Media coverage deliberately biased against Corbyn, British public believes

[claig]

The public understand the media's game.

There is no fooling the public or the Corbynistas. The usual tactics of the metropolitan elite have failed.

"Perception of unfairness extends beyond supporters of Labour leader"
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A majority of the British public believe the media is deliberately biased against Jeremy Corbyn and seeking to portray him in a negative light.
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Women in the Labour selectorate were more likely to believe the coverage was biased than men and older people in the group were also more likely to believe it had been deliberately biased "

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-poll-labour-leadership-media-bias-believe-against-him-supporters-mi5-portland-a7225031.html

'Are you a member of the Labour Party ?'

No I am a member of no party at all and that is the way I like it. I am with Groucho Marx on that, I don't want to join any party that would have me as a member. I am a floating vter to the end and am not committed to any of the Oxbridge graduates and will only vote for the ones that display an ounce of common sense, which is why I am considering withholding my vote at the moment.

'what has Corbyn done ?'

He has put real left wing politics back on the agenda. He defeated the Tories over the Welfare Bill, forced a reversal over academies, supported strikers, supports the unions unapologetically, told the "magic circle" to get stuffed, enthused millions of young people and brought former Labour members back, said he woukld scrap tuition fees, implement free lifelong learning, support our steel industry, overturned Blairism and the entire Oxbridge consensus and did all of that while facing an Establishment coup of the 172. He has transformed British politics and given hope to millions of socialists and scared the living daylights out of Blair. And all that in just one year, what will he do over a decade? The Establishment and the "magic circle" don't want to wait to find out which is why the 172 have been given instructions to end the people's revolution and bring Corbyn down.

'He would have been made to explain himself and these conspiracies on national tv which would leave most watching think wtf is this man going on about and he wants to be PM'

Trump does it all the time and grows ever more popular as he does it, but Trump has extraordinary courage and we have seen that Corbyn does not have that quality, but he does have other qualities.

No he didn't defeat the Tories over the Welfare Bill (though he tried to claim it was his doing the other night) it was the House of Lords that did

And the academies uturn was down to opposition within the tory party itself

You know more about politics than believing this was Corybn's doing

Mmm the British public and the American public have different outlooks on politics and how their countries are run and the relationships with other countries in the world

Many Labour supporters would like a more left wing government but we are not a left voting country and we need to be realistic Corbyn has no idea that why so many advisors have quite and walked away and neither does he want to listen so all be will end up doing is leading a poor opposition (like he has done so far) and lose more voters

But without Corbyn's principled position on these issues, the Tory-liters would probably have put up no opposition. Corbyn's stance has an affect even on the Lords.

'but we are not a left voting country '

There is no never in politics. We beat the Establishment over Brexit despite the tricks of their best and brightest and their international mates who told us it would be "the end of Western Civilization". The people are singing "Ain't No Stopping Us Now. We're on the Move".

We have to wait and see what Corbyn comes up with. Cheaper housing, better education, better healthcare, better treatement for the elderly, support for nationalized industries, better workers' rights, more secure employment and an end to zero hours contracts ad the casualisation of labour, no more wars over oil and for the bankers etc are what nearly everybody in teh country wants apart from the "magic circle". All the "magic circle" have got to counter it is the 172 and cries that "you can't afford it", but if Corbyn explains how he will tax the "magic circle" to pay for it, then he could be onto a winner.

What Corbyn has achieved is to make politics real and relevant again which is why hundreds of thousands have joined the Labour Party in the hope that they will be listened to and that they can play a part in creating change. If Corbyn opens up policy making to the members, then the Oxbridge teams are finished.

The BBC are desperate. Everytime they put a Blairite spinner on Newsnight, Momentum sign up another 10000 members. BBC honchos must be receiving daily bollockings from the "magic circle" to turn it around, but they are running out of ideas.

He doesn't have influence over the majority of his party though does he .... That is why there is the 172 you keep banging on about

He can promise what he likes but the public also want to know how he is going to put those proposals into action this is where he fails

And voting isn't going his way no one can claim it is

'He doesn't have influence over the majority of his party though does he'

No, unfortunately, he doesn't. We will have to see if he beats them and makes it or if the Establishment finish him off and end what he calls a "social movement".

