Money is pouring in for Kamala Harris as U.S. presidential candidate

[MsAmerica]

And I confess myself very surprised.

Kamala Harris' fundraising reaches a record-breaking $100 million since Biden's exit
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/07/23/fundraising-for-kamala-harris-tops-100-million-shattering-records/74509043007/

Historic flood of cash pours into Harris campaign and allied groups
www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/historic-flood-of-cash-pours-into-harris-campaign-and-allied-groups/ar-BB1qvtCj?ocid=BingNewsSerp

This. I'm actually really not pro abortion but I know the best way to lower abortion numbers is to support the women who need it as much as possible and improve their lives - which is why I'd never vote for a right wing anti abortion party.

@Zonder I don't think anyone is pro abortion. It's a necessary evil when things go wrong and prevention is always better than cure. I'd love it if there were such a thing as 100% fail safe contraception that was also 100% side effect free - there isn't. I'd love it if every pregnancy was guaranteed a healthy baby and a healthy mum at the end of it - it isn't. I'd love it if rape and stealthing didn't happen at all, ever - they do.

That's why we need safe, legal abortions and a framework of policy around them which keeps the rate as low as it can be.

I totally agree @pointythings

Crazy of that pp to say anyone wants to raise the abortion rates. Anyway I'm guessing they won't come back to defend the indefensible.

That's the point. It's the same one used by selfish children... Some people apparently never grow up.

That's great... But this is a thread about politics in the US. Which again, if you're not from here, maybe you shouldn't spend so much time worrying about it. Like I said before, Americans couldn't care less about UK politics because those are your decisions. We're content knowing you're an ally.

Progressive liberal policies and reality don't match up. You're deluding yourself if you think they are. Liberals are the party of abortion, and abortion ends the life of children in the womb. Those are facts. The yourself and everyone that what you want to rationalize it, but it won't make it true.

OK, so do you believe women shouldn't get to decide what happens to their bodies? And are you going to address the points I made a little way back in the thread about how you reduce the numbers of abortions effectively by looking at those countries which have very low abortion rates?

To be clear, I'm making fun YOUR argument and the third grade level at which all the pro-abortion liberals in here have used. The truth is, other women's bodies aren't yours to decide over, any more than they are mine. Each one is their own, created by God. So are those who are unborn. It doesn't make them any less than a life. It is a moral issue. And those in favor of calling the ending of a life a "choice" are on the wrong side of that moral argument.

The real issue is you are so entrenched on that side of the argument along with all other liberals, that it won't change... Because you have found your identity in your political party and the identity of the party is abortion. You are stuck. You couldn't change your mind if you wanted to at this point, regardless how much sense it makes to do so. We should all be working to protect as many unborn lives as we can, but that won't happen because of you if you are a liberal.

OK, so set out your stall: you are opposed to ALL abortion. Yes?

Your God argument doesn't wash - no such entity exists.

Why is it a good thing to kill unborn children? Liberals like to talk about protecting the most vulnerable, but never actually seem to do it.

What blows my mind is I an an independent voter with conservative values, and without fail, each liberal in here has attacked, insulted, obfuscated, changed topics, etc, etc. Anything but engage in respectful dialogue.

Thing is, there is no respectful dialogue to be had with a militant member of the forced birth brigade. This is because their position is inherently disrespectful towards women. They don't even see the pregnant woman and her unborn child as equal; no, the unborn child must always take precedence. This leads directly to the deaths of women. This happened in Poland after their ultra conservative government introduced an almost complete abortion ban - women died. Then there's Savita Halappanavar, whose death ultimately led to the legalisation of abortion in Ireland.

Why is it a good thing to kill women?

Why do you worship politics? How does someone find their identity in such a radical and extreme way, that you can't handle disagreement?

Everyone else understood it. Seems the problem is looking at you in the mirror.

I am an American. This is a thread about American politics.

But since you framed it ridiculously, I'm going to give you a ridiculous answer. But first a question... How do I vote for President of the world and where can I read about their policies on abortion?

