Dec 08 mums - from rolling to sitting and everything inbetwean

[waitinggirl]

there i've done it - hope that is ok.

Right, I'm thinking that as soon as I get us a tenant sorted for the flat I will shoot off with ds home again to catch up with friends? What do people think? must make the most of this maternity leave with all this talk of going back to work right? dh sleeps most of the flight anyway, so can't really say i'm too worried to do it alone!

Hi everyone.
Nice to see you Verso and welcome back pmk. I think I would go back in your position and make the most of the opportunity while not working.

Well we missed swimming this morning. I didn't even try DS back in his own room last night but took him to bed with me at 2100 and fed him to sleep (although he needed some rocking also). He then woke at midnight, 3am, 5am and 8am for feeds (not as bad as poor spot's night though!) and I couldn't face getting up then for swimming. But at least I got some sleep in between the feeds. I may need to do the same tonight and then hopefully will have the energy to get him back in his room after that (as I know I'll sleep better if he's not in the bed with us).

LadyT - brave of you to work at home and look after DD. Some days I can't even get some lunch made! Am lucky as when I go back to work my mum will have DS one afternoon and DH will have his turn on a Saturday morning.
Sorry to hear about the house.

Effie - a friend of mine went from mini-pill (no side effects) to injections and then to implants and had no problems with either and was happiest with the implants as doesn't haveto be seen again for 3 years. They can cause erratic bleeding for a few months which tends to settle but alot of people have them taken out before giving them a chance to settle.

jj - like the sound of your night time routine. Maybe I need to be a bit more consistent with that.

Off to meet the baby group this afternoon and looking forward to the cake already!

DS was asleep on me then but has just woken up with the most gorgeous smile. Maybe back later and if I have the energy will stay up for the Apprentice.

hello
i'm feeling like a very bad mummy - p and i were in the garden and all was well until i managed to clonk her on the head with the swing she shrieked but soon stopped. but she had a bump and little bruise within minutes :{ i've put a pic on my profile of her helping me with the gardening (pre head injury!)
spot so sorry about your night. can you get to the doc to get your throat and chest checked?
last night i was undressing for bed, took off my top and dh said "you look hot" - i whipped my bra off and my breast pads leapt out on to the bed, and he said "hmm. not so much now"!!
oh and veggie there's a lady at the baby group i go to who comes from Australia, and i've taken a liking to her (in a non-lesbian kind of way!) because she reminds me of you! I know nothing about her but whenever she speaks I expect her to come out with something wise or lovely just like you do

Trace Don't worry about P. Yesterday I put DS2 in his cot for a nap. When I went up to get him I wacked his head on the door. His cot is behind the door and I didn't open it all the way!!

I am seriously struggling to find anything healthy to eat on Saturday!

Ok - have bought a blackout blind - this one http://www.theflowerstork.com/gbu0-prodshow/baabaablind.html?gclid=CLWvidCMy5oCFQSRZgod7TKH3A

Will let you know how it goes

Sorry for everyone with shocking nights. They arent too bad, its the mornings for me....

here www.theflowerstork.com/gbu0-prodshow/baabaablind.html?gclid=CLWvidCMy5oCFQSRZgod7TKH3A, sorry.

Its a travel one too....

DH has taken DS1 to the GPs as he has a rash type thing on his arms and legs. Turns out it is just more eczema. So even more cream we have to cover him in. I feel so sorry for him, he gets it so badly but DS2 doesn't seem to have any.

oooh - the travel question! its a toughie but we have always been "bad" parents and would leave our kids in a hotel room and go downstairs to bar/restaurant using either the babylistening service (basically an open phone line to reception) or a Babytel Babytel listening device)(its a really good box that you connect to a phone line and it calls your mobile if there is any noise whatsoever in your room, has an unlimted range unlike an ordinary monitor - once cost us a fortune (more than a babysitter!!) in calls when we were in POrtugal as we had the washing machine was on spin...) We never go more than 2 or 3 mins from the room but it is either that or spend many nights sitting in a darkened room with one or more babies. Its a divisive topic obv. with the Madeleine McCann thing (personally I would have not left them without any monitor) but I know many people who would just not leave kids at all). To me the main risk would be older children wandering. Anyway...