'He can promise what he likes but the public also want to know how he is going to put those proposals into action this is where he fails'

I agree. The public, and me too, are getting sick of his weakness and McDonnell's, and they want to see some actin and for him to get a grip and beat the 172. I am not sure he has it in him, he is a not a Trump, and if he can't do it, then the Oxbridge spinners will take control again.

'And voting isn't going his way no one can claim it is'

His first priority is to win the Labour vote against the 172 and it looks like he may make it. The public vote and a general election is probably still some time off.

'If Corbyn opens up policy making to the members, then the Oxbridge teams are finished.'

This would really be revolutionary, if he does it. Instead of ordinary people just voting for policies decided by the Oxbridge teams at a general election, they could actually determine those policies. How good is that? Labour would probably get millions and millions of members if they did that. A chance for ordinary people to have their say. Brilliant. Members in other parties would be jealous and it might have to spread. Real democracy, the end of the stitchups and the Oxbridge teams.

How does it look like he may make it when Labour have done so poorly that is utter nonsense

He will win the leadership but the electorate have shown not to support him

'How does it look like he may make it when Labour have done so poorly that is utter nonsense '

'His first priority is to win the Labour vote against the 172 and it looks like he may make it.'

I mean that he may make it and beat the 172, the BBC, the media and the "magic circle". That is round 1. After that he has to try and beat Theresa May, but that won't e easy because she is coming up with a lot of common sense, which is not Corbyn's strongest point.

The 172. That self selected self congratulatory bunch with no connection to ordinary voters. That were elected by ordinary voters.
Maybe I meant the Corbynistas

When Claig mentions democracy you have to remember that it's the through the looking glass version.

There's quite a handy guide to this sort of thing here:

www.uvm.edu/~jleonard/AGRI183/propoaganda.html

Why don't you line your cycle helmet with tin foil and wear it 24 hours a day - that will stop the "magic circle" transmitting their gamma rays into your brain?
Must say I'm astonished to learn fresh fields and linkies behind all this - there was me thinking they were just boring corporate lawyers

This would really be revolutionary, if he does it. Instead of ordinary people just voting for policies decided by the Oxbridge teams at a general election, they could actually determine those policies. How good is that? Labour would probably get millions and millions of members if they did that.

Really? You think so? How long before members start to become disaffected? "Ordinary people" don't all want, or benefit from, the same thing - so assuming for a moment that a Labour Government with that commitment did make it to power, what next?

Various contentious policies go to the membership to vote on. It's highly unlikely that there will be a large majority one way or another. No point In spending all that money consulting on the policies that everyone agrees with. So, just like BREXIT, a large minority will be disaffected. There is social reaction - Labour branches, and Councils split in their opinions. Fear of intimidation and abuse leads to suspension on branch meetings (sound familiar?).

And talking of money, all this consultation and voting would have to come out of Labour Party Funds. The public purse couldn't pick up the tab for consultation on policy creation that only including members of the Labour Party.
How long before membership starts to dwindle and the leadership is challenged ?

'So, just like BREXIT, a large minority will be disaffected. '

Yes but that is democracy, at least they would have had a say rather than no say, just like with the Referendum which had a very high turnout as did the Scottish Referendum which was even higher. Participative democracy enthuses the people which is why the "magic circle" are against it.

'And talking of money, all this consultation and voting would have to come out of Labour Party Funds'

Yes, but Labour would have a few million members and the party's income would be able to cover those costs.

'How long before membership starts to dwindle and the leadership is challenged ?'

Membership only dwindles when members feel they are not being listened to as in the Tory Party where many tore up their membership cards during Cameron's period and where there were reports of the "magic circle" memo apparently calling Tory party members "swivel-eyed" which is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black where the "magic circle" is concerned.

Participative democracy enthuses the people

It does. And leads to acts of civil disobedience, harassment, and even criminality when the disaffected realise that "having a say" doesn't mean "getting their way"

If the populous didn't understand what they were actually voting for in the Referendum, what makes you think millions of Labour Party members would choose to become more informed about policy issues that they could vote on?

Every pressure/special interest group would put their own spin on it saying that a vote in particular way would give a proportion of the population what they wanted, and ultimately (as is likely with BREXIT), it could result in noone actually getting what they believed they were voting for.

The "magic circle" are furious with the 172 at the latest Owen Smith clanger. The "magic circle" apparently weren't sure about Owen Smith's ability to beat Corbyn, but the 172 apparently assured them that Owen Smith was the best they had got.

