The brookers post graduate thread

[hawthers]

We've got so good at brooking no argument for no pregnancy complications and sneeze births, we're going for our Phds in big fat babies

MW has just been, DD has lost weight again . I can't believe it. I honestly wasn't expecting that today. Although she's still got an upset tummy, she's been feeding loads. Her poos are yellow and she feels heavier. I can't understand it. So she's now lost 10% of her birth weight and I've been advised to now give her formula top ups. The MW reckons a combination of the infection, the anti-b's and my anemia have affected my milk supply.

I'm not against giving her formula, I just didn't want to do it yet. I felt like we'd turned a corner the last couple of days. I'm wondering if it's because she put her scales in a different place to where the previous MW put hers but would that really make a difference? I feel really upset now, I've spent so long feeding the last couple of days and nights and I'm just so disappointed to give in at this stage.

Oh no scarlet that's not good news. What about ebm top ups?
Do you know where to go locally for bf advice?
Don't be upset you're doing an amazing job xx

i suppose it could even be different set of scales- I'd maybe try posting on bf board for tips? tiktok and other knowledgeable posters have always been helpful. unless purple has time for advice!

i think the standard advice is probably what you'll know already. feed at every squeak and offer lots of sides per feed.

my DS1 lost >10% prob because of extra fluid during cs and not feeding well with tongue tie. i did try wee ebm cup feeds, but tbh it was easier just to feed him myself after the effort of expressing (DH spilt my first ever tiny cup of ebm, i still remember being )

i did skin to skin this time round with DS2 when he was sleepy and not feeding so much, it seemed encourage him. had to wait till big brother was having a nap!

hope you get on ok.

Scarlet my love. Sorry to hear that DD has lost weight. And not nice at all when you're not expecting it .

Now don't feel as if you're giving up. This is just a little turn on the road of getting from birth to a fully weaned little person. So if there are a few little top ups required, it can just be a temporary thing if you want.

As you say, we know why she's lost weight. With a poorly tummy and the ABs etc it's not surprising. So yes, she might lose a bit but hopefully that will turn around when the ABs finish. And if you're anaemic then we need to get you bulked up on iron. I presume they've given you iron tablets? Get DH out to buy you steaks and green veggies for your tea.

What else is good for milk supply? I think fennel tea or something? I think I drank that last time when I had an issue. I've hear fenugreek is good for it too (but I have no idea what that even is? )

Oh and plain chocolate. I lived on Green and Blacks . Not entirely sure whether this was scientifically proven but I was prepared to give it the benefit of the doubt

Other than that I agree with Pomme. A few top ups doesn't have to be the end of bf if you don't want it to. As long as you can keep your supply going you can come back to bf or as long as you want to.

Did the mw say anything about the swelling? Understand if that issue got lost along the way if you were knocked off a bit by the weigh-in.

Take care - brooking that things take a turn for the better for you v v soon. Hopefully the end of these abs will herald a change in direction. When do you finish them? xxx

Maybe try the bf boards or the NCT bf helpline to see how to deal with it best.

Btw, how much did he lose Scarlet - it could be the difference in the scales or the position of the scales.

DS2 was weighed on days 11 and 13, both at our house but different scales and they reckoned he'd gone from 8lb 2 to 8lb 8

she lose, not he .

Thanks pomme, Jaggy and Biscuits

Biscuits she was 8lb 3oz at birth. 7lb 7oz on day 5. 7lb 8oz on day 7. Today she was back to 7lb 7oz.

As for the scales I have my suspicions. On day 5 and 7 they were placed on the carpet. Today they were placed on the table. I suspect today's reading may be correct and that she may have weighed even less on day 5 and 7. It has been a different MW each time and different scales each time. She definitely feels heavier today, DH agrees.

The difference between day 5 and 7 might only be one poo, or one feed or a slightly different place on the carpet. I have no idea. I just gave her a 25 minute BF. I had a bottle of formula made up ready to give her at the end but she fell fast asleep. If I were to wake her to try and give her it I may as well try and get her to have another BF. Gaaaahh What to do, what to do.