Sorry for droning on. spot hope you are feeling better but what a shocker of a night. Sounds like teething as others have said. L is and is deeply unhappy at various stages. I can feel the tooth right there beneath the surface but who knows how long before it pops up.Jump really hope you have a much better night tonight. Off to take DS and DD swimming.

oh, spot and jump - and the rest of you/us with bad nights - ugh ugh ugh. not much more i can say. we had a tough one last night, but nothing like yours.

turnip - thanks for advice re: hotels. we will see how far from the rest of the hotel our room is, i suppose. although have chuckled much at the portuguese washing machine incident. oh, and where do you take them swimming?

madam is by turns grumpy and fine - and so unusually for her, NOT EATING very much. am slightly concerned. suppose i should express to keep supply up. bugger - the one thing i can do well and she can't be bothered...

WG you do LOTS and LOTS of things well inc feeding! I take the older two to lessons at the Virgin gym. There are only 4 in a class and they learn to swim out of depth (there is no child height bit) so I think it's worth the extra. Need to take L but can only do that when the other two are at school / nursery.

Yes, the call thing in Portugal was a shocker - because of course we got charged by the hotel for the Babytel phoning us - and then our phone co. charged us each time for the incoming "roaming" call!! It was about 100 euro in the end!

turnip - thank you. didn't mean to be disingenuous - just it has been the easiest thing for me so far.

tomorrow is the 2 year anniversary of my first miscarriage. i was coming back from portugal and supposed to be going to the chelsea flower show that evening with a friend. just caught a bit of chelsea on teh tv and it reminded me. i started bleeding before getting on the plane, and by the time i had landed at luton (of all god-forsaken places to be at a time like that) it was obvious what was happening. i thought it wouldn't bother me, but i am feeling a bit odd about it all the same. despite all the talk of how hard it is to have a toddler and a baby, dh and i were thinking of "pulling the goalie" from september this year. who knows how long it will take and whether we will have more miscarriages. blimey.

hello just popping in briefly as i am in Manchester. DH induced us up here on the promise of a very nice hotel room and room service breakfasts how could i refuse. Its right in central Manchester so have been trapsing around the city all day and visited a cool museum (more Steam train viewings for DS1). Next week is school holidays and have just discovered he is in WArwick then so might be there next week.

WG as you can see we are quite frequent hotel hoppers, the the others have given good advice re: hotel listening etc (Turnip that babytel sound good though expensive) some hotels organise babysitting but you are best calling in advance to organise it as they book out, and if you have them til late you often have to pay for the taxi. We have been blessed with heavy sleepers so when they are asleep if we stay in the room we just get our dinner keep the lights low and watch a movie on DH's laptop. Otherwise that bathroom thing sounds good.

Right dinner is hear better go will hopefully catch up later.

OH JJ it wasnt me on the premidnight thing and Trace you are so lovely and Syb i love you too, you guys say such lovely things. Right got loads to check on FB and else where oh and my dinner thats right.

I just wandered on to the 'last 15 minutes' area and looked at a thread which has completely confused me...full of 'trolls' (which I'm assuming is fake people) and no-one believing anyone else, and lots of abuse and weird stuff. I've run quickly back to the safety of our thread

WG - sorry to hear about the anniversary of your mc. It's not suprising you feel odd and I think anyone else would also. Look after yourself.

Trace - I saw that thread also - scary!

Veggie - hope you enjoying Manchester. Went to some of those museums on school trips ( a long time ago!)

