June 08 - if your name's not down you're not coming in!

[EddieIzzardismyhero]

Welcome to our new cliquey thread !

Hi Bugger. Nice to see you

Ktpie lightweight? . I'm very impressed!

Eddie glad you're feeling better

T has woken up and I've brought her downstairs so she won't wake up DD1. She is sleeping so badly at the moment

Sorry, I posted that without reading more recent posts. Also, T has done something with DS1's sonic screwdriver and it won't switch off and the buzzing is a bit brain-scrambling.

Dewin so sorry you have this to upset you. I don't think there's anything I can say save send you sympathy and love. And I think Neenz has a good point about leaving it in God's hands.

Neenz I think 2 cousins with the same name, especially a "normal" name like Dan, would be fine. If it was a far-out name it would be politically more difficult, but not with Dan. You've liked it for a while, and you've been upfront about it, if your SIL gives birth first and has an issue with both of you using the name, she can chose not to use it. You can even make it clear that it's not a race to the delivery room by saying something like "won't it be sweet if we both have Dans?".

Neenz - like Rolf I don't think it would be a problem to have them both called Dan, saw your fb link, I thought you must have been outrgaed

Neenz - while I agree that on principle I don't think it is a problem for cousins to have the same name, I think if I'm really honest, if my SIL 'beat me to it' I would probably choose another name. And if I used a name then someone in my family used it I'd be really miffed. [sulky child]

However, in your circumstances, I would probably say to SIL something along the lines of 'how funny we both like the same name, if we do have a boy before you and call it Dan then I really don't mind if you call yours Dan too'. Then she would be a bit churlish not to extend the same courtesy.

A timely reminder of the 11th commandment 'thou shall not discuss baby names before the birth'.

DGT - LOL at the 11th commandment. I agree: when I was pg with P one of my best friends was due 2 weeks later, we agreed not to discuss names at all so we couldn't be copying each other. In the end we both had boys on the same day, but we had a Peter and they had an Oliver.

Neenz, probably good though that you know the score and neither parents will think the other copied. I think you need to establish whether you would be bothered about having 2 Dans, and if you aren't check what your SIL and her DH think. Personally I would rather choose a different name but I don't think it actually matters if everyone is happy and doesn't resent it. If anyone does object then I would try to get a short list of 4/5 names and wait until the baby arrives. I was thinking about your dilemma in the shower and did the maths which gives you a 1 in 4 probability of you both having a boy (I think), so it's not a certainty or even probable. In summary my advice Is that which you gave to Dewin: put it in God's hands and see what happens.

Dewin - sorry for responding to Neenz rather than you. I am still thinking about your dilemma, and it is a harder situation than there being too many Dans. For most friends I would say to get with having a baby as there is no such thing as an ideal time career wise, there will always be compromises. However for you, your identity and happiness is so strongly bound up n what you do that I am not sure the same logic applies.

Back later...

Agree with others neenz to go for it- no one "owns" a name(although my sis may disagree as she got very miffed when someone used her unusual name). My current favourite boys name has been used already for a family dog but I don't give a shit as if we use it will be hard to imagine it for anyone else. That said have no clue for girls names so may well be pleaing for help
here.

The presents all sound great- would put a vote in here for playmobil for your dn biscuits.

Glad ethan improving enough to eat Jammy dodgers.

Dewin would echo deb and pls don't stop posting. For all I know things could go wrong here as was hardly conclusive at last scan.

Better go as edie clawing at door to go out

Dewin, hope you are feeling a bit better - no one can put themselves in your position but for me it would definitely be baby. Work will still be around after you've had your family. But it has to be what's right for you. One of the best things about having faith imo is you put your trust in the Lord and everything will work out right .

Thanks for all your wise words about my Dan dilemma! It has actually made me glad I discuss baby names before the birth cos afterwards it would have been even more tricky. I think it is a 3/8 chance of us both having as boy (3/4 chance for her x 1/2 chance for me) so almost 50% but more chance of not so we'll just have to wait and see. I think Dh should tell her that if she has her babies first and wants to use it that's fine but we might use it too. Not sure if we would, but if we are up front about it from the start then if she uses it she uses it in the full knowledge that we might use it too. I think I am having a girl now anyway!

