The brookers post graduate thread

[hawthers]

We've got so good at brooking no argument for no pregnancy complications and sneeze births, we're going for our Phds in big fat babies

Enough me me me though! Sending lots of No Brooking to Dream and her DH, who are dealing with real challenges!

scream - posting and running but hormones don't stabilise until 12 months post birth. Dont be hard on yourself but EAT! Low iron can affect milk production - talk to hv/imw xx

scream it is tough all the time i've found it just varies which bit is shit! Sort out the stuff you can control like eating regular meals and resting/napping when you can. It's all about survival and don't be afraid to cancel people if its too much. They'll understand and it will get easier.

Agree with Pomme - hormones can be haywire for flipping ages so don't feel like you have to be all 'together' all the time. You're not even 3 weeks in yet. And frankly, sleep deprivation is evil - its not a form of torture for no reason!

And yes - eat something. See if you can get DH to cook you something nice and irony - after ds1 when I was on iron tabs bash used to cook steak etc for dinner and lots of green veggies. Oh, and if you think your iron is low maybe see about getting iron tablets or taking a supplement until you even out iron wise? (or iron out the iron levels if you will - ha ha ha)

Re the sleeping thing - with ds1 we tried to start a bit of a bedtime routine to help with defining night and day. Think he was about 3 weeks and we always did feed one boob, bath, feed from the other side then bed. (and that's morphed into all his bedtime routines since then). He wore outfits in the day and napped under a blanket but after the bath it was a sleepsuit and sleeping bag. Don't know how much difference these things actually made, and it isn't a quick fix but it seemed to work eventually? I do think it was easier then though as the nights were getting darker rather than lighter! Also with ds1 we worked really hard trying to get him to settle in his pram after 'bedtime' - it was a hard slog but we got there by about 10-13 weeks? And he's been a wicked sleeper ever since.

I know they're all different though so I'm not suggesting that he sleeps well because of what we did - I think he was just destined to be a good sleeper iyswim?

Ds2 seems to have 'got' it easier and seems to just let us put him down awake (so far, touch wood etc etc)

You'll get into your own sort of routine eventually though. And if she's awake in the day eventually she's bound to sleep a bit more at night. Maybe tonight will be your night?

I did similar to biscuits routine wise scream with DD. I think it works. I started st 4 weeks. Have started with the dts, no dressing, but a bath, boob, sofa ( so not perfect) now. And i hear you. Too stressed to sleep? Check. Wrong day/night set baby/babies? Check. Suddenly hit the wall? Think I'm scrabbling around in the foundations somewhere :( . Dh not enjoying the dts newborn period at all which makes me sad (though he loves the boys), loads of bickering, all a slog. I think its normal, and yet another un-discussed part of child rearing. I blame the hormones and sleep deprivation. But at least I get more pleasure from the dts than dh seems to now...

Oh, and DT1 bottom way worse today. And hv says not using gaviscon enough with DT2 if taking over 2 hours after a feed for his reflux to settle,& she watched him after a feed and reckons he definitely needs it, poor little tike. (I keep not giving through tiredness/ the faff/ 2 screaming babies and possible shouting Toddlet too).

((((HUGS)))) Scream sorry to hear you're having a shitty day

Re the iron, please go and get some iron tablets. If your iron levels are low you will feel so much better for taking them. I'm currently on 3 per day and I've been told it will take 6 weeks for them to take effect properly. If you're not having any already, the sooner you get them in your system the better. (Don't forget to get the Lactulose at the same time also - they do cause serious constipation problems).

I begged DH to make me a dinner with some vegetables in tonight. He's not used to cooking and so far since DD we've lived on spag bol, curry, lasagne, pizza and fajitas. I feel better already for eating some broccoli. You know you need to eat regularly so I'm sure you won't make that mistake again.

I think we're in a similar place in that DD has also been awake all night for the last 2 nights. The night before last it was 4am before she finally fell asleep. When DS woke up at 6.30am I did actually cry. Last night we were up between 3.30 and 6am. The benefit of it being second time round is that this time I know it is only temporary and it won't be like this forever. Scream take my word for it, it will get better. It might be another 2 months or so but you will get there. In the meantime it is a case of survival and grabbing naps when you can. You've been through so much with your pregnancy, you're still recovering from that and your CS. You need rest as much as possible.

You ladies are so lovely, thanks for all your support!

I know I've been stupid with the meals, I just don't seem to ever really get hungry, I'm just tired all the time. I need to make much more effort. I've started taking iron supplements again today, I haven't needed them while pg because of the pg vits, I forgot I'd have to go back to the iron supplements after the birth.