"Owen Smith accused of sexism after ‘pulling wife’ comments

In an interview with the Daily Mirror, where he talks about childhood in Barry, South Wales, he said his school had “1,200 boys, three girls and I pulled Liz. So I must have something going on. That must be leadership.”

SNP MSP Humza Yousaf commented on the interview saying: “If Owen Smith is the answer, what is the question?”

inews.co.uk/essentials/news/owen-smith-accused-sexism-pulling-wife-comments/

Reports are now emanating from circles close to the "magic circle" that they are prepared to throw the towel in and vote for Corbyn themselves. They have had enough of it. This has made the "magic circle" look like a laughing stock worldwide and according to reports "they can't take any more".

'If the populous didn't understand what they were actually voting for in the Referendum'

They did understand, no one believed the £350 million apart from the "magic circle". This is all spin by the Establishment's best and brightest, as well as Owen Smith, to try and get another Referendum.

claig no, really - there wasn't anything too understand - BREXIT has not yet been defined.

But yes, in terms of Owen Smith, he really is a liability.

Whatever happened to Angela Eagle......?

Yes because it will take years to work out the terms, but unfortuneately for Owen Smith, the 172 and the "magic circle", the people voted on whether to leave or remain, not on the terms and details, the dotted i's and crossed t's. That is something the people left up to the "magic circle" to sort out.

'But yes, in terms of Owen Smith, he really is a liability.'

Yes

'Whatever happened to Angela Eagle......?'

To me it looked like the coup plotters had all come to an agreement that Smith was the best they had, but they surely couldn't have foreseen that he was the gift that keeps giving.

I think the "maagic circle" are going to want some explanations and answers from the 172 and none of the 172 want to be noiminated to have to explain it to the "magic circle" because the "magic circle" are not known for their sense of humour.

the people voted on whether to leave or remain, not on the terms and details, the dotted i's and crossed t's

In the absence of terms and details, many people formed their own opinions about what BREXIT meant, and voted according to those expectations. That's what participatory politics does, it raises public expectation that their personal interpretation of the details will be honoured.

And when it isn't, participatory politics empowers the people to take action to express their displeasure at the outcome.

All the same things will happen if a government were to invite their party members to form policy. Expectations will be raised amongst the millions who will join in a belief that their individual voice will be heard.

'In the absence of terms and details, many people formed their own opinions about what BREXIT meant, and voted according to those expectations.'

The Establishment, their media mates, the BBC and the 172 never said that the Scottish people didn't understand what Yes and No for their indpendence meant. The only reason they are all saying that now over the Brexit vote is because the people beat them fair and square. Everyone in the country knows they are sore losers, including many Remainers who are disgusted at their attempts to nullify the British people's vote, but everyone knows what they are like and half-expected their best and brightest to come up with these weak arguments.

'Expectations will be raised amongst the millions who will join in a belief that their individual voice will be heard.'

But that is democracy. It is the best thing ever. It is why Cameron and Osborne are now gone, it is the people being able to stop the rot and end the madness of the political elite who are out of touch with the people.

They lost over Brexit which made them look stupid to all their bigwig mates across the world and now they are probably going to lose to Corbyn which will make them look stupid to the people. They chose Owen Smith as the best they had, so everyone, including the "magic circle", is now wondering if the 172 are capable of running a whelk stall, let alone the country.

There are reports that some of the 172 are already talking to Corbyn about the aftermath of this comic disaster. The credibility of the 172 is now shot to pieces, there are reports that the "magic circle" are so angry that they are refusing to take their calls and have told the 172 "you made your bed, now lie in it" and don't drag us into it because we are already a laughing stock among world bigwigs after Brexit and "we can't take any more".

The Establishment, their media mates, the BBC and the 172 never said that the Scottish people didn't understand what Yes and No for their indpendence meant. The only reason they are all saying that now over the Brexit vote is because the people beat them fair and square.

So, you believe that everyone who voted in the referendum knew the limitations that their vote would have, understood that no matter what the result, the terms and details would be worked out by the Government in power, and that all the promises, commitments and theories presented by the official campaigns, and pressure groups, were nothing more than speculation?

And that anyone who has said since that they believed differently have somehow been coerced to say so by the Magic Circle?

Ok, that's one step too far as a conspiracy theory, even for me.

Does the risk of widespread public disorder as a by product of participatory politics bother you? Because the way you are embracing the model, without acknowledging that risk, almost suggests you would welcome it!