It's not about disagreement though, is it? It's about making a choice between a political party that will erode the rights of women, LGBT people and workers and a political party which, whilst also imperfect, at least has far better intentions towards those who are part of my family. You're free to disagree with me. I vehemently disagree with you. That's all fine. What matters is safety - and under the conservative evangelical right, too many of the people who matter to me are not safe.

Nobody here worships politics. We are interested in it because it affects us. That should be pretty obvious.

These are some fantasticly terrible observations you've just made. Which I think just shows how extreme liberal progressive ideology on abortion is.

Not sure why you're so juiced up about Nazis. It's a huge dark point in European history, that most other people try to guard against. Yet even with all that consensus and effort, policies from that ideology still remain today. Wild.

I made perfectly valid points - unless you're a complete isolationist who believes that it is impossible to learn from the ways other countries address major social issues. The evidence is perfectly clear - if you want there to be fewer abortions, you look at the policies of countries which have very low abortion rates. If you don't want to see your government use methods which actually work, I can only assume that what you really want is to control women - your mention of God lends weight to that assumption.

Why is it a good thing to kill unborn children?

It's not a good thing, it's morally neutral. Because the cerebral cortex is not fully developed (not until about 26 weeks) the fetus has no consciousness. There is no awareness, no thoughts and no feelings. It can't even experience death. This is why they have no rights. If you have no consciousness, you have no use for rights.

You forced birthers are not fighting a brave moral struggle such as you delude yourselves that you are. You're merely making women's infinitely more difficult, and in many cases they will be in actual reproductive slavery, which of course is the real goal of forced birthers.

@XChrome I would also add that sometimes there is a straight choice between the survival of the unborn and the survival of the woman - this is where the forced birther argument falls down.

Then there's the issue of much wanted pregnancies where the baby turns out to have health issues incompatible with life. I use the word 'baby' here quite deliberately because when you are experiencing this in a planned, wanted pregnancy, that is what it is. It happened to a friend of mine - she had an abortion at 26 weeks due to NHS diagnostic delays. Her other choice would have been to carry the pregnancy to term, give birth and then watch her baby die within the hour. This is the kind of cruelty the forced birthers thing should be inflicted on women.

My position on abortion is very simple: prevention if at all possible, then as early as possible and as late as necessary.

Thought you had a problem with insult? It is gibberish.

If these points are terrible, why can't you refute them or even explain why they are allegedly so terrible?

In fact, Nazi Germany had a policy like you do, anti-choice. So-called Aryan women were not allowed to have abortions, whereas Jewish and gypsy women were forced to have abortions.
So when you say policies like that exist today, you need to be pointing at yourself and other forced birthers.

You are the one who brought Nazis up, and you accuse me of being juiced up about it? I think you mean fired up, btw. Juiced up usually means on steroids. You seem to have trouble with common American idioms as you keep mixing them up, though you claim to be American.

That is a sound and sensible position.

Actually I don't think that. Like I said, I'm not anti -abortion. If you understood what I've said, it's that abortion is overused. I can't speak to all women. I wouldn't even if I could.

What I tell my daughter is that relationships are auditions for spending the rest of your life with someone. And if a guy can't control himself now, he's going to have a hard time controlling himself when married... So part of what you should look for now is a guy that will wait for you, because of he's willing to do that now, he is probably going to remain faithful.

As for rape and incest, I support abortion in those circumstances. I support medically necessary abortions. I don't support abortion outside of that.

As for the data on abortion across the globe. I'm not trying to sound like I'm avoiding that information, but I don't trust it. Even here in the US, we don't have good data... And I really didn't think Albania, Turkey, Algeria, and Croatia are truly in the top 5 for abortion rates. I think that's just bad data. So I don't know if we're there yet on looking at other nations to learn lessons from them.

And while I hope that abortion is decriminalized in more nations, I also know that those decisions are not even remotely in my realm of influence. So I'm not going to waste time thinking about it.

And that explains why you worship what you worship.

They weren't worthy of a reply. Won't make that mistake twice though.