Post-grad Brookers book in here!

[TooImmatureTurtleDoves]

Thread 2.

I'm here and totally pissed off. Both boys been up for the last hour. Currently thinking I'll never have a full nights sleep ever again. Part of me just wants to give up bf so that at least I can rule out hunger at night if I know he is getting enough in the day. But I really don't want to give up as I struggled so hard to get here.

Oh Hawthers you poor thing. It really is soul destroying at times. Sorry I've nothing helpful to say but (((hugs))) and sympathies.

So angry with DH right now. Apparently it's really important he gets enough sleep because he has to go to work. I can go to sleep in the day in between feeding and doing jobs and looking after 2 kids! Er yes, we'll just leave our 3 year old DS to his own devices shall we?! FFS. I'd love to get up once for 5 mins to change a nappy and once for 30 seconds to put the baby back in her basket instead of being up for well over an hour every night.
DH's job BTW? Very important and dangerous. Sitting behind a desk making phone calls and filling in spreadsheets. I'm annoyed mostly because apparently his weekend sleep is just as important because he has lots of jobs to do in the garden etc. I've not him I'll not be asking for any help from now on and that I'll make myself ill doing everything for the kids so he can carry on with life as normal.

Argh. everyone asleep apart from me! Why am I wide awake? So annoying I'm with you scream. dh making yucky guttural sleep noises too so bed's a crap place to be. GRRR.

Sounds like a trying night all round doesn't it.

Scarlet I think I'd be cross too. For some reason my DH doesn't seem to be able to put together in his head that

(a) he finds ds1 quite tiring to look after at weekends etc, And on days like yesterday -wants to sell him on eBay he can be downright challenging,

(b) at weekends he always has me to help too so we're managing two children between at least two of us (plus any assorted grandparent-shaped visitors); and

(c) the rest of the week I do that on my own (while he likewise tackles man-eating staplers and looks at Very Big Spreadsheets from behind a desk).

He sometimes suggests I nap in the day - yes dear, around ds1 who doesn't nap any more, providing all 4 of us with something approaching a vaguely nutritious meal, keeping him supplied with beautifully ironed shirts, etc etc I should have time for a lovely 3 hour nap in the middle of the day right?

Pah! Husbands right?

Meant to add some hugs for everyone else and sleep-inducing vibes for all these wide-awake babies!

Oh and I quite like that gift Scream . We were given one a bit like that for ds1 with a hand impression, a foot impression and a photo in the middle and I'm debating looking for a similar one for ds2. But most kits only have 1 impression and a photo. I'm kind of thinking that I would like them to match so I could hang them together in the future? It's this sort of thing I'm after but can't find any for sale in this country! At the moment ds1's is in his room but I'm assuming he won't want it there forever so I was thinking I might hang them together in some corner or another. But therefore I'd really prefer one with 2 imprints and a photo so they match

i was awake too, just too sleepy to read posts, never mind write one.

we were visiting the in-laws and DH had said they'd talked about getting something in for tea. i was a bit when they suggested going out. we managed with a sleepy DS1 and playing pass the baby in the restaurant with DS2 so we could all eat. think they will be a bit traumatised as i had to feed R quite a few times, and MIL especially doesn't know where to look. hopefully she realised there was nothing to actually see though.

R had a big sleep when we got back and actually stayed asleep when we went to bed Not sure what happened the rest of the night...

I've curry stained 1 bib and 1 white sleepsuit so far musical.

my entire sleep plan so far is still just go with it and hope for the best. I can't cope with a

crying baby at all, total wuss. DS1 slept a bit better from 9 or 10 weeks till the 4 month regression, then was up probably once or twice a night from 5ish months onwards. unless ill or something.

at the moment I'm just telling myself that DS2 is tiny and it can only get better. i am lazy so the path of least resistance thing suits me

DS2 could be totally different than big brother and i might struggle, who knows! i just find the less i think about it, the less stressed i get. if that sort of makes sense.

he's having a good go at getting his thumb in his mouth which is fine by me as that's when DS1's sleep got much better!

i find the days the worst, i feel like I've no energy and lose patience with DS1 too easily when he's being 'difficult'. :(

I was awake- of course- but too tired to post. Last night went better though as we went back to split shifts and dh had them from 10-3 :) I had to get up at 2 to express and as I heard loads of screaming, but it was post ebm bottle colic so nothing I could do about it :( . I got one more hour after that too, though DD did wake up at 6:30.

Is it just a fact that if you have a toddler your babies are constantly ill? Mine are so full of a cold again, plus both coughing, B worse than S.

jaggy, a restaurant, wow. Very brave, and good on you for just getting on and feeding. I don't think you see enough babies fed in public. I'll never be able to stick to a proper routine but the bedtime one was all we needed for DD so I'm hoping its the same with these two.

scarlet, poor you. I agree its impossible to sleep in the day and my DD naps but I can't manage to get all three asleep together... My dh is being really good though, he says having twins is the hardest thing he's ever done, but when he's not working he'll do until 3 like last night. He got 2 hours sleep in there too though last night. He's not off for 7 weeks after this though, dreading it!!