Deb thanks for the link, lots of good ideas there, although think I'll give the football fairy a miss (although perhaps Neenz is only so horrified as they don't think there'll be enough interest in a Man City one?! )

Dewin sorry you're feeling in such a dilemma, I know lots of people with big gaps between children - my cousin has an 18 year old, a 5 year old and a 2 year old. I think spider's post is very good.

Neenz As others have said, if you don't mind having another Dan, then as Rolf said make it clear to your SIL that you don't mind and intend to use the name either way, that way she can decide if it bothers er enough to choose differently - hopefully it won't be an issue (and you won't have chosen the same girls name!) as my sister is due so close to me, we're just hoping we don't have the same short list, but we are planning to have two names picked so we can go with another if she does deliver first and pick the same one!

Bugger nice to hear from you! I'm sure that B will be a sporty/arty/academically brilliant chap, who will keep you in the manner to which you are accustomed!

Football Germany looked opminously good last night didn't they - although the Socceroos were pretty woeful! Still not surefire for anything though, they'd need to get past Argentina, and Spain/Italy to get to the final!

vegetables I have also heard about peeing on compost heaps being very good - It makes sense as it's ammonia rich, and no-one turns a hair at putting manure on their roses do they! (still not planning on peeing in the garden though! - although cheaper than miracle gro!)

One of DH's little bonding moments with the boys has, in the past, been communal peeing in the compost . I've never asked for details but I can only imagine them managing it by standing on ladders. No wonder Steroid Bob hates us

Neenz - Simple anwser - you both have scans to see what sex the babies are. Personally, I wouldn't like the idea of two names the same in a close family, but I think that's because my name is pretty unusual, esp in spelling, so I like being awkward unique. I got annoyed that there was another Ryder in the town I'm in, that I've never met....I'm pretty unreasonable.

My SIL has used one of my fave names as a middle name, which for some reason also bugged me. She didn't like enough for a first name so shouldn't have stolen it (even tho she didn't know I liked it....)!

Dewin - Please don't get annoyed with me, cos I completely understand that you're upset, but I'm gonna play Devils Advocate here. I know you keep saying that you've made your decision at this stage, but it doesn't seem like that decision is making you very happy. What would your reaction be if you did find out you were pregnant (by accident)? Would it be a relief or a problem? Could this also be related to worrying you'd have another crappy sicky pregnancy and any left over fear about labour (you did have a rubbish time of it).

• By the way, personally I think age gaps, age schmaps! But my bro & sis are a lot older than me. There's a lot to be said for large gaps making each child feel special. Like an only child but with the advantages of siblings too.
• Career wise, you have been so screwed over, a break may be the best thing for you personally...and if it's not you can get them back by suing for sexual discrim.
• You are not old!!! My sis is 42 and trying for the 1st time, now that could be a real case of what if I've left it too late?
• And if you do have one later, some of us may be jealous of you cos we won't be having anymore...or some of us may be having even more along with you!

Right, I'll shut up now and won't be remotely offended if you want to completely ignore all of that and me too!

Except.....please can you provide a brief summary of syphillis (sp?) with eg's of famous cases? I think that fits with your historical expertise and you're a dr. I have been warned not to have unprotected sex with strange NZ men as it is their biggest growing STD. Talk about spoiling my fun...

Not ignoring everyone else, just think I've go on enough for one post.

Hi all, been so busy this weekend not had time to post so trying to catch up on everything.

Dewin - I would feel upset if everyone around me was getting pregnant even if I wasn't actively trying. It does make you question your decisions. I think you are 33/34 so a long way from worrying about leaving it too late (I am 38 this year otherwise I would have liked to leave it until Luke was 4). I think you can buy simple fertility tests which might allay your fears a little or tell you if you needed to try sooner. I can't comment on your job and career as I know so little about it (I'm too stupid to understand) but if you did get pregnant, could you 'start again' from the same place once No 2 was old enough or are you in the middle of a career climb right now which would be affected. What does hubby think?

Neenz - If neither of you had mentioned your names in advance and SIL gave birth first and had a Dan would you have still called your (potential) son Dan too? I don't think two Dans is a problem. Two Peregrines or two Beelzebubs would be weird but two Dans probably OK!

We have Luke his Wendy house yesterday and he loves it. Not as flash as Eddie's but it has a sink and a phone inside and a pretend cooker! Eddie have you put yours up yet? Luke won't use his scooter either as he fell over on it! Can't believe it's tomorrow!!!

