Media coverage deliberately biased against Corbyn, British public believes

[claig]

The public understand the media's game.

There is no fooling the public or the Corbynistas. The usual tactics of the metropolitan elite have failed.

"Perception of unfairness extends beyond supporters of Labour leader"
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A majority of the British public believe the media is deliberately biased against Jeremy Corbyn and seeking to portray him in a negative light.
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Women in the Labour selectorate were more likely to believe the coverage was biased than men and older people in the group were also more likely to believe it had been deliberately biased "

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-poll-labour-leadership-media-bias-believe-against-him-supporters-mi5-portland-a7225031.html

'So, you believe that everyone who voted in the referendum knew the limitations that their vote would have, understood that no matter what the result, the terms and details would be worked out by the Government in power, and that all the promises, commitments and theories presented by the official campaigns, and pressure groups, were nothing more than speculation?'

The Leave team was not in power or office, their promises were worthless and everybody knew that including the Establishment's Remain campaign. Everyody knew that Cameron, Chief Remainer, was the Prime Minister and only he and the "magic circle" could make any promises that might possibly be enacted.

The people didn't vote over empty promises made by a spinning political class and their mates, they voted to Leave the EU and then expected all the servants, the bigwigs, the "magic circle" and all the rest of them to enact the people's will without whining and trying to subvert it.

'And that anyone who has said since that they believed differently have somehow been coerced to say so by the Magic Circle?'

The Magic Circle's media have been instructed to run around and find anyone who has been conned by the dire warnings of the losing political class and says Cameron was right, I regret voting Leave and to put them on the news to show the people the folly of their decision in not listening to Cameron and his mates.

'Does the risk of widespread public disorder as a by product of participatory politics bother you? '

There will never be widespread public disorder, this is Britain, we are one of the most tolerant, sensible peoples in the universe. The "magic circle" claim there may be disorder but the people are far too sensible for that.

The only widespread public disorder was probably when the Bullingdon Club met up for one of their notorious "dos" and were told by a waiter that the British people had decided to vote to Leave the EU.

Which is it?

everyone who voted in the referendum knew the limitations that their vote would have,

if everyone knew, there'd be no one to find, would there ?

find anyone who has been conned by the dire warnings of the losing political class and says Cameron was right, I regret voting Leave

There will never be widespread public disorder, this is Britain, we are one of the most tolerant, sensible peoples in the universe

Hmm, I'm old - and remember enough to believe differently.

There are families who have lost loved ones, homes and possessions who would also disagree with you.

We are tolerant? Have you watched the news recently? All the anti-Polish shit. I'm old too. This is actually the worst I've seen it because we kid ourselves that we have grown since the bad old days.

'if everyone knew, there'd be no one to find, would there ?'

Everyone knew but there are still a few people left in the country who believe Owen Smith, the 172 and Cameron and some of them have been frightened by BBC reports that they had made the wrong decision and that now there would be calamity. The "magic circle" milked this for all it was worse and the BBC went into overdrive to report on it, but everyone else has got on with business as usual (apart from the 172 of course, who never accept losing gracefully, just as they won't after Corbyn defeats them).

"Britain BOOMS after EU vote: Ignore the doom-mongers…it’s good news all round"

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/691589/Britain-BOOMS-EU-vote-economy-economic-news-Brexit

The 172, spin doctors, teenage whizzkids, the best and the brightest and Owen Smith probably all met to discuss how they could spin their way around this one. But no one is listening, everybody knows the game.

'Have you watched the news recently? All the anti-Polish shit'

I don't think it has anything to do with the 17.5 million people who voted for Brexit. There are yobs and racists and we have always had those, but you cant blame them on the British people's decision to vote to Leave the EU so as not to have their laws made in Brussels.

In not just talking about BREXIT. Once half of the millions of Labour Party members realise that they have invested in a party which doesn't do what THEY want, they will become disenfranchised,
Not through spin by The magic circle, or the 172 but because they were promised a say in the country's policies and they didn't get what they wanted.

While you may be willing to overlook the disgraceful scenes from history on the streets of the U.K., I'm not. And participatory politics is a sure fire way to empower the people to take the law into their own hands.

Everyone knew but there are still a few people left in the country who believe Owen Smith, the 172 and Cameron and some of them have been frightened by BBC reports that they had made the wrong decision and that now there would be calamity

I'm prepared to accept that there were some to whom that applies.

But it isn't consistent with what everyone was saying. Some were saying "Im scared I've made the wrong choice". There were threads on MN of that kind.

Others were, and still are saying "I'm pissed off because x, y or z hasn't happened". A points based immigration system, for instance. There are media interviews with people who say that is "what they voted for" and TM is not listening to the will of the people.

Now, even if it is a conspiracy, and the media hunted these people out on behalf of the magic circle, they would have either had to have been bribed to say something that they didn't actually believe, or they actually believe that is what they voted for.