Fishcake, I'm off to check out your link and I agree about the numbers, I did say it didn't clarify whether there were other factors in there. hope the piano lives up to expectations :)

Oh, and sympathy hawthers totally rubbish. You will sleep again one day, hopefully soon. The one thing I didn't see on those stats was own-room death, try kicking him out ;-)

we are better from the 2 week bug, toddlers do seem expert at picking things up dream!

i had a very good top on for feeding last night, so the only bit where i was nervous was getting latched on. R seems to be at a stage where he gets too worked up sometimes, so DH had to walk him around the restaurant, then hand him back for me to get him on quick before he cried again! not terribly relaxing, but DS1 didn't get fed out and about at all till he was 10 weeks so i feel I'm coping better this time.

dream - I've been wondering that about colds/toddlers too. We spend a lot of time with other toddlers too so I'm guessing it probably is that.

hawthers - i feel like that too and last night A did a good stretch and I was awake for it, she stirred, I woke, she stayed asleep and I was wired for like two hours. Utterly pants.

jaggy - I feel for dd1 too as I am so grumpy with her in the am when she wakes up :(

My 'thing' today is full feeds into A at 2.5-3 hour intervals. I am aware I always have a new 'thing' by the way!

Thanks musical am on my way to see it now, will report back!

Morning all. One day we will sleep again.

pomme me too I always have a new strategy. We're concentrating on proper naps together with own room tonight then its going to have to be some form of controlled crying I'm afraid :(

Well done jaggy on feeding out and about

biscuits and scarlet with you on the rubbish chat from DH's about sleep. At least mine gets up with DS1. Last night there were significant portions if the night that neither DH or I were in our bed though

Right, come on all you babies. Your mummies need sleep!

Last night N went down at 9:30, woke at 1:30 and I eventually got her back to sleep at 5. 8am came round and she was screaming the place down again. She's been so good previous to that [sigh]

Jen Do you think N is having her first growth spurt? How old is she now? Hope you get more sleep tonight.

Good luck with your mission today Pomme. I've yet to try any strategies, we're still in the "going with it" phase, but I think I started to get DS into a routine around about 8 weeks so I'm thinking I might start soon with DD. That said DS was formula fed and could go 4 hours between feeds so was much easier. I'll be interested to hear tomorrow how tonight goes for you.

Good luck with own room tonight hawthers.

Sounds like you've had a bit of a stressful and lonely time fishcake. It must have been really hard to make a big move like that especially with a newborn. It's good that you have DD1 though to give you an excuse to get out to these groups and meet some new people. I hope it all gets a bit easier for you.

Dream I hope the colds clear up quickly. DD's hasn't really developed into anything more than a few snuffles yet. DS seems to have a cold once a month or so. It must be from playgroup. I hope it's all working to build up his immune system before he starts school or is that just a myth?

Jaggy sounds like you coped really well in the restaurant. I don't think I could BF in front of my FIL at all. I didn't BF in front of anyone apart from DH when I had DS. I've been a little braver this time and have fed in front of a few friends, my mum, sister and MIL. My Dad came over to collect my mum one day last week and I stopped feeding when he knocked at the door. Mum said I didn't need to stop and that he wouldn't mind! I was like er yes maybe, but I do!

Biscuits we just have a footprint impression for both DS and DD. Have you checked out Mothercare? They do various kits.

So, after me cluster feeding until 12.30am and then being up again from 3-5am with DD, DH has been helpful without being martyrish about it today. He took DS out this morning and has also changed the beds. Usually I take DD in her bouncy chair into the bathroom with me while I shower but I handed her to DH this time. I could hear her crying and then DH came into the bathroom carrying DS's potty with a big poo in it, also holding DD and also wearing baby sick on his t-shirt. I said nothing but I was laughing to myself

DD can withhold poo for days. Should I be worried? For the first couple of weeks at least there was a poo in nearly every nappy. For the last couple of weeks though she's changed her poo habits completely. That day we had at the theme park last Monday was the first time she'd pooed for 6 days. I didn't realise she'd done it until I lifted her out of her pram to put her in the car to go home. She was covered! I had her stripped off naked in the car boot and had to use wipes on her for the first time. She's only been once since then (on Wednesday) so I'm dreading the next explosion.

Hi Scarlet - thought I'd reply to the poo question as I'd been mentioning that subject earlier. I think at least a week without a poo can be ok for breastfed babies - as Dream said, they digest breast milk easily (though I was breast fed and apparently had such impressive absorbtion abilities I ended up with constipation later). DS was averaging one a day for a bit and then seems to go for several days without a poo. Was it Scream who pointed out that this has its advantages when it comes to numbers of nappy (and clothes) changes required?

