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Original poster

Child told she was "not allowed" to go to the toilet.

188 replies

Offred · 13/05/2013 18:02

Because of SATs, when they were doing IT, she wasn't doing SATs, she is 6. They didn't want the SATs to be disturbed by traipsing children.

DD took it literally and wee'd herself. The class laughed at her. They did not call me, put her in her PE kit with no tights/socks even though we cycle and they know this and it poured with rain/hail today. Then the TA hassled me about the importance of returning the knickers to reception tomorrow morning. I gave them short shrift as my focus was more DD's feelings, called for the teacher. The teacher said DD should have known she could ask.

That is all they plan to do about it.

What do I do?

Dd is fine but I think she should be more upset and being resigned to such a lack of empathy is a bad sign.

I am quite upset.

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mrz · 13/05/2013 21:26

Why shouldn't they tell Y1 they can't go to the toilet Offred. I guess you have never tried to teach a class that are continually skipping off to mes about in the loo

Original poster
Offred · 13/05/2013 21:28

I am aware she needs to learn about this grey stuff. She may never though. I am always flummoxed by being asked for one thing and being expected to know it isn't what's required. Some people never learn.

It still doesn't mean that the tech's initial wording was fine or that the teacher's interpretation of events - dd should know not to listen to tech, is fine. It is obviously a stupid plan to give mixed messages and to tell y1 they aren't allowed to have a wee.

I am less upset now though after this thread, it obviously is making me more likely to be upset because of all the other things added together. Dd is needing some WA support in school over contact with her dad ATM too so I am a bit sensitive about her anyway. Objectively though I still don't think the school handled it well and I'll probably suck it up but remember it and keep it in mind for explaining to dd.

Some of you have been real flying off the handle picky witches on this thread though.

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Original poster
Offred · 13/05/2013 21:29

Mrz - because young children holding their wee results in bladder and kidney infections.

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LadyRainicorn · 13/05/2013 21:29

Well I can't believe I read that the op's daughter should just learn to stand up to being bullied.

And my dd (of roughly the same age) may of believed she wasn't too ask to go, and she certainly would have taken 'you should have known to have asked' as being blamed.

Op, I can see that you thought your dd was adequately dressed so didn't bring extra when it was needed but tbh, I wouldn't expect a school to connect the dots. Banging on about prompt return of the knickers would have wound me up though!

I think other posters who say there's bigger problems than this are right. Their pastoral care doesn't seem to be very good for your daughter. If she's being bullied, are you holding them to their bullying policies or are they blaming your dd for bringing it on herself?

mrz · 13/05/2013 21:33

As people have pointed out no one would stop a child who is desperate for the loo from going if they asked!

Original poster
Offred · 13/05/2013 21:36

Lady - they have a "well this happens to all kids" attitude but they have been good at communication and I have had good meetings with the teacher and head of infants, this teacher this year has allowed things which have reduced dd's tantrums like having a feelings book and sometimes bringing a teddy, the teacher last year thought she should just get on with it. She is much better and more settled this year. I realise though that there is only so much they can do, mostly it happens at lunch. She gets called fat and ugly and told no-one wants to play with her. It has helped to give her come backs like "I know you are but what am I?" And "that's nasty, when you say that I don't want to be your friend" and the pretending to be a zombie when they say everyone who is friends with her is a zombie.

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Original poster
Offred · 13/05/2013 21:38

No-one would mrz but dd doesn't know that. Clearly. Otherwise she wouldn't have wee'd herself! It is bad that she thinks they'd rather she wee'd herself than asked. It is bad they haven't identified that a y1 class might take "you are not allowed to go to the toilet" literally and either try to hold it or wee themselves (both are bad).

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LackaDAISYcal · 13/05/2013 21:43

OP it reads that you are more upset about the clothing issue than anything else and people are just responding to this.

I don't think anyone is being a "flying off the handle picky witch"; you have had a lot of support and a lot of advice to not confuse this issue with the bigger issues going on, which is the overall pastoral care of the school and how this is impacting on your DD. Get those sorted and move on.

Original poster
Offred · 13/05/2013 21:48

There has been a lot of misreading which I have spent posts trying to correct which gives that impression. If it was about the pe kit the post would be titled "dd sent home in pe kit"...

There's been some support, mostly witches tbh, witches with an agenda to slap me down for saying something they have a bee in their bonnet about even though it isn't even what I meant.

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teacherwith2kids · 13/05/2013 22:00

DS interprets everything absolutely literally (ASD traits).

In Year 3, they were told that they were no longer allowed to go to the toilet except at breaks.

He wet himself, simly through nerves - he was so scared that he wouldn't be allowed to go that he was desperately nervus, which as anyone knows is bad for the bladder control.

Ditto Year 4.

Ditto Year 5.

In each year, I went in, reminded them that DS takes everything literally, and arranged for them to tell him privately that the rule for HIM was that he could go to the toilet whenever he needed to. So he never needed to...but each year the next teacher insisted on saying the same thing

I am forever grateful to his Year 6 teacher, who simply said 'In Year 6, there is no need for rules about going to the toilet. You know when it is appropriate and when it is not. However, messing around in the toilet is not allowed.'