Have a look at my vid - he's all grown up! Luke

Hello everyone, thanks for the really helpful replies. It does help a lot to actually tell people about it, anonymously (not the kind of thing I'd want to discuss with my work friends...mind you, one of them does discuss exactly this with me ). Just typing it sort of makes things clearer.

OK, so, there are many levels to the issue, one of them being wanting another baby, but not just yet. Penguin I do think you might be right, that I'm settling into a decision that I'm not entirely happy with, and the problem is that everyone else is having another, so there's the crowd mentality issue but also being left out because I want to do it now.
In terms of my career, as you all know, I am indeed one of those evil selfish women for whom career is the be all and end all. But Spider is right, there is never a right time.
My worries now: I'm in the wrong job in the wrong department, but it's a credit crunch. Just to make it clear, I want a job in History (track record not good - theirs, not mine - they've messed me about a lot in the past). Currently they are not advertising anything, and may not until late next year. Meanwhile, I'm working through my crappy contract and within 14 months law will have to advertise a job that I can apply for (and hopefully get). OK, so I don't want a job in law, but a permanent job is a permanent job, and it removes the sense of desperation in interviews which is really off-putting!
My concerns...if I got pregnant this year, it might delay the job advert etc, and put me back. In regards to History, I do worry that I might miss a job advert (unlikely though) or not be in tip-top condition for interviews etc. But if I wait until I'm in History before having another baby, then I might be waiting 5 years etc etc...so that's not an option. I suppose, one thing to consider is that if I do get pg and History advertises, and then I go for an interview and they turn me down for someone with fewer qualifications (like they have done, twice) and I'm pregnant, it's a big legal case.
Another argument - now might be a good time, on a temporary contract etc etc, in a credit crunch...
My only other concern is my research assistant - that job is being advertised. But I'd just have to see what happens.

OK, fertility issues. Right, I'm 34 now. Me and DH were clearly match fit before, because we have a 100% success rate. (TMI alert...bear in mind he works away a lot so we can pinpoint dates - got pg on the first attempt without contraception (it was a slip up, we got carried away ) but I miscarried*. Then, 3 months later, decided to try. Tried once, I came down with a v. bad cold (so didn't want any more ) DH went away and when he came back I was pg and here's Iestyn!) So, nothing is definite, but maybe I'm panicking too much about being infertile?
[Can I also say, though, that this thread is a tad scary - set the bar high, why don't you! )
Also, in my confused state, I'm unwilling to start trying given that the last time I did that it was immediate. So there's a big mixup in my head (as you can all tell) in that I want to get pg, but won't start trying in case it happens the next day. But I'm not stupid and can also see that I could start trying and it could take a couple of years. (Neenz, Rolf - maybe God was/is trying to tell me something? And maybe I should listen...)
And the final bit about being all alone - ok, yes I was being very silly there, but I'm always worried about being left out, school-playground style. I have a massive, massive fear of not being in the in-crowd, and having people laughing about me. (Doesn't everyone?)

Many, many thanks for not being all critical and actually understanding what it means with my job (OMG, think if I posted this anywhere else on mumsnet...I'd be up there with the worst career types ever and they'd all throw stilletos and spray superhold hairspray in my eyes!!). (Also doesn't help, because this thread is about the only place I can discuss this, so thanks for that as well. )
I've been thinking a lot all morning (not working, obv...), and my current musings are to consider this after the summer. The point I'm at right now is not a good one to get pg (and have a shite pg like I did before Penguin!) and also I would deep down be doing it to keep up with everyone else. Also, a friend is getting married at the end of August and I don't want to be puke Mary at that.

DG - your post was particularly helpful for obvious reasons. Again, it's that feeling left out thing!

So, to syphilis... It's a terrible one, although curable now with antibiotics, I think? Famous cases - Oscar Wilde, probably Elizabeth I (the virgin queen? I think not!), maybe Richard I (Lionheart) and Philip Augustus of Spain, although they might have caught some dodgy fever out in Jerusalem. It's hard to be definite because the symptoms were wide-ranging and could cover a lot of things.
I'm currently interested in leprosy if anyone knows anything about that.

Weeing on the vegetables - I did panic for a minute there that someone had changed their name to 'vegetables' (because of the bold in Biscuits' post - btw, I keep craving biscuits because of biscuits!). I was desperate for DH to wee in the garden in London to keep the foxes away, but he wouldn't.