Am sending some powerful vibes towards all those wakeful babies: you will sleep tonight, and none of us are brooking any argument about that!

Also, Biscuits I just loved your tray of tea and bacon butties! I'm picturing you as a sensible but jolly nanny who has a cuddle ready for all who need it. Now don't disabuse me of this happy image...

Right. Thought I'd keep going (DH and I are vaguely watching the football but he's also reading the paper so hasn't noticed that I'm on my phone!):

Fishcake did you get the piano? I'd love a little upright (can't really play but I do sing, and anyway, I think a piano is an asset for any home; DH disagrees and says we haven't got space but is currently storing his lawnmower in the front room ).

Hawthers isn't DS2 on high calorie formula for his last feed anyway, so it's unlikely to be hunger? When are you planning to introduce solids? Maybe that will help?

On the subject of helpful DHs, mine's been on holiday this week and really good, but he did tell me today (in the context of needing to clean the house more frequently when the dog is moulting) that looking after DS isn't a job. Given that he's already worrying about the cost of childcare if when I go back to work, I didn't bother to argue. Just smiled serenely and planted my flag on the moral high ground.

I wish I could be grown up and not bother to argue pet, dh and i had another stinker this morning... :( . We know its the sleep deprivation mostly, and slog of 3 babies but its horrible.

I was wondering about F's high calorie milk too. Could he have an extra bottle of that in the night given by your dh every other night of course ? Dh and i sometimes up together for long periods. Soul destroying... Trying to get the boys and DD down now. Not happening all round. S projectile vommed everywhere after his feed, B did big poo when he looked a bit drowsy, DD shouting intermittently. Gah.

My blocked duct is worse. I'm feeling shivery and achey and sore with a temperature. Suppose I should be grateful S puked, at least he's back on the boob now. I'm brooking for myself it doesn't become proper mastitis, like last time, or the wheels will well and truly fall off the wagon here...

Waiting for fishcakes piano update and waving to everyone else

I was wondering about solids too hawthers? I weaned dd1 at 4 months - dd2 will deffo be later but I'm not over concerned about getting to 6 months. i did quite a lot of research last time and 6 months is quite a 'catch all' recommendation. There are some pluses to weaning earlier - especially, actually if baby is still getting bm.

I am also in awe of you pet by not retaliating. dh said the same thing to me in dd1's newborn phase and I think I hissed at him for days over it still getting a bit annoyed now thinking about it.

Oh, scarlet - for the most part I did manage 2.5 hours between feeds today and the feeds were pretty much 30 mins long each time (instead of 5-10 mins every 90 mins or so). I think that it's probably the right thing to do - she's 15 weeks tomorrow so I think we should really be aiming for 3 hours between feeds over the next few weeks.

I'll left you know if it helps the sleep!

Fishcake, how was the piano? Did you get it? :-) Pet, I'm definitely of the option that a piano makes a home, but as a pianist I'd be slightly biased ;-) we have two (one electric for composing), and I've already spent time at them with DD playing and singing! Partly to keep my fingers up to speed mind.

I'm frankly quite scared by these poos that build for days. DD usually does a massive one ('poosplosion') once a day. I dread to think how horrendous it would be if that one were left to build..

Dream, hoping you get the boys down soon, and really hoping it doesn't turn into mastisis.

Scarlet glad DH was helpful (and that he had to deal with lots, to demonstrate just how much work you do!).

Jaggy, well done on the restaurant feeding! I've nursed in front of family (close and extended) and friends, but haven't yet had to try it out and about. I expect I will on Tues, as I have a breastfeeding support group to head to, followed by attending the clinic to get DD weighed. Then again those are both situations where whipping your top up and getting your nipples out is considered completely normal...

Blimey. I'm clearly well in the minority. It drives me truly crackers that bf isn't more openly done in public, when its the most natural thing ever and our culture is one of such embarrassment around it :( . If I'm hungry or thirsty in public, I'll eat or drink, ditto for my toddler so why not my babies?! I bf my duo whenever and whereever they need it, playgroups, waiting rooms, picnic benches, pushing DD on the swing at the park when I was alone with the three (can't recommend that for ease or comfort), in front of friends and relatives. I've never had any negative comments and have asked- like at the wedding, I asked if it was ok to feed at the table (granted, doubt anyone would have outright said no, but i hope I'd have picked up on hesitancy/horror!!). in fact at the wedding we went to we were laughing about it later as its so discreet if you want it to be, a bloke at the table next to us said he was looking at the baby for ages before he realized he was being fed not cuddled and suddenly thought oh shit, her hubby will think I've been staring at her boob all this time!! I'm not saying everyone should whip a boob out everywhere, but for those who want to feed wherever and whenever is needed I just wish you didn't have to think about doing it, let alone ask and try to gauge reactions. In some ways I wish I was braver and didn't ask, just got on and fed my babies. Rant over :)