I'm sooooooo dreading the next 24 hours. DH is working tomorrow so he won't be able to take DD at 5 am as usual. He's looking after her now (while I fret and post on MN, instead of actually getting to sleep!) but when he goes to bed it'll be just me and her all night and all day tomorrow. [scared emoticon]

Sorry to hear Scarlet's DD and the Dreamy twins aren't sleeping well either. No Brooking for you both! Dream I totally empathise with everything in your post! DD seems to bring up half of every feed whenever I lie her down, no matter how long I keep her upright for after each feed. Plus DH and I seem to be constantly at each other's throats, with artificial interludes whenever guests are round

Thanks for the routine advice Biscuits. I wanted to just let DD do her own thing until one month old, but I don't think I can make it that far! I'm going to tough it out to 3 weeks (next wed) and then start trying to wake her up more during the day in a bid to get her to sleep more at night. Thanks for the tip about the 2 hour naps, I didn't know that and it makes a lot of sense!

Pomme thanks for the point about the hormones! I thought they were meant to have stablised by now, so it's a relief to hear I'm not actually going crazy!

Hawthers thanks for the advice about canceling visitors when it all gets too much. I'm so tired it genuinely hadn't occurred to me to cancel any of our plans - how stupid is that!?! Since we officially opened our doors at the 2 week mark it's been a nonstop round of visits. I have now cancelled our plans for tomorrow though, there's no way I'd be able to cope!

Apologies yet again for more me me me. I know I've been really lucky compared to the challenges you've all been facing. I promise to stop whining now!

Good to see you've got a plan scream and I quite often find it easier to deal with f on my own than when DH is here sa you know where you are and what you've tried/when you last fed/autumn last slept. Tv is your friend kick back and relax.

As for bickering with DH yep def still doing that here regularly. Sleep deprivation makes me ratty and over sensitive about doing the right thing. Not very happy news I know but hope you are reassured its not just you? It will get better

Oh, the bickering- over who is most tired, who had it hardest for their bit, and any little thing in between is quite astounding here... Very very fractious babies tonight. One is chuntering in his own room, one is asleep on my chest now. God I'm tired. They've driven dh to the brink! He has managed to let me have two hours sleep but I reckon that's it for tonight...

I've got a night light on in the dts room, but its quite bright really- I can see whether their eyes are open or shut etc. Is that too bright for all night?? Desperate to get a routine going. Praying they don't wake DD up through the stud wall, but trying the eviction from my room root as its the only thing that helped with DD. Results so far- poor!!

scream the dread of no dh will be worse than the reality. You and Autumn will be fine.

I'm off to swap the chunterer for the sleeping one. I can guarantee the sleeping one will then wake up and I'll have both n then not bother to take back to their room as they're doing their usual non settling = experiment over. well, we'll see. Bloody babies.

And scream, you've had huge challenges you daft thing!

Great news on the weight gain Scarlet !

Pomme from my friends' experiences I'd say 2 years old is pretty young for potty training so don't worry if it doesn't work out this time. You can always have another go next month when the weather will be better and DD1 can have accidents outside not on your floor

Oh Scream sounds like you're having a really hard time :( no brooking that Autumn figures out the difference between night and day soon so you can get a bit more sleep. And that you're ok without DH. Remember you don't have to get dressed before noon or at all if it's easier not to.

Agree with Dream and Hawthers that the dread of no DH is often worse than the reality of doing it on your own. I was terrified that I wouldn't know what to do when DH went back to work with ds1. (It didn't really bother me at all this time )

But really, you have to just get from one end of the day to the other and feed both of you. That's it. Anything else is a bonus. So kick back and relax. Watch some
Tv, snuggle with Autumn if she's awake (or of she's asleep!). If you can sleep when she does or at least try to rest if she does. If you're worried about getting yourself fed, maybe DH could make you a packed lunch sort of thing before he goes?

Has your DH already gone back to work or is this is first day back?

Anyway, that's what I reckon for a day without DH. Anything you do over and above resting yourself and feeding Autumn is a bonus. You're still not even 3 weeks post CS and on top of the CS you had an extremely physically demanding pregnancy and you have to recover from that too. So getting anything else done will come in tiny little steps.

I do appreciate that it's incredibly hard to do anything when you've not slept all night.

Oh and bedtime routine wise, with ds1 I always tried to do it at the same time, which made it more stressful with the feeding etc (as I always wanted him to feed about 6-7ish so would get a bit stressed about it of he was hungry at say 5 that it wouldn't fit with bedtime). I've realised with ds2 that it doesn't matter what time I make bedtime. He can't tell the time! So I just do the pj / sleeping bag swap thing at whatever time he feeds around DS1's bedtime iyswim. Just whenever is close to 7 ish give or take. As they get a bit older and the feeds get more predictable you can start aiming to get to a bed 'time'. At this stage it's just getting them to realise that they've swapped from 'day' to 'night' .

And you know we're here to hold you hand while DH is at work . Hope you're getting some rest and Autumn isn't partying too much overnight.

Same for you Dream - hope the own room experiment works out. Might it take a few nights for them to adjust or for there to be an improvement? Good news maybe if at least one of them is the sleepy one? Sorry to hear DH is not enjoying it that much - it must be incredibly hard for both of you to manage what you're managing and there can be scarce little 'down time' to just enjoy them with the constant demands. But you know This Too Shall Pass. Gradually they'll become more enjoyable and less labour intensive

Thanks Dream and Hawthers! Who knows, maybe the energy saved by not arguing with DH while he's at work, will compensate for the reduced support?!