The Dan Dilemma - that's a hard one. My brother banned one of my names: Osian for a boy. He banned it on the basis that if he and sil had a baby boy they would use that name. (She's my age, not trying AFAIK, and not keen on children...my DB is dead keen and always has been. Interesting scenario but none of my business!) If I was pg now I wouldn't be so merciful, but it just so happens that I have a colleague called Osian now so the name has dropped down a bit. Plus, I have the best name ever for my not-even-a-twinkle boy. Neenz can you talk it through with her? I'd consider that - see how set she is on it anyway, and whether Daniel is what she'd really be considering? I'd think Dan and Daniel would be ok, but 2 Dans a bit confusing. Mind you, I say that - Iestyn has two aunts, 'married' to each other, called Kate&Kate.

*Miscarriage - who was mentioning sad anniversaries? Mine was 16th of June, i.e. Iestyn's birthday. Strange.

Nice positive thread about bigger age gaps here which I found quite reassuring. We'd always said that if we did decide to have number 2 we'd wait till S was around 4 (risky, as I'll be 39 then) but the more people around me having number 2 around now the more anxious I get about age gaps. So I was quite pleased to find this.

Of course, next week I'll definitely not be having any more again .

Amber I saw your vid on fb - very cute.

Blimey Amber his talking is amazing! And to think, I was pleased this week because J learnt to say purple!

dewin only you can decide if this is the right time to have another. But as has already been said, it doesn't seem as if your decision not to have one yet is making you very happy. To be honest, your career doesn't seem to be going the way you want it to at the moment - are you sure that having a baby now would make it worse? And also, will there really be a better time 12-24 months down the line?

sorry Neenz, I'm going to have to disagree and say that two Dans who live so close to each other in the same family is not something I would want. If your sil chose to name her new baby Theo wouldn't you be a bit hacked off? I would talk to her about it, as I suspect she will not be pleased if you go for a second Dan - also, they will never actually be 'Dan' they will be 'big Dan' and 'little Dan' so that your family can distinguish between them easily and how annoying will that be? I have a cousin called 'little Roy' for the same reason and he is a huge man who will never be known as anything else.

God, I'm opinionated today. Sorry

Hi Amber - that's just it, the whole making me question the decision.
You're not too stupid to understand! I write books on very obscure things, I play with 13th century manuscripts, and I teach students about it. Simples.

I may not be pg, but can I now have an award for the longest post in the history of this thread?

p.s. I don't want to offend people - I'm assuming I'll get pg immediately. I know it doesn't work like that.

Pah, just lost a mahoosive post. I x-posted with you Dewin, so just wanted to come back and say that your post makes a lot of sense as I go through similar (but slightly different) arguments with myself. I've got a few years on you and can only hope that the fact that DH and I too were pretty 'match fit' will hold us in good stead if we do decide to try again down the track, but of course we can't rely on that.

Aargghh, very restless and needy toddler dragging me away...

I have a friend who is an expert on colonial medicine so any horrible disease information needed that Dewin doesn't know about....

DH has pointed out that maybe T didn't sleep very well last night because in the afternoon she drank most of my v strong coffee .

Dewin glad it helps to chat on here. I'd be scared of delaying pregnancy for a job that seems so uncertain. But I know that your job is a much bigger part of your life than for most people. I thought I was Mrs StraightforwardPregnancy when I had my 1st 2 children, and now I have a great big fat sticker-covered file.

Thanks Biscuits. I was thinking about you just before you announced you were pg because there was an article on Woman's Hour about female surgeons and how the child bearing years clashes with the point where they have to put in lots of hours in theatre as well as exams etc. It means that if you have kids and then go part time it is v hard because you simply can't get the hours of experience you need. I know you are a radiologist rather than a surgeon but it got me wondering at the time whether you would want to delay having a second for a bit (clearly not)! Do you still have more exams to take?

Feeling a bit ratty and tired. P seems to run round yelling "this, this, this" at me constantly. I feel like a slave. Anyway, he is asleep now so I am going to put on my hypno cd and try and chill....

Yes, dewin you can have an award. very interesting post though, glad it helps you to put it down here.

