November 2008 - Cooing babies, tired ladies

[LackaDAISYcal]

now I'm off to catch up.

OBS Definately get a pricvate refera\l if you can, 6-8 weeks more of waiting is SO not good. Especially if you are both feeling like this. Hugs to you chick, glad you are coming to mine next Monday x

Obs hugs to you hope you can get the referal. You are a star.

Merry you afternoon tea sounds lovely - what a nice idea.

Twinkling I have similar problems with DS2 he is a gret sleeper at night from around 11pm but is like a limpet through the day and has barely any sleep at all, If he does sleep it is only in your arms and as soon as you put him down h is of again. I'm going to start working on it today as DS1 really needs me aswell at the mo and it is unfair on him.

Snow??? I'm so jelous, we had a very slight scattering on Saturday but nada this year - I love snow!

Morning all.

Obs oh honey BIG BIG hugs to you and DH. Get to the docs ASAP, I am sure that if you tell him / her that both of you are feeling so bad they'll rush you through.

Well J had his second night in the cot and woke up screaming after an hour. I fed him, put him back only for him to wake 30 mins later crying. so this is what I did:

I KNEW he'd had enough food so I did NOT take him out of his cot.

I sniffed bum, checked for sick & temp, made sure he was fully tucked in then..

Patted his tummy saying sssshhhh all the time. He did some huge farts (and probably a poo) and started to settle so I decreased the pats to just a few and held my hand. Once he was calm I got back into bed, saying ssshhhh all the time. I then reduced the ssshhhes and he wimpered but I carried on and he dropped off. That was 3:30 and we got up at 8!!!!

It was hard to not pick him up but I am so glad I did it. It's what a nurse did in hospital last week - and I consider them to be experts at settling grizzly babies!!!

'held my hand' = held my hand on his tummy.

morning ladies!

obs i second what everybody else saying, you sound very upbeat and positive through what must be a VERY tough time.

buzz that sounds like my house exactly! E sleeps well from about 11pm but during the day he will only sleep more than 10mins if he is being held!

dozy i have just ordered GF the new contented little baby book, is it too late to start using some of her principles when baby is now 6 weeks??

mummynic i will be trying that sshhh-ing hand patting tonight!!!

buzz i meant to say, do tell how you get on today with trying to hold J less i am open to any suggestions......

chocolate it's not too late but it'll take a few days to see any results - I have had to stop and start a few times as J has been very ill twice now.

Aim to do the feeds at the suggested times first - the sleeping will then follow.

What I would suggest is reading the whole book first. I did it in hospital and there is a wealth of info in different places. Tips on night feeds are in a few places and make sure you read the 'Changes to make' which are after each routine... so routine for 2 - 4 weeks has a 'changes to make at 2 - 4 weeks' section straight after. Read the one for the routine you're currently doing and the next one too as they have tips on sleeping and feeding and likely issues.

I am so pleased with the sssshhhhing - but, as GF saya, you can only do it if you are certain that baby has had enough food at the last feed.

I agree with Dozy that they are too young for controlled crying. I, personally, believe that at this age they only cry for a reason but now they are a good few weeks old 'comfort' has been added to food, bum, wind and illness. So that's the one I opted for last night and I was right - especially as he'd woken up screaming - he was frightened.

GF says that they enter light sleep around every 45 mins around 6 / 8 weeks. I have noticed this to be true and this is when they need to settle themselves. But that doesn't mean they don't need help and reassurance to get back to sleep while they are learning this - hence what I did last night.

thanks mummynic that is good advice, i dont think i will follow it to the letter but am keen to try anyway, even the feeding/sleeping routine bit.
i will have a read through of it 1st.

i am bottle feeding so know that last night when i put E down at 10pm and when he was crying at half past it wasnt hunger! i definately think it was "comfort" he was needing and i am more than happy to give him a cuddle and settle him back to sleep but am keen to read a bit more about it and like you said they sometimes might just need a little bit of help to learn to settle themselves

twinkling, sorry for your DH and sleeping woes; you sound really upset so {{{{{hugs}}}}} to you. I would be loathe to do controlled crying at this age as well. By all means try and settle him in the prma, but maybe try the shush patting or else rocking the pram back and forth. What we have noticed with bumble over the last few days is that he is actually wanting company and stimulation. If he is left on his own too long when awake he cries until someone talks to him or he gets picked up. I don;t think you can get into too many bad habits at this age as they are crying for a reason.

I also appreciate though how hard it is having to deal with the baby when there is an older sibling to deal with.