How did E get on with his jabs?

scarlet - If she fell asleep satisfied then it doesn't sound like your supply is an issue to me tbh..?

On day 9 dd2 on scales on a tiled floor was 7lbs 13oz and on day 14 was albs 7oz on scales on carpet. I know I NEVER weigh myself on scales on carpet for this very reason so I think you're probably right on that count.

I'm inclined to agree with the pommester - if she fell asleep full up then doesn't sound like supply is an issue. The difference in the weights around days 5,7 and today could easily be just different scales / location etc. and really an ounce either way isn't a great deal of weight. When are they next going to weigh her?

I wonder if Hawthers is around - I'm sure she'll have some good advice as F went through a bit of a slow weight gain I think?

Can you hear if she's still swallowing at the end of a feed? I would guess if you let her keep eating as long as she will / can then that's best for your supply. If she comes off when she stops swallowing then one can only assume she's full?

If she stays on and is still sucking but not swallowing then that's the bit telling your boobs to up the supply so either way is good. So I guess if she's having a spell of not swallowing at the end, then when she's put a good order in for extra milk, you could offer her the bottle.

Easy to come up with a plan though - I know it's much harder to know what do when you're there at the coal face as it were.

As Pomme says - there's a lady who posts on the bf boards who seems pretty clued up (Tiktok) plus our very own Purple who has said she's happy for us to pm her if we have any questions. They should be able to give you some pointers if you want to make sure your supply continues to build (if you want to stick with the bf).

Whatever happens, we're all behind you and brooking that DD gets her groove on with the 'eating and keeping it in' thing.

How are the boobs by the way? You said they were sore the other day? Hope they're ok xx

When do the ABs finish?

Hi scarlet sorry can't post full reply at the mo but will pop back later to pass on my tips x

Oh, and I think the jabs have gone ok so far, thanks for asking. Little cry when they were done but then seems ok since. Big sleep in the pram after as we walked about and got ds1 from pre-school. Then woke for a feed when we got in, slept soundly on my lap since the feed until I could drag my arse out of the chair to change his nappy. He do complain a lot about the nappy part of proceedings but has dropped back off again now I've sat down and cuddled him again.

He's been mega sleepy today actually - hope that's not a problem?

Spoke too soon on the jabs - baby now....

Sending lots of hugs to poor little E, I hope he settles down soon for Biscuits. I'm usually :( after jabs as well, so I feel his pain!

Big hugs to Scarlet as well, how disheartening! I completely agree with you that weighing on the table vs the carpet could easily make 1oz of difference, if not more. How frustrating to have inconsistent methods and scales used by multiple different mws! It sounds like you're doing everything perfectly though, so don't let them push you into using formula earlier than you want to. I'd be a little worried that if you do have supply issues (which is by no means clear!) then formula could worsen that situation couldn't it? On the other hand even if your DD genuinely lost 1oz (which is also far from certain) at over 7lbs that's really not going to cause her any problems in the short term is it? She's still perfectly healthy, and I'm sure she'll start gaining weight very soon. It seems like such a self-limiting problem, given the ABs and upset tummy both of which will be over very shortly. Of course top up with formula if that's what you want to do, I'm just saying don't let them push you into it if you're not sure.

Too I could have written your morning story! I do that kind of baby brain thng ALL THE TIME!! Boo to the lost sleep though :(

Pet yay for the lazy sofa morning. Compared to the hard working Mums of 2 (or 3) on this thread I am a perpetually lazy slattern! Most of my days are spent lounging around just feeding the baby and resting, while poor DH runs around trying to get the crazy mountain of washing under control and doing all the shopping etc. I'm going to have to start pulling my weight when he goes back to work though...

Autumn saw her first movie today! Avengers in IMAX 3D She was as good as gold all the way through, I couldn't believe the loud special effects didn't wake her! She only woke once, quietly fed, and immediately went back to sleep! I think the way to reconcile myself to her active nights is to take full advantage of her sleepy days!