I am currently being force fed satsuma by C, I think she's worried about me not getting my 5 a day!

sybil purple is a hard word, well done J!

rolf oh dear at the coffee! C and I went to a coffee shop for lunch today, and she had a babyccino - She was v pleased with herself and kept saying 'Charlotte having a Coffee, not Mummy's coffee, Charlotte's coffee' I dread to think what she'd do if it was actual caffeinated coffee!

amber lovely video, I think C and Luke could have very lengthy conversations!

x-post Spider I was a surgeon, did all my exams, and then switched to radiology, for a variety of reasons, but largely, as you've mentioned, because it didn't look like fun, or hugely practical, with a young family.

I still have more exams - another set in September (brilliant, can't wait!) mind you, this will be the fifth time I have sat exams in radiology, and the fourth time I will have done so while pregnant!

wish C would have a sleep... I could do with one!

Amber - Luke's speech is amazing, Ethan is very behind with his speech, he understands fine, can follow quite complicated instructions but expressive language is rubbish really! The only 2 words he puts together are sit there and other than family members no-one else would understand. Dewin and Sybil(you are speech aren't you?)do you think it might be because he's growing up here and isn't interacting with other children speaking English, apart from siblings? At playgroup he joins in with the actions of the songs but not any words and doesn't communicate with the other children at all. Oh, it looks like years of speech therapy ahead of him too, still going with ds2, have been for 4 years now. Think my boys are getting progressively worse, just as well he's the last.

deb, no I have no speech training, just lots of experience of speech therapy because of ds1's problems. The therapists (and there were many...) that I saw with him though all agreed that speech delay was often a genetic thing and told me I would probably need speech therapy for subsequent children Bizarrely though, dd was fine. She was not an early speaker but by three she was able to hold really clear conversations and only saw a speech therapist twice as she couldn't get a g or c sound.

J is behind but I am not worried and I don't think you should be yet either. J can say a few individual words and we can understand most of them clearly. He doesn't often link words together but we do get things like 'thereitis' 'Josh, no!', 'mummy mine', occasionally so I think he will get there. I just try to repeat what he has said back to him clearly each time he gets it wrong and am hoping that it will pick up over time.

I think plenty of toddlers, especially boys, are still at this stage at this age. J's only closest friend is 11 weeks younger and can only really say mummy and no. I think we need to wait until they are at least 3 before panicking - speech therapists won't see them until then anyway.

One thing I am going to do though it to make sure his tongue/lip development is ok. Most of ds1's problems were caused by poor control/strength in those areas, he literally couldn't put his tongue up to his top teeth, and so had no way of making sounds like 'l', and couldn't purse his lips so couldn't make 'p' etc. We are already trying to encourage J to blow bubbles/candles to aid this and will do more and more as time goes on.

What tips have you picked up for helping with this? Maybe we should share advice.

Sorry, that post was long and probably really boring for everyone else!

God you lot have been chatty since 10pm last night!

Lol at June 08 babies forming a footie squad ? well they couldn?t be any worse than England, eh, Neenz?

Dewin, I?m so sorry you?re finding it hard to cope with the pg dilemma at the moment. In some ways I can totally get where you?re coming from ? although some of you may think this is really stupid , but I feel I caught the bus too early IYSWIM. M came along so fast that I felt it went through it largely on my own ? now I know lots of people who are expecting their 2nd in RL and are all sharing the highs and lows of pg and I feel very left out. I?m still incredibly sad about not having another baby and feel hugely envious of those on here who have three or more children. I think it is an area where there are so many complex feelings, especially around age/career/age gaps/number of children, etc. FWIW you?re definitely not too old, but I wouldn?t encourage you to wait too long either. As for the age gap, I don?t think there is ever a perfect age gap ? one of my NCT friends has a sister who is nine years younger than her and they are incredibly close, I am only 17mths younger than my sister and we haven?t spoken to each other in four years. It?s down to personality not age IMO.

Neenz, I wouldn?t want two cousins with the same name, but what is your SIL thinking of calling a second DS Dan when the first one is called Sam?! Sam and Dan? No, no, no!

DG, I would have to disagree on the 11th commandment! I think people should discuss names before the birth so people can point out if they?re awful or don?t go with your surname or something!

Amber, can?t believe how much Luke has changed ? mind you I haven?t seen him in RL since he was about four months old! We?re not putting our playhouse up until we move to the new house ? we get a new house and so does A then! Can?t believe it?s tomorrow either ? what are you planning to do? You?ve taken Luke to the aquarium before haven?t you? Would you recommend it?

Forgot everything else I was going to say! Off to buy A some boots for his footie lessons (he does Little Kickers!) .