to whom, and that's unlikely to be forthcoming.

girlsyearapart · 13/05/2013 18:26

Op did your dd ask to go to the loo or not?

In my case the child didnt ask at all - she wasn't denied her right to go.
Also wouldnt call from school or expect a call from dds school due to a wee incident.

The school do sound a bit harsh pressuring you for the return of second hand knickers !

mrz · 13/05/2013 18:28

We wouldn't call parents either just discretely change the child into dry clothes and our children aren't normally allowed to go to the toilet during lessons regardless of whether it is SATs week or not.

lunar1 · 13/05/2013 18:30

You are right daisy i did overreact I missed the last bit of the post where she said her dd wasn't to bothered. I was badly bullied by a teacher and was made to wet myself at school. However a child should always be able to ask for the toilet.

LackaDAISYcal · 13/05/2013 18:34

I don't think any school encourages it, though DD is in Y1 and they do have toilets in the classroom, but that's mainly because it used to be the reception room. After Yr1 they are discouraged, even though the toilets are outside the classroom doors in the cloakroom.

So, OP was it a case of them being told collectively that due to SATS they would need to wait until they were finished in the IT suite before being allowed to use the toilet, or was she told that she, personally, wasn't allowed after asking?

Original poster

Offred · 13/05/2013 18:34

I think they should have called me to ask me to bring her clothes so she could cycle home. We live 3 miles away and they make a big deal of how we are so good for cycling in all weathers. They left her in shorts and no socks to cycle in hail.

I don't think it was her fault for not asking. The teacher's story is that the it tech told them they weren't allowed to go and dd had taken that literally.

I don't think it is right to actually blame dd for not knowing that she should have asked when they admit they explicitly told them they weren't allowed.

Teacher confirms the tech told her that and that the class laughed.

I think what has happened is upsetting and humiliating and that dd being resigns to expecting that from school is not good.

OP posts:

Original poster

Offred · 13/05/2013 18:35

She didnt ask, she said she was too afraid to because she thought she'd ruin the y6's SATs so she tried to hold it in.

OP posts:

LackaDAISYcal · 13/05/2013 18:37

No worries lunar; these are the sort of incidents that stay with you. I was humiliated by a teacher for wetting myself in primary 3 (so aged 6/7) and it's never left me. I always make sure that mine are drilled into going to the loo at breaktimes to avoid it happening to them. Though schools are generally a lot less Victorian more accommodating these days, aren't they?

LackaDAISYcal · 13/05/2013 18:43

I think the problem here is with the IT tech then isn't it, not the teacher?

Is the teacher or TA not with them in the IT suite? I would expoect them to have a teacher with them, not just the IT Tech. I would have a word with the headteache tomorrow. And yes, they should have found her something more suitable to wear home. I can't believe they don't have spare tights/long socks/trousers.

And the asking for the spare knickers to be brought back soon...I can see where they are coming from; no-one ever returns stuff and they have none for emergencies like this.

lisson · 13/05/2013 18:44

I don't get it... if someone tells you that you may not go to the loo, then how else is there to take apart from literally?

What else could the IT tech have meant?

EvilTwins · 13/05/2013 18:48

I think you're massive overreacting OP. DTD2 is also 6 and she wet herself at school a couple of weeks ago because age needed to go when they were in assembly and knew that they weren't allowed to talk in assembly so interpreted that as not being allowed to ask to go. She managed to get through assembly but them didn't make it to the toilet in time. They didn't call me, just sorted her out and gave me her wet stuff in a bag when I picked her up.

I think you're being a bit ridiculous expecting them to call because you live 3 miles away and cycle. Presumably they follow the same routine for every child who has an accident.

Original poster

Offred · 13/05/2013 18:49

Yes, I understand that. I said I would return them as soon as i could and definitely by the end of the week when I had washed them but they insisted it must be tomorrow morning.

I don't think any school employee should ever tell any child they are not allowed to go to the toilet in any circumstances, yes, the problem is with the tech. I think the teacher does stay in with them in the IT suite though.

OP posts:

Original poster

Offred · 13/05/2013 18:53

I don't think it is ridiculous to expect them to call me and ask me to bring a pair of trousers so I could actually physically get her home without her freezing at all! What's the actual problem with doing that? They just left her to freeze, if they couldn't find something for her legs I think they absolutely should have called me and I think they are wrong for blaming her for not asking when they told her she wasn't allowed to go.

OP posts:

EvilTwins · 13/05/2013 18:55

Children do tend to put their own interpretation on things though, don't they? DTD2 has never been told "you are not allowed to put your hand up to ask to go to the toilet in assembly" - I know this because I asked her. However, she does know that other children have been told off for talking in assembly and didn't want to get into trouble.

OP, if your DD is ok, then I think to should just leave it.

Original poster

Offred · 13/05/2013 19:00

Evil : the TAs and the teacher all told me (separately) that the IT tech told the children they were not allowed to go to the toilet because they would disturb the SATs. DD hasn't put any spin on it. They actually just told the children that, not her specifically, but generally when they first went to the IT suite.

OP posts:

EvilTwins · 13/05/2013 19:03

So what do you want them to do?

GibberTheMonkey · 13/05/2013 19:03

This thread has brought back horrible
memories for me. I too was told I couldn't go to the toilet at a similar age and wet myself, everyone laughed and my peers remembered it for years after.
I still feel upset when I think about the embarrassment and how much I dislike that teacher. I'm 32 now.

GibberTheMonkey · 13/05/2013 19:04

Just seen lacksadaisy's post. So its not just me either

Original poster

Offred · 13/05/2013 19:07

Dd has struggled to integrate with school anyway, emotionally, she is being bullied and the school raised concerns about her emotions last year but were not very supportive in helping her settle in, felt she just needed to suck it up and shouldn't be finding it so hard socially. They were worried because she would never focus on anything and seemed distracted. Now she has gone too far the other way and is extremely overly compliant. Recently had total breakdown going into school over the assembly because she had a big part and was nervous but hadn't wanted to tell the teacher her worries and instead had a big tantrum. I feel they've taught her they are not interested in her feelings, they just want her to comply and that has contributed to what happened today. It is very confusing to be told to comply and then told she should have known they didn't mean something they said and she should have known that. How? How should she know when they mean things and when they don't?

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