Sorry for delay right this us what I did when we had weight/supply issues. I think everyone has different thresholds and personal issues so hopefully this will help give an idea of options. For what it is worth I think now the abs are over and you are feeling better it should sort itself iut but in the meantime we did this

• threw money at the problem by buying baby scales to eliminate the difference between scales and mw. If you are talking 1 oz then this is def within a margin of error. Our cost around £60 from amazon. Also means you can skip baby clinic :o

• got a lactation consultant around for a private consultation cost £90 for up to 2 hrs and inc telephone follow up. She double checked latch, tongue tie and technique. Also was totally supportive of my desire to fully bf so put a plan of action together as follows. Google lcgb I think and it should come up. I'm in london and used Anna cannon she was good.
• I fed f every 2 hrs in the day and every 3 over night
• expressed after every feed to stimulate supply and to use to top f up.
• took fenugreek supplement and multi vits
• ultimately I took domperidone to boost my supply after all of the rest of it didn't work as well as was needed.

We still ended up doing one bottle feed a day and I'm reconciled that that is how we are doing it. Basically you have to be happy with your plan and I think there are other things that you cab try before formula top ups.

I wish I'd given myself a bit of a break about all of this though and done a formula top up earlier but I wouldn't have listened to anyone who suggested that though and I think it is important to try all you want to depending on how passionate you are.

Hope that makes sense. Please ask anything else I haven't covered. Good luck x

Hope that doesn't sound like I think you should top up with formula. I just meanp that I struggled with the waking f for feeds for weeks and weeks and waited until he was on the 0.4 centile so in hindsight I would have done things a little differently rather than grinding myself onto the ground.

Thanks everyone for all the advice. Hawthers thanks so much for sharing all of that, I know you had a really tough time I'm still thinking things through, but I do know that I don't want to give myself too hard a time. These early days are tough enough without beating myself up about this. Plus I am a fan of an easy life so I guess I'm becoming more open to the fact that formula may have a place in this house sooner than I thought it would.

I'm not going to make any quick decisions tonight though. IMO DD is still BFing well, my anti-b's will finish tomorrow and hopefully we'll both be feeling better by Friday. She's being weighed again at the weekend so I might stick it out and see what she weighs then. If in the meantime I feel as though she's not feeding from me enough I'll perhaps make up a bottle of formula and try her on it.

Scarlet that all sounds extremely sensible. You're completely right that there is nothing to beat yourself up about. I'm glad that you're being pragmatic about it, and what you're saying sounds totally right.

I am hoping that once those anti-biotics bugger off you'll both start feeling better And then everything else just goes one day at a time

In the meantime for you - you're doing amazingly

How are the ankles? xx

Feet and ankles are enormous Biscuits. I completely forgot to ask the MW about it during the drama of earlier. Thanks so much for Googling for me. It was Pretty much as I thought in that it will take a lot of elevation and time. We attempted our first trip out as a family of 4 earlier to get DS a new toy, but DD and I ended up having to stay at home as I couldn't find any shoes to fit and it's not been the weather for flip flops

I meant to say previously, yes I do have Lansinoh and it is definitely helping. Either that or my nips have toughened up anyway.

I hope E is feeling better now?

Scream you've been to the cinema? and

Scarlet, M lost 12% of her birth weight by day 5 and I was told to express and top up by 20-30mls at every feed, and to feed every 3 hours (the intervals to start from the beginning of a feed, not the end). I rarely managed to express more than 15 mls per feed. No one mentioned formula except as a last resort and I am that you were told to use formula when you wanted to ebf. One ounce is a ridiculously small amount to base this on - that could so easily be different scales etc. M's weight loss stopped and then she slowly started to put weight on, and then as you know started shooting up the centiles. You had an EMCS and an infection to hinder your milk supply, and the MW told me that a CS put off milk coming in by a day or 2, so don't be downhearted. Do you think yourself that your supply is low? Are your boobs engorged/leaking/can you hand express a little?

Sorry, will be back in a mo!

Morning all, hope we're all well.

Scarlet so sorry for the shoe thing! it is so not flip flop weather though - it was completely peeing down yesterday wasn't
It! Hope they start to go down soon (or that we get flip flop weather, or, even better, both!)