Obs . You poor thing. {{{{{hugs}}}}} to both you and your DH. You have both really been through the mill in the last ten weeks and I can see why you are both so exhausted and at the end of your tether, but it will get better and you will enjoy DS2 and be glad that he made your family complete. While we can all give you words of advice and encouragement, none of us are going through it to the extent you are but you come across as being made of really stern stuff to cope with it all and stay so upbeat. I agree talking things through with your HV or GP as thoughts like that are Not Good; and get your DH to do the same. You have my number if you want to call for a chat as I can empathise with those feelings all too well.

Wise words from Dozy as usual ...you should write your own parenting book lovely!!

Got an email from juanitad yesterday.....she only lives in the same area as me, literally around the corner!! Another MN Nov co-incidence!

I do NOT like or support controlled crying.
Especially in babies so tiny. (Says Oblomov who left ds2 to cry one night, at about 4 or 5 weeks, downstairs in the moses basket, becasue I tried to switch off, becasue dh and I were so dog tired).

I agree with Dozy and prefer something more middle of the road - structured/ but teaching principals in a gentle , loving way, of how to get a baby to settle THEMSELVES.

All those with sleep problems, who dislike Controlled Crying, need to read :
E Pantley - the no cry sleep solution
and
J Waldburger and J Spivack - The sleepeasy solution
I read them last month. Never needed them with ds1.
It is middle of th road and helps you teach your child how to settle themselves. No crying involved at all.
I recommend it.

Twinkling, A baby carrier is great to get a baby to sleep or a walk in the pram, as well as holding or cuddling without thinking about sleep, the amount of times I have forgotten that one of mine is not going to sleep and phoned a friend or read a story to another dc and the baby goes off is massive. Always check wet, dirty, windy and hungry before you think he's not sleeping and music can be great for everyone. Controlled crying at such a tender age is not good for a baby who may feel insecure as a result. Perhaps a two year old could be in bed by 7pm to give you more time settling DS and give you the whole picture about how much he cries??
I am on my forth and he seems dreadful crying a lot but when given the time and affection he requires he is much happier and easy to settle. My DD (now two) did scream for eight months and co slept, upon reclection she may have had acid reflux or just plain miserable!!

twinkling - Yes my DH is still useless even when he does try to help. at your DH behaviour.
obs - Thanks for all your kind words and support. But I dont want your heart weeping especially with all you have/are going through. and for your DH too. Please get all the help you can. Where do you live? If I live near I will try and help if you want.
mummynic - congrats on your ssshhh method. I may have to try it.

sorry will have to come back later and read other posts and put my own on. Duty calls! Bookmark up to 9.35am.

hello
dm wow at your power walking!!

oblomov I am so sad you are going through such a tough time. I hope you get some helpfrom your GP.

As vbab says- and I say it to you, too, I just wish I could physically help.

Been going through a bit of a weird patch- the usual (she whom I will not mention anymore)being nasty then nice then nasty again. Read another thread lst night and showed it to DH and it gave us goosebumps as it was her, to a "T". SHe is Narcissistic. I have a name for it now. I just don't know what the next step is.

I'm back. Tried, as I think I posted last night , doing feed, bath and bed for 7pm with A last night which just did not happen. She fell asleep within seconds of coming downstairs on DH. She then woke shortly after and we put her in her bouncy chair. She then slept until 9.45pm and we gave her the last feed of the day. Had about half. ARGH. Will just keep trying I guess.

She then woke 1.50am for small feed by DH not me (becauase he was still on PC!). No wonder he is tired . Sorry I digress ... then woke 3.30am for what appeared to be cuddles whilst sleeping as she didnt act hungry and instantly fell back asleep every time I picked her up from the moses basket. Back to bed 4.30am . She then woke again at 6am for more of the same cuddles. I broke one of my rules as was exhausted and put her in bed with me until 7.20am when she woke for feed. I WILL NOT put A in bed with me again or allow myself to fall asleep cuddling her!!! Just something I feel strongly about.

Dont know what was up with A. Normally just wakes once before 7am for feed and most times goes back no probs. Anyone else had this? Apologies if anyone has described it before but I have a memory like a sieve. Keep telling her daddy and everyone else to stop cuddling her to sleep and holding her whilst asleep.

Also ... anyone else's DH been requesting/begging lightening his load IYSWIM . To be honest he is more and more coming out with comments about my norks or stuff and I'm beginning to feel uncomfortable. Dont get we wrong love the idea of a "rumble" but not sorted long term contraception, exhausted and feelings are mixed for DH at moment due to our troubles.

Afternoon all

Obs so sorry to hear about you and DH feeling rubbish - definitely speak to the doc asap and explain the urgency. Big hugs to you and your DH

Vbab you poor thing, at times like this we need all the support we can get so I am really at your family for adding to your trouble rather than helping. A big hug to you too.