No Brooking for the DTs and little F to give their Mummies (and Daddies!) and break!

I hope Dream's DH is able to salvage some enjoyment of the DTs at this stage as well. The only thing keeping me sane right now (other than you wonderful ladies) is just how much I adore Autumn. She's still the best thing that's ever happened to me, and despite how badly I need to sleep I'm already mourning how quickly she's growing (0-3 mths clothing already! )

X-posts with Biscuits and Pet, thanks ladies! It is DH's first day back tomorrow, so we'll see how it goes. I appreciate all the advice, I like the idea of a packed lunch and sofa day!

Also appreciate the bedtime routine advice. That will definitely be experimented with shortly. Right now I'm trying to get DD to take a dummy. My mw thinks that being used as a human pacifier is contributing to my huge milk oversupply as well as making it harder for DD to settle in her cot. So fingers crossed this will also help as soon as DD stops getting mad at the dummy for not having any milk in it!

Ah sounds like a good idea with the dummy - are your boobages still engorged? Hope she gets on board with the dummy soon xx

Ha! It went as predicted last night. They often sleep, if cuddled, never if put down. That said they did nearly 2 hours asleep together in their travel cot making it officially our best night ever.

I feel really sick. It better pass quick, I can't do illness now...

Biscuits the engorgement has pretty much passed thankfully. On the right side my boob has actually gone down to a reasonable size (although it's still like a never-ending fountain of milk). On the left side it's no longer rock hard and shaped like an anime character's boob! However it's still way overfull, and very uncomfortable. Trying to use my right side more, to give the left side a chance to go down, but I'm worried I'll just end up increasing the size of the right side!

Where is everyone today?

So much for my cancelled plans today... My Mum has decided to come round here instead of us going to her house for dinner. I'm going to change out of my pjs but there will be no tidying or prepping of food for this visit!!!

Scream I hope your mum is bringing food to yours! You'll probably feel better for having got out of pyjamas for a bit. Glad to hear boobs are improving slightly - hope you can persuade Autumn of the benefits of a dummy soon!

Bit of a miracle here. Yesterday I read 'Secrets of the Baby Whisperer' and it was like a light bulb going on in my head - suddenly I felt like I understood DS and what he wanted! So today I decided to try to follow her E.A.S.Y. routine (more of a pattern, really) and tackle the issue of DS needing to be cuddled to sleep. So after a feed and some calm alert time, I recognised his sleepy cues (which I would have mistaken for feeding cues last week!) and settled him in his basket - and he fell asleep needing only one extra cuddle for reassurance! That book is brilliant!!!!

Overuse of exclamation marks there, but I am so excited that my son can settle himself - now I might even get to lie down at night! Realise it won't all happen at once and I'll have to be persistent and not give in to cuddles for an easier time in the short term, but - wow!

That is all.

Pet that sounds amazing!! I've heard of the EASY routine but I haven't actually read the book. I was just thinking that I might need to try a flexible pattern like that, if I'm going to implement Biscuits' advice of keeping daytime sleeps to 2 hours max, as well as trying to keep DD awake more during the day. I think I'll pop that book in my Amazon basket... It's not one of the 4-hourly routine books then? I really don't want to live my life by the clock!

Actually DD and I have already been out today. After she was up all night, she finally slept for about an hour between 5 and 6, and then woke up bright-eyed like she'd slept for the whole night! I went a bit loopy through lack of sleep around 8ish, and decided to get us both up and dressed and out of the house. We ended up stumbling walking around the common for an hour in the sunshine, but she was STILL wide awake! Did manage to convince her to sleep for two hours after we got home, but then she was up again. Not sure how long I can maintain this pace...

I'm tempted to read that book too Pet and Scream. Although both my ds's have never really been awake after a feed. Often they're asleep straight away.

I can't lay claim to the 2 hour map thing though -was it Dream and Pomme. It makes a whole lotta sense though.

I have to confess that DS used to have 3-4 hour naps right up until he was about 3. . But it never integrated with him going to bed so I never fussed too much. In fact DS1 used to sleep until day 6 o clock sometimes and I'd wake him Jo, hive him his tea and then out him back to bed at 7 and he'd be fine with that .

I can't keep my eyes open today

Oh but WELL DONE MiniPet for settling yourself

Now make sure you do it at night so mummy can get sub xx

My Mum's visit was great in the end, I always underestimate her! She took DD out for a 90min walk around the village and I actually got some sleep! DD was still awake for most of the walk apparently, so she was a bit overtired when they got back unfortunately. Fingers crossed for a quieter night as a result! Quiet or not, it's DH's turn to do the difficult first shift, and I'll be taking her at 5am for a change, can't wait! There are two bottles of ebm in the fridge so I'm hoping to get a whole 4 hours of uninterrupted sleep! Woohoo!

How is DS2 Biscuits? I hope you're not too bored cooped up inside. How is DS1 taking it?

No Brooking for the Biscuits and Dream households!