Bedtime routines - we take DD upstairs at 7.30 and every other night she has a bath. PJs on in the dark bedroom, then a feed and bed. I'd like to add a story into the routine somewhere, but don't know if she's too young ATM. She loves books but gets really excited when we read them in the day, so maybe it would be disrupting at bedtime? I say with lots of apologies to those who have had rough nights recently, but she is a little wonder at settling at night and every evening I sit by the monitor glowing with pride that we don't hear a peep, even though I know she doesn't always drop off straight away. She still wakes a couple of times in the night and is a little monkey about other things, but I love her for this bit of good behaviour (I can take no credit for this, as she's always been very good even before we introduced a bedtime routine)

JJ I don't know anything about brain development before midnight, but my Mum used to say that an hours sleep before midnight was equal to 2 after, but I think she was just talking quality of sleep rather than anything more

We've started to give DD a tiny little bit of mushed veg this week and she seems to be enjoying it. At the moment we're giving her just a couple of spoonfuls before her lunch, along with some sips of water. However she doesn't have a big feed after that (I guess its taken the edge of her hunger) so our afternoon/evening feeds have gone all skewiff. Should I be feeding her before giving her the mush to make sure she gets enough, or will she settle into a more predictable routine as she gets used to having mush?

I've had a busy day, I am cream crackered, but have enjoyed it. I had my hair cut this morning (the first time in MONTHS) and I feel very respectable now and this afternoon I met my friend for tea and a gossip. I mentioned that I was going to the library van on the way home (I have finally finished a book I've been renewing since before DD was born ) and she offered to look after DD for quarter of an hour whilst I went and browsed at my leisure - it was so lovely to spend time thinking of all the lovely books I could read. I got back to my friends house and asked if DD had been, and her 4 yo DD announced that E had been sick twice and done a very smelly trump and !

Hello all, a bit calmer this evening after a total meltdown this afternoon - both me and Mr T lay down on the bed and cried for ages, I just didn't have the energy to walk him round the park or do anything that might normally work. We went to the docs earlier on and they said there was nothing they could do for either of our coughs so am dreading another sleepless night tonight. I still can't work out whether i have PND or not - I do spend more days unhappy than happy, I am exhausted all the time and it is seriously affecting my relationship. But how much is just due to sleep deprivation? I'll have a run of good days and be convinced I'm fine, then end up in tears again for 5 days in a row. And does it matter whether I have the "label" or not if I'm still feeling unhappy a lot? People have been very kind and offering to help and I never take anyone up on it as I'm concerned about T being with someone else but maybe it's better than being with me in tears...
Sorry, that was all a bit self-pitying. Have decided I need to look after myself a bit more but not really sure where to start.
WG, so sorry about your impending anniversary, it must be really tough. But that's great news you're thinking about doing it all again in Sept. Blimey indeed .
Turnip, lol at your hotel story, it sounds like the kind of thing I'd do. And fingers crossed little L's tooth pops out soon.
NJAN, I can totally see why you're down about the mornings. blackout blinds sound like a great idea. We just have some dark sugar paper blu-tacked up (how cheap am I??) but it's got really tatty so is letting loads of light in . Might invest in a decent product for a change.
Modernlove, sorry to hear about your unsettled night, hope the baby group was good and you have enough energy to watch the App.
Kayz, poor DS1, that must be so itchy for him, I hope he gets some relief from the new cream.
PMK, you should def go again if you're up to it, am so impressed with your derring do.
Ok, so I started this about 3 hours ago so there will prob have been loads of posts since then, but I will say good night now, and hope everyone gets some decent sleeps.

spot where does sleep deprivation stop and PND begin? Discuss! No, seriously, I have often wondered the same thing. With DD1 I struggled on for EIGHTEEN MONTHS before finally acknowledging that the way I felt wasn't right. I think you probably know the answer... I totally agree about the looking after yourself bit, but it's very difficult to put into practice. Maybe think of something small but achievable each day: buy a nail polish and actually do your toes, have a 15-minute bath, read the newspaper, make a nice lunch for yourself, go out for a walk in the park and take time to notice all the plants and flowers and listen to the birds instead of the running commentary inside your head...