I genuinely don't know the answer to this, but when your feet are elevated would it help with the swelling to circle your feet? Or would that make it worse?

Warning - irritating post alert

Ok, so ds2 fed at 10pm last night, and then 6:45 this morning!!!!

He woke a bit at 1 ish but went back to sleep without me even getting out of bed, same thing at 4am. I mean literally he murmured a bit, enough to wake me, but not upset or anything. At 4, DH was getting up for work and we were chatting while
Ds2 sort of wriggled a bit, then I realised he'd gone quiet while we were talking and he'd gone back to sleep! Even at 6:40 he didn't sound super hungry (but my boobs were so full my rib cage hurt!).

Apparently jabs and calpol are the way forward!

For the record, I'm not really expecting this to be repeated and I think it was a lot to do with the calpol he had at 7pm last night.

But t'was nice anyway!

End of irritating post (hopefully unless you find all my posts irritating )

Hope everyone else is ok. Scream hope the boobs are starting to be less engorged. And that the Dreamy twins slept a bit last night. Is the colief helping at all Dream

Oh, and ds2 totally made dh's day last night. Dh had just asked if I'd seen any more smiles yesterday (I hadn't), Then we were doing the 10pm nappy change and we were both there - I said something to ds2 and he looked at me with a beaut of a smile . DH was so so excited . I'm really pleased that he's seen a smile a I know he feels very acutely that he's missing out a bit being so busy at work (he's had a mental week, even for him) and I was worried that it might take a few days before he'd catch a smile.

I thought the night shift was suspiciously quiet as I was up at 1, 3 and 5 (!!) biscuits.

All sounds good in the biscuits tin then, hope your dh has a quieter week next week.

My dh really annoyed me last night so even before Abbie kept me awake all night I was grumpy. DD1 is the only one in favour currently.

Rain again! According to the weather forecast between 10 and midday we can go out. I might take dd1 for some muddy puddle jumping in her wellies.

Hoping scarlet's week gets better and that dream is okay - haven't heard from her for a bit.

Oh Pomme I'm sooooo over all this rain!

We can't really even leave the house though since we're all still in PJs! Trying to convince DS1to get himself dressed while I'm sat feeding DS2 - but trying to convince him to do anything remotely while sat in a chair is v hard!

I have to have got ds1 to nursery and be back home tomorrow by 9am as the burglar alarm man is coming. No idea how I'm going to manage that as we haven't been dressed before 11 in almost a fortnight .

Biscuits, that is amazing! Well done E! That's better than M has ever done. We got 5 hours between 12.30 and 5.30 - I just wish she would go down earlier in the evening.

Scarlet, hope your feet start to feel better soon. Massage might help, if you can get your DH on the job!

Pomme, eurgh for such a disturbed night. Brooking for A to sleep better tonight.

SIL was pushing GF on me last night as the best thing since sliced bread. I didn't like to say that in MN's opinion Gina Ford = Antichrist, so I just smiled and nodded. It's funny, though - M sort of has a nighttime 'routine', in that she'll be Velcro baby from roughly 7pm onwards, feeding or being walked around the living room or being sung to, and finally conk out at 11/12ish. But she hasn't got anything even remotely resembling a daytime routine, or not that I've noticed.

In light of the above, am I crazy to try to go out tonight? I've got Mum organised to babysit and so far I've got a bottle and a half expressed and I'll do more as the day progresses. I'll be home by 10.30 or thereabouts. I just have visions of little distraught Bean finishing all the expressed milk by 8pm and howling for me. There's formula if she's really hungry, but she's never tasted it before and she might not like it.

I should admit that I can't moan too much as evening has been sorted (touch wood, fingers crossed etc!). The last 10 days A has gone down in her cot at 7 or 7.30 and I've woken her when I've gone to bed. Shouldn't moan too much about the rest I guess...

Too - Don't worry about routines, M's own one will become obvious when she's ready. How far are you going tonight? If it goes wrong can your mum ring you and you get back easily?