'Some were saying "Im scared I've made the wrong choice".'

Yes because that is all they have heard from the BBC and Establishment media so they worry they did the wrong thing, just the same way that the 172 are always on the BBC saying that Corbyn is useless and therefore many people think it must be true because they don't think that the 172 could lie or fiddle their expenses.

'Others were, and still are saying "I'm pissed off because x, y or z hasn't happened". '

Farage is pissed off that Article 50 hasn't been invoked, but that is tough. It is up to Theresa May to decide the timetable but I think that unlike Owen Smith and the 172, she will respect the will of the British people.

' A points based immigration system, for instance.'

But the Leave side were not the government, they could have promised free ice cream and it would have meant nothing and all of the Establishment experts working for Remain, and possibly even Owen Smith and some of the 172, knew that and could have explained it to those people who didn't understand.

'they would have either had to have been bribed to say something that they didn't actually believe, or they actually believe that is what they voted for.'

Some people feel bullied by Establishment experts with microphones and clipboards and they don't want to look stupid so they tell the experts what the experts were fishing for. I doubt most of them feel strongly that they got it wrong and if we were to ask them now, they would probably be fine with their vote. Also there are Remain voters having seen that the majority voted Leave who also wish they had voted Leave but the BBC won't be broadcasting what they think any time soon.

even Owen Smith and some of the 172, knew that and could have explained it to those people who didn't understand

But according to you, everyone did understand, you said upthread that everyone knew that they were only voting to give the magic circle a strategic directive.

So why would the 172 need to explain?

I think everyone in the country knew that but I am countering the argument of Owen Smith and his 172 who tell us that the people were too stupid to understand what Owen Smith struggled to understand and I am saying that if that was the case why didn't Owen Smith explain it to them at the time, if he did indeed understand that the Leave side was not in power, which I am not sure he fully grasped going by some of what he comes out with at hustings etc and in "banter".

So everyone knew what they were voting for, no one feels Cheated or disillusioned and anyone who says they do are just overwhelmed by pressure put upon them by the media and people with clipboards.

Some people feel bullied by Establishment experts with microphones and clipboards and they don't want to look stupid so they tell the experts what the experts were fishing for

What about people who have expressed that independently? On forums, chats, or down the pub? People who haven't been asked by the media, or by a person with a clipboard, but who are letting off steam about their anger in a public place?

Are they plants, put there by the magic circle to try and undermine the BREXIT vote? Because I know some of them and I'd be surprised if they went along with it without a huge payoff, to be honest. Maybe they've been threatened/blackmailed?

'What about people who have expressed that independently? On forums, chats, or down the pub?'

I think that most of them have been frightened by teh unnessarily gllomy prognostications of the "experts" on the BBC etc. Some people believe the BBC and the 172. If instead the Establishment and its mates had wanted to leave the EU, then my guess is that the BBC would have been reporting what great opportunities there now were etc after we left.

'People who haven't been asked by the media'

They have been influenced by media. That is how spin works, that is why the 172 employ spin doctors etc.

'Are they plants, put there by the magic circle to try and undermine the BREXIT vote?'

I don't think they are plants but I think they have been influenced by the reports that have been planted in the media to show the people the error of their ways in defying the Establishment and its mates.

'Maybe they've been threatened/blackmailed?'

No, I think that type of thing only happens to very important Establishment insiders.

You're avoiding the question - again.

I'm not talking about the people who are frightened.
I'm talking about the people who are angry - who are saying that they feel betrayed because x,y or z hasn't happened and thats what they voted for.

You say they have been influenced by the media/magic circle - but that doesn't explain why they are saying they voted for a particular thing that you say they 'knew' wasn't true.

'I'm talking about the people who are angry - who are saying that they feel betrayed because x,y or z hasn't happened and thats what they voted for.'

Yes, some people are angry. Farage is angry. But that is tough. It is up to the government to set the agenda and negotiate as it sees fit.

'but that doesn't explain why they are saying they voted for a particular thing that you say they 'knew' wasn't true.'

I voted to Leave but didn't believe that as Owen Smith constantly weakly suggests that that means I thought that there would be an extra £350 million per week going to the NHS. I voted to leave because I wanted to leave as did most people.

Yes, some people are angry. Farage is angry. But that is tough. It is up to the government to set the agenda and negotiate as it sees fit.

But why are they angry? You say they knew that they wouldn't have a say in the detail, in the i's and t's. That everyone knew the limitation of their vote.

So why are they angry about it now?

I don't think that that many people are angry. I think most people understand the Establishment and know what they are like and that they will try to delay it and fool the people and get another Referendum etc. Most people expect that of them. No one is angry about Owen Smith and his attempts to have another Referendum; they expect that of him and the 172.