FWIW with DD2 I realised I wasn't "right" a lot sooner and now am almost feeling normal (?!) most of the time. I still occasionally have rubbish days, but nowhere near as many. The way I could tell the difference was that even if I'd had a better night (ie just three wakings) I was in pieces the next day. Now, even with DDs 1 and 2 occasionally both up for most of the night I don't get "shouty" or weepy - I just can cope.

By the way, I'm not saying you do have PND - just that you probably are the best judge of whether you do or not, because you know what's normal for you. Just don't feel you have to battle on without getting help.

I really feel for those of you having the bad nights. I think you all know how bad mine were! Still no sleeping through, but improving on where we were at before.

Remember my annoying work situation? Please wish me luck as I have an interview for a very senior job at another company today . Also had a first interview for something else last week and am waiting to hear about a second interview...

sybs one more week - can we manage a final meet up?!

Spot, WG hope you had better nights. I was still woken at 5 but managed to use various tricks not to get out of bed until aftre 7....

Zoe I feed mush at dinner time for that reason (and also because its more social as we are all eating then), but I know it is recommended that you do lunch first not sure why. Cant think that many babies would have a problem with just fruit and veg, and anything a bit "dodgier" I'd do at lunch. That way DS2 hasnt really cut down much on milk at all.

WG I had a miscarriage between DS1 and DS2. Devastating. I then feel straight after with DS2 kind of by mistake and found the pregnancy really hard as a result. I still think about the child that wasnt, but its made a lot easier by how wonderful DS2 is. I found it much harder than I expected.

HI Verso, Spot. I'm also not sure about PND. I had what turned out to be a thyroid problem last time that made me feel quite stressed but I've got really down this time and it is hard to know if its circumstance or hormonal as we have had 3 deaths within a short space of time, and I NEVER get a break from the kids. Sometimes I dont feel like a person anymore in my own right, almost like I have lost some of my personality. My life just seems to be about other people and no-one cares for me IYSWIM ? Its hard work with two small ones, but I feel under pressure to make the best of it and my maternity leave.

I'm planning on going back to work soon, as having a bit of time away really helped last time. But I wonder if just a day off now and then would probably work for me.

Morning,

Spot Sorry you are feeling down. Is it worth seeing your HV or GP just for a chat? Thinking of you.

Verso Good luck for your interview today!! Fingers crossed.

WG Sorry to hear about your mc. It's quite exciting thinking that you'll be ttc again soon!!

I am going to stop giving DS2 baby rice etc and just do BLW with him. It is just so much easier and he can then eat with us. Just need a new highchair now. Thinking of getting one of those wooden ones for DS1 that turns into a little table and chair.

Bedtime routine didn't work. DS2 just screamed and screamed when I took him up to bed. But of course he went straight to sleep downstairs. He actually slept from 8 until 7 without waking for his 11pm feed. Now I just need to get him to go in his cot.

Hope you are all well today.

Good luck Verso!

Spot: I honestly have no idea on the
pnd, but do accept any useful help... argh battery about to die!

nights: DS2 stil unsettled, maybe separation anxiety? He's in bed with me from about 10/ midnight and sleeps pretty well until about 4 when it's constant feeding to try and settle him. Must do Something but not sure What.

