Not racist, come hither.

[Drabarni]

Now I have your attention.
If you think you aren't racist please look at this and if you feel like gettig behind this
Thank you very much.

www.travellerstimes.org.uk/news/2019/10/politicians-pledge-their-support-gypsy-roma-and-traveller-communities

www.gypsy-traveller.org/pledge-card-asking-your-mp-to-sign-up/

Obviously, you don't have to make an appointment with your MP as suggested, you could email or post.

I have no interest in putting nomadic people in settled housing or disrupting their way of life.

I do have a problem with a nomadic people expecting one of the most densely populated countries in Europe, one in the midst of a housing crisis where public spaces are very much a pressing priority for all people, to just offer parcels of land to these nomadic people.

Obviously, they want to eat their cake and have it too. They like having access to commercialised high streets, electricity, doctors, waste disposal, broadband etc. Can you not see the problem here?

So why do you think there's a problem

Family 1. Modern.

Live on a static site, go to work, pay tax Ni, water utilities, council tax
Kids go to school, access healthcare.

They are doing nothing different to gorgers.

Family 2. Traditionalists.

Live in the woods, off the land, travel quite regularly.
Are not registered for anything and don't want to be. Wary of Doctors, banks, and don't work. They aren't interested in benefits inc CB.
How are they harming the rest of society?

Family 3
Want to keep some of their culture, live in a house for 50% of the year, and are the same as family 1. But the remaining 50% of the year wish to travel and work, and it be lawful to stop on common ground, or roads edge, or indeed our heritage of the forests and woods.
How would this harm the rest of society.

I've not met one travelling family who wants it both ways, but continue to hear that our choices aren't acceptable.

Because the common ground is not there for someone to stay for weeks or months on end.

I'll give you an example. Travellers come around here a few times a year to run a carnival. This is not a viable business, it is a pretext. They stay for 3 or 4 weeks at a time at our local park, open for a handful of days.

They pay the council a nominal sum (I have a freedom of information request pending to find out the specific arrangements) and in this time, they block the majority of the park, about half of the space they take is cordoned off as their own living quarters, and when they leave the grass is completely destroyed.

So I have access to less than half of my local park for the month while they're there, I am stressed out when I'm walking my dog because I'm worried she's going to run off into the cordoned area, and then it's a muddy nightmare after they leave.

This is before we even broach the non-trivial issue of who's paying for this green space.

Am I supposed to be happy about this?

Yes you are, they are working and providing a service.
If they have a business and are paying tax, they too are paying for the park.
The council must be happy to use them for the carnival or they'd be refused.

Oh, my business provides services for carnival, amongst other things.
Is my tax not good enough for you? Is it inferior to yours?

I don’t really understand the problem with the park. It’s the same as a festival or concert being held there, no big deal and none of your business. What is your concern, that it’s harder to walk your dog? C’mon

Entropy if the travellers had official pull ups and sites (like we told them they would when travelling became illegal) it would be mitigated.
The only difference between that and a festival or fete being held is the sleeping arrangements.
Maybe ask the council what provision they have for the fair staff with the FOI request so you can be sure they have somewhere else to legally stay.

It sounds like the park is what the council have provided for the travellers, that's great, good for them.
It's a shame that so many other authorities aren't offering anything.

Until 1994 LA had to provide areas for stopping, and sites for up to 3 months stay.
When the law changed they stopped doing it.
The ethnic cleansing started in the 60's but you can see a change in the reporting of the time. During the 30's there were lots of reports of the King being coronated, Romany weddings, where thousands of gorgers had the day off school etc and they were accepted.
FF to the late 40's and they are a disgrace and a problem to authorities, including the forests.
I think the golden time for gypsies was post war, maybe because there were far fewer houses, they were happy to leave us alone. It soon returned to the discrimination and racism though.

I must go and do something as interesting and as helpful as the responses are.

Hey, if you want to trivialise my concern about not having proper access to my local park to run my dog around for 25 days, I can trivialise your concerns too.

If they have a business and are paying tax, they too are paying for the park.

What do you think the implications of parking for 25 days and being open for five are for the tax revenue?

The council must be happy to use them for the carnival or they'd be refused.

Of course they are. Why would they care? It's a park having an impoverished catchment, it has a cafe that's not in use either. People are used to it being in a state of disrepair.

Entropy

The park isn't common ground, it's owned by the council, they are in charge of what happens to it, and liable.
Common ground is owned by nobody and is for anyone to use. The council just tend it when they can be bothered.