Farage and some people are angry because they are worried that the Establishment wil trick the people and find a way to stay in. But I think they are wrong. There is no way out for the Establishment; Owen Smith can't save them, he is aa joke and we beat the Establishment fair and square and therefore the country is leaving the EU however long it takes.

So you think that no one is angry about being deceived - no one voted for a particular agenda.

Lots of people are saying they are, but you think they're all lying.

I thought we were getting somewhere but it's all gone off-piste this evening.

Ah well, it's been fun!

'So you think that no one is angry about being deceived'

I think Owen Smith is angry that he lost. All this stuff about "eing deceived" is 172 spin doctor stuff that Owen spouts. Us Leavers are supposedly angry because we feel deceived that there won't be £350 million going to the NHS per week which was promised by an assortment of politicians who were not in power, couldn't promise anything and whom the entire Establishment and all its mates were against.

It's just Owen Smith "banter", it's not true.

It's just Owen Smith "banter", it's not true.

As you are not a member of a party and don't attend any branch meetings, I'm bewildered as to how you can assert so assuredly that no one feels deceived.

I am, I have, and I have heard people say they do. I've also read it on MN, heard it in the hairdressers, debated it in the local pub, seem letters to the local paper and even been at public meetings where those views have been expressed. Are all those people lying?

Unless you believe that I'm lying, too?

I enjoy a good debate. You made a lot of good points and forced me to really think about what I thought and believe. But dismissing anything that undermines your argument as lies is not debate. Shame.

'Are all those people lying? '

I think they are exaggerating because I think everybody knew that there would not be £350 million per week for the NHS (despite what Owen Smith says) and everybody knew it would take a long time before we left. What is important is that we are leaving, the rest is detail that will take a long time to work out. Most people have moved on from Brexit apart from Owen Smith.

I think they are exaggerating because I think everybody knew that there would not be £350 million per week for the NHS

You don't have a very high opinion of "the public", do you? It does somewhat undermine your position if you only believe some of the people, some of the time.

Anyway, as you are not willing to accept that some of "the public" didn't really understand the purpose of the referendum, you certainly won't accept that some of "the public" won't understand the limitations of the opportunity to vote on policy, if indeed, that is what Labour successfully implements. I think it's unlikely - although there is a part of me that really hopes that in future years, members will be able to vote for the shadow cabinet. I am confident that we'd see more women represented if that was the case.

'You don't have a very high opinion of "the public", do you?'

I do which is why I believe in referendums so that we can all have a say, unlike the political class.

'It does somewhat undermine your position if you only believe some of the people, some of the time. '

A lot of what people say is "banter", they don't really mean a lot of it. People like to moan about the government and use a Catherine Tate nan line "f**ing liberty" etc but they aren't really angry about it most of the time.

'Anyway, as you are not willing to accept that some of "the public" didn't really understand the purpose of the referendum'

Some may not have but my guess is it was very few because I don't believe the people are as stupid as Owen Smith makes out.

' you certainly won't accept that some of "the public" won't understand the limitations of the opportunity to vote on policy'

No because I thinnk the people are smarter than that and than Owen Smith. I think these arguments are used by the politicak class in order to shut people out of decision making and participating because people like Owen Smith think they know better than the people and think that the people are not capable of understanding what the referendum vote was all about.

'although there is a part of me that really hopes that in future years, members will be able to vote for the shadow cabinet. I am confident that we'd see more women represented if that was the case.'

Yes that would be good and I think it will only come about via Corbyn because he is not fixated on power and control and wants to spread power to the people. That is why he called the "magic circle" out and sent a shiver up their spine.

"Corbyn calls for Westminster 'magic circle' to be broken

The "magic circle" of Westminster needs to be broken and the views of "ordinary people" heard, Jeremy Corbyn has said in the final leadership rally before the ballot papers are sent out.
...

The crowd cheered as he said workers in factories, call centres and local authorities had "ideas" on how to change the economy, but were "frustrated that nobody is listening to them".

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The principle of democracy has to be ground up.

It is about breaking open this magical circle of Westminster, some of our great universities, Whitehall and the boardrooms who try to control thinking, control ideas and control the way policy is developed.

• Jeremy Corbyn"

This was in the Question Time debate

"An audience member says people seem to want “nationalism”. Is Labour going to go that way, or stick to its values?

Smith says he thinks people want investment - and the areas that have gone towards Ukip have been starved of investment. If there’s more investment, they’ll come back.

The audience member suggests Smith is “insulting the intelligence” of the people who voted Leave."

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/question-time-labour-hustings-recap-8796106

Smith has done nothing but insult the intelligence of 17.5 million who voted Leave by suggesting that we are too stupid to understand what the vote was about and that he can explain it to us, and he has done nothing but insult the intelligence of Labour voters with his "I blame Jeremy" over Brexit and everything else.

Smith insults just about everybody with his "banter" and then insults the entire country by suggesting he may try to stay in the EU after we had a democratic vote and he lost.