Well done MummyNic on the shh-ing technique. We did that once too but I got such a dry throat (after 20 mins) we now put the radio next to his bed on a static station!

A quick question for you wise ladies:

Constipation M was going bright red and groaning before and I checked his nappy and he had a poo that was the consistency of play-doh not like his usual runny yellow ones so I think he has constipation . I have heard prune juice can help but do you know how I should give him this and what else might help?? Thanks

We are off to get M's jabs done - not looking forward to it.

choc hello

how mixed are you feeds? If you have increased to more FF, then could be the reason?? Also, what formula are oyu using for your bottle? If SMA GOld, it is notorious for constipation!

choc....cooled boiled water also good for constipation. I would try that first before opting for prune juice; in fact wouldn't give prune juice to such a small baby. Have a chat with your HV.

I'm not winning any prizes for motivation today. I sat down on the sofa at 9.15 for a cup of tea, and apart for a few trips to the loo/put babies to bed/feed bumble/feed me, am pretty much still here

pinky, for your situation with your mum. This time of year must be a bit of a trial for you, and I wish I had some advice.

pinky I am sure you have answered this before, but do you HAVE to have your mum in your life??? She just seems to upset you the whole time...otherwise maybe worth seeing someone to help you deal with coping strategies as to how you can deal with her and her "ways".......

Daisy I have been soo lazy whilst DH has been home. I am going to have to get up before 9:30 tomorrow as I'm meeting some friends!I find cold weather very demotivating.

Re- she who I will no longer name on here- it is complicated, clearly I have been manipulated for my whole life. I think ultimately I do need to distance myself but she has put herself so firmly between me and my siblings it feelsas though I will lose them as well. It's so bizarre- DH and I even refer to DB as golden boy- it's classic, apparently. .I do need to deal. I think I may need counselling as I really don't want my dcs to suffer through this.

hi, thanks for advice on oversupply/ reflux daisy, mummynic and pinky. wha would i do without mnet? i know i have oversupply and overactive letdown but didn't realise it could increase the reflux/ colic as ds1 was ok. makes total sense tho. at the mo, they get all day on one breast each, eg. j on the left for 24hrs and m on the right. daisy, if you do several feeds off one side, how do you stop other side not getting super engorged and exploding?

obs, do hope docs can help. must be so hard. i have one bad night and feel dreadful. 2 bad nights and i am losing it. can't imagine how you have both gone 10weeks esp with dh working and ds1 at school, and xmas etc.

pinky, about your mum. dozy's advice sounds good

mummynic, well co-slept for 7 months cos ds1 was PFB! and cos dh loved it. and cos he did not have a room of his own. did not realise he would not go down in the day. maybe a sling. friend of mine slinged her baby all the time for 3 months and he did not get into 'bad habits', he is fine now, she uses it occasionally still but not all day as before. also, you could get a battery run mobile for cot. mine got one as xmas prezzie from grandparents. they are expensive but am sure you can get off ebay for cheaper. tiny love do one, we have a mothercare one with lights. they just gaze at it totally fascinated and it seems to have helped endear them to being in the cot.

my babies are sleeping in cot now, most of the time during the night. i'm not that strict,sometimes put them in bed with me till next feed if they are not settling. other times they do settle fine. i don't cuddle them, but just being next to me seems to help them sleep. they don't much like being awake and not held, but i do just have to let them cry sometimes. with 2 babies and ds1 as well, it is not possible to hold them both all the time. i firmly believe ds1 should not feel like the last in order of importance. luckily dh around so he 'works' while holding a baby!

YUp yup. But I do know if 'coping' strategies will be enough- as it's al so calculated and draining.The description is here if anyone interseted.

MERRY I think the boobs get used to it in a few days.

merry, kellymom suggests expressing just as much as needed in order to relieve the pressure, but I've always managed without. It seems odd but it settles after a few days. I was bursting out of my bras a week ago and things are normal now with very little in the way of engorgment, and when I express it seems creamier much more quickly. I'm not sure how it works as it seems you are increasing demand by feeding off the one side, but somehow it regulates itself and actually decreases your supply.

bloody wonderful things these boobs of ours

pinky {{{{{{hugs}}}}}}. I went through life being told I was an accident (I wasn't; they never used any contraception), and my brother was definately the golden child in our family (and has turned out the worst ). I'm more comfortable with who I am now, but for years was told I was a horrible child, so much so that I actually believed it for many years. I was blamed for being spoilt and made to feel like it was my fault as well. I think now that I was just full of life and mischief, and if I was spoilt, well it wasn't me doing the spoiling was it?

Have you spoken to anyone about it? a counsellor perhaps?

Daisy thank you so much for sharing that, it sounds like you had a very difficult time.

I'm still reeling a bit from the shock of seeing her described so perfectly.