However, some councils have taken it upon themselves to fence off common land because, they don't like travellers, simple as that.

The only difference between that and a festival or fete being held is the sleeping arrangements.
Maybe ask the council what provision they have for the fair staff with the FOI request so you can be sure they have somewhere else to legally stay.

At the risk of repeating myself (again)... it's for 25 days. This is not how concerts or fetes work.

Is it not permitted for carnival staff to sleep at the park?

Common ground is owned by nobody and is for anyone to use.

There is no such thing.

Wel, we have common ground where i live, it has barriers erected, but travellers remove them as there's no law to stop them being there.
They stay for a couple of weeks whilst visiting friends and family in the area and then move on. There's usually 3 vans.

Travellors of Roma heritage (a recognised ethnic minority across Europe; and perceived by most South Asians and Arabs as of their own people) are generally treated with more respect compared to non-Roma travellers so this is a non-issue.

Grumpy

Sorry, I don't understand that.
Romany are Roma and thought of exactly the same whether they come from Western or Eastern Europe.
Many who recently came from Eastern Europe fear they will be deported post Brexit and don't believe that answering 3 simple questions will allow them to stay.
In addition, we are seeing jobs going as factories are facing closure, meaning their jobs will be gone.
Believe me when you see the conditions they have come from, they aren't in a hurry to volunteer to go back, especially if their friends and family are here too.

What is society teaching their children?
Do we teach acceptance and tolerance. It doesn't seem to be the case.
Some work done by children here. Talking about things they shouldn't have to cope with ever, let alone at a young age.

Please stop with the suggestions we all leave a mess, or all do particular things. When a traveller was murdered by white British school kids, the travelling community didn't become racist accusing every young white school boy of being a murderer.
They wanted justice whoever had done it.

www.travellingahead.org.uk/projects/tackling-hate-crime/

Would help if I posted the link

This should tell you why racism should be stopped. Or do we just bury our heads until it all kicks off.
Then talk about what a shame it is and how something should have been done.

It might not be the best way or the only way, but showing government you find this unacceptable is the first step.
This is happening all over Europe, not just here.

www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/20/bulgaria-sofia-racism-roma-everybody-hates-us-anti-gypsy-abuse?fbclid=IwAR3kHCxB287QbsxQb59NTGNZXJwc0z8aj2gEeNkKbMHoPraE5Kg_XPxpuvk

Drabarni I would not dispute that Bulgaria has a pretty serious racism problem. In the article you posted, one of the Roma said that being in Britain was like a breath of fresh air, or something like this.

I don't understand the point of your post.

Yes, to what it's like in Bulgaria it is much better here, but for how long.
Once we are out of the EU and we lose the protection we have it would be so easy to end up the same.
Gypsies are hated throughout Europe and it doesn't take a genius to know that if it continues we could end up in a similar situation.
The atrocities in the war was after a decade of chipping away at Roma rights, social engineering and propaganda to justify murdering a quarter of a race.
That was hatred too, not dissimilar to what is happening today. Hatred for travelling people is certainly rising, we need to stop it now.

As it comes time to remember those who died in war, it seems fitting to add this.

For anyone just joining the thread there is a link to a campaign in the OP and some interesting articles throughout the thread.
I know a few keep coming back for any additions and I'll post as I find them.
www.gypsy-traveller.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FFT-The-Gypsy-Holocaust-Booklet.pdf

www.travellerstimes.org.uk/news/2019/11/crowdfunder-launched-support-legal-challenge-against-racist-anti-traveller-injunctions

Carrying on the fight, and after some really nice pm's am continuing to post items of interest.

Thank you very much to those who have pledged support, not financially but being open to listen, keeping an open mind, and interested

Keeping up the fight has never been more important, now that conservatives are in power.
If anyone would like to help see the links below.

www.travellerstimes.org.uk/news/2019/12/government-consultation-evicting-gypsy-and-traveller-camps-rolls

www.travellerstimes.org.uk/news/2019/11/ethnic-cleansing-government-policy

What you can do, how can you help?
Ask your MP to sign up to the "Travellers welcome here" pledge and to provide suitable stopping places. www.travellerstimes.org.uk/news/2019/10/politicians-pledge-their-support-gypsy-roma-and-traveller-communities

It costs more to clean up after a dirty demonstration than it would to provide the site in the first place.