Spot, sorry you are feeling down sometimes. I know what you mean about leaving T with others.... I get nervous and rarely do, but I think it's only normal to feel that way, heck I get nervous leaving him with dh with his annoying ability to switch off completely at home and not be woken!! Maybe you should though as it sounds like you need a break. Is there anyone near you with babies? I know I'd feel better leaving B with a friend who had a baby similar in age. I'm no doc, but if you are upset for days on end sounds like you should take a break. Can you come and meet up with any of us? is there a meetup happening by the way? My travels aren't very heroic, trust me. it's my job so not a big deal, and the plane's engines have quite a calming effect on babies... I'm actually happier when I get out and about a bit more liike ladyT does (however don't think I could ever match that as I just don't know enough people!)
WG our timelines / plans sound quite similar! Maybe we'll be meeting up on a 'due 2010 thread"! Can we stay on this one too please ? How does that work? I'm currently getting myself into a spot over on the pg thread with a cs vs natural birth thread!!
Verso good luck today - I have a good feeling about it!
ds went to bed at 7pm and I decided not to wake him for his 11pm feed - big mistake, as he got hungry at 130am then woke at 230 430 and 530 etc... He may have slept through and gone back to normal pattern if I had of woken him at 11pm - idiot!!
He just cried when I took away his banana custard!! Just like his father...

spot - you don't sound in a good place. Poor you. Did you ever take the tablets you were given? Do you still have them? I think it might be an idea to talk things over with the GP/HV again, like Kayz suggets. You know I come at things from an "I've had PND" position, so maybe I sometimes overreact to things people say about themselves, but that is because PND is such a dark and scary place, I would hate for anyone to end up there when they could have perhaps been helped back off the slippery slope, if you see what I mean? Being sad more days than you are happy isn't normal at this stage, but you're right that the lack of sleep is responsible for a huge amount. I know I witter on, but ask yourself if you ever look forward to things? Do you enjoy seeing friends? Do you find enjoyment in things like you used to? Do you worry irrationally about T's health or safety (your worries about his cough and vomiting are entirely rational - I mean fear of going out in case you get run over, that kind of thing). How's your appetite? The fact that you often can't sleep even when precious T is sleeping would suggest to me that this could be PND, but I'm no doctor. Then there are the 'don't answer to me but ask yourself' questions...do you have any thoughts of harming yourself or T? Do you wish you were no longer here? Do you have hope for the future? Sorry to sound dramatic. Be honest with yourself. As for practical stuff verso had some fab suggestions. Letting someone else look after your ds is so very hard because as mummies we do the best job (of course!) but our LOs need us to be well. He will come to no harm if a friend has him for a few hours so you can lie down/ go for some retail therapy/ have a long bath/ go for a facial...
Anyway, I have no doubt waffled enough.
look after yourself - there's no shame or failure in taking medication or having PND - I am a different person this time for being treated early and I think Verso might say the same.

morning all,
spot sorry you are having a rough time. Sorry I have no idea on the PND but I imagine like Verso says that it is quite hard to see where one starts and the other begins if you see what I mean. Do you have any friends locally? I find that meeting up with people feels like a break especially if it's round someone elses house etc, as you can usually get some normal conversation and the little ones are entertained by new toys!
wg Miscarriage sounds awful not surprised you feel sad about it even now. Good luck with number 2 when the time comes though! Exciting. I may be joining you in trying at a similar time, but not sure yet, and obviously may take a while
verso lots of luck - fingers crossed for you!
re the hotel room thing, DH and I were having this discussion only last week. Prompted by me finding an iphone app that does similar to what turnip was talking about - you leave one phone with app turned on by cot, and put other mobile number into it and it phones the other mobile if there is any noise. I guess the problem is trusting it, and also would need plenty of reception! I think I'd probably be happy to use the hotel ones though and go for a meal in a hotel restaurant.
SO you know we were talking about those jumperoo things - got one for 30 quid second hand off gumtree, DS loves it!! Bless. It makes quite annoying noises though, and he's a bit small, the little shortie so he's got a yellow pages under his feet!
njan shall we say we will try and meet up the week after next then? My parents may be here early week so may be towards the end of the week.
Oh the other thing, I may be arranging a mini-party thing at my house with this company that help you make mugs/plates, etc with DC's handprints on - to make some mugs or other things for Father's day. Would you be interested? Or anyone else fancy a trip up to Cambridge?

Right going to get the shortie out of the jumperoo, much as he seems to love it don't want to neglect him

Oh I meant to say - pmk - step AWAY from the vb/cs threads!