Her rule - that addressed what was really the problem while not preventing anyone from going to the toilet - is the one that enabled DS to make it through the whole year in the happy knowledge that he would never, evr wet himself. The fact that his bedwetting also stopped at pretty much the same time seems likely to be no coincidence.

AlienAttack · 13/05/2013 22:00

I don't understand, OP. You asked for opinions. I honestly don't see any evidence of "witches with an agenda" on here. I see people empathising with your broader concerns around the school but suggesting this specific issue is not a sensible way into that conversation. Is that ok to say or does that make me a "witch with an agenda"?

dangly131 · 13/05/2013 22:02

Good job she doesn't go to a school near me...the boys wear shorts right into senior school. They have to wear them in all weather, not just half an hour in the hail. Being cold for a short while will do her no harm.

Original poster
Offred · 13/05/2013 22:17

Alien - I asked what I should do, not for an opinion about whether dd was alright with bare legs.

Yep, some people been sympathetic. Some people have been pretty aggressive. Considering I said in the OP I was upset, I felt some were a bit over-aggressive and arsey mainly because the posts were not worded in a polite and reasonable way like you have tried to do with yours.

Anyway, it has helped posting, just think it's a good thing I'm not a particularly fragile person!

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LackaDAISYcal · 13/05/2013 22:20

I assume your witches comment is aimed at me , but I can assure you that I have no agenda whatsoever.

Meh. It's all just words on a screen.

You know what you have to do to resolve today's issues, in themselves not too major, but together with the previous bullying and uncaring atitude from the school have amounted to what must be a pretty stressful time for both you and DD. The bullying needs to be addressed first and foremost. Your DD needs protecting from it and the school have a duty of care to her to ensure that this is done. If, inspite of you trying to resolve it you still feel she isn't being well looked after, if I were you I would would be doing a strongly worded letter, but straight to the governors, never mind the headteacher.

I hope your DD is OK

KentuckyFriedChildren · 13/05/2013 22:42

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but why didn't she have a change of clothes (not p.e. clothes) with her? At my dcs' school they are all (and by all I mean everyone in the school regardless of age) expected to have a spare set of clothes in case they either have a toilet accident or get wet/muddy outside. Do other schools not do this? Would it possibly help your dd OP if she had a separate gym bag with spare clothing in as a just in case?

simpson · 13/05/2013 22:44

I also think there is more to this than just what this thread is about.

If the school had otherwise had been fine, then there might not be an issue but because there are other issues going on, it makes this issue seem worse iyswim.

(Sorry about the over use of the word issue Grin)

Original poster
Offred · 13/05/2013 22:46

No, they don't do that. But i will now send some with both big dc or keep some in my trike as it is a good idea. Generally the school are very precious in that they don't let them outside if it is muddy or cold or rainy so they don't get dirty in school and they don't seem to have many toilet accidents. It was partly what was annoying about the lesser pe kit issue because they normally have an ongoing hysteria about weather and children being outside in it.

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simpson · 13/05/2013 22:57

In fairness, my DC school do not expect a spare set of clothes either...

KentuckyFriedChildren · 13/05/2013 23:05

Ah right. Ours is a village school in the Highlands and if the school were going to be precious about the children getting wet and dirty outside then they'd never actually go outside Grin

I do think it's a good idea though to keep a change about. My ds (who granted has asd which does contribute to this) is very often in his spare clothes at pick up (and occasionally his 2nd spares- I send 2 sets as I feel it necessary for him, but don't do this for dd1) and it really does make a difference that he has his own clothes as I never have to wash and return plus they fit him and as he has sensory issues with normal school trousers he wear fleece lined joggers. It never occurred to me that other schools wouldn't have the same idea.

cloudpuff · 14/05/2013 08:33

Is the demanding an apology comment aimed at my post clam ?

I didnt demand an apology I simply told her class teacher that dd had not just stood and pissed herself, that she didnt put her hand up because the Judo instructer had told nobody to raise their hands while he was talking and that she was upset at getting wrong for not asking.

The teacher spoke to the Judo dude and found out that that is what happened and teacher apologised to dd and then the instructer did when he taught dd next. I didnt demand anything.

Sorry if I misread.

CheesyPoofs · 14/05/2013 14:38

My Year 1 DD has wet herself on the way home from school before, and had to walk home in wet clothes.

When I've asked why she said the teacher told her she wasn't allowed to go to the loo during class.

I was a bit annoyed at first BUT on further investigation I found out that the teacher in fact told them they should use the loo at break and lunchtimes to avoid needing it during class time.

And DD being DD didn't want to 'waste her playtime' (her words!) by going to the loo, so kept it in ALL DAY Hmm

I think children get enough breaks in the day (2 break times and lunch time). In theory they shouldn't have to go more than 1.5 hours without a loo break.

I had words with DD and told her she must use the loo at break time EVEN if she didn't really need it that much. I do think children this age need telling that - as it's not obvious to them, and they do tend to wait until the last minute.

mrz · 14/05/2013 17:26

"Why would dd ask to go when she had been told they weren't allowed to go? "

because she knew she was desperate

learnandsay · 14/05/2013 17:31

By that time it would probably have been too late anyway.

learnandsay · 14/05/2013 17:32

Telling infants that they can't go to the loo is a recipe for disasters of all horrible kinds.

mrz · 14/05/2013 17:37

is that statement based on your vast professional experience learnandsay