Not racist, come hither.

[Drabarni]

Now I have your attention.
If you think you aren't racist please look at this and if you feel like gettig behind this
Thank you very much.

www.travellerstimes.org.uk/news/2019/10/politicians-pledge-their-support-gypsy-roma-and-traveller-communities

www.gypsy-traveller.org/pledge-card-asking-your-mp-to-sign-up/

Obviously, you don't have to make an appointment with your MP as suggested, you could email or post.

Ie

“My understanding was that Romanies were completely different to the Irish travellers that lots of people talk about re. causing trouble and stealing. Limping lots of people together because they are travelling people is unhelpful.”

Typical example as to why it’s ok to be racist to Irish travellers

@Passthecherrycoke are you a traveller? How much understanding do you have about what you're talking about? I only ask because although I haven't said what you wrote, there is a level of truth in the fact that Irish travellers behave differently to English ones.

Yes and as I’ve stated there are reasons for that- being marginalised and excluded from society.

However if you’re saying that you know all Irish travellers are criminal aggressive violent shit in the rugby clubbers because you’re a traveller and have special knowledge of their transgressions then you’re just being racist as well

@Passthecherrycoke do you mean yes you are an Irish traveller? And that's certainly not what I've said. I always preach that there are good and bad in all races and I truly believe it.

I’m not an Irish traveller no. But there is no point in a thread about racism about travellers if we’re actually saying it’s ok to be racist about some travelling communities, as long as it’s not your one

Ah I see. Well all I will say is that unless you've had the behaviour of a particular group, painted on yours for as long as you can remember, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Ah. So you are racist.

No I am most certainly not. Saying that most of the behaviours that people negatively associate to travellers, is from the Irish community is not racist, it's true. Of course, English travellers can be guilty of things too, but there are so many differences that you clearly don't understand.

I don’t know why you keep saying I don’t understand the difference between Irish and Romany travellers. That’s not the debate at all, I’m well aware they are different groups and don’t care whether you can get your head round that or not.

The point is you can’t tell people not to be racist against Romany whilst making racist generalisations about Irish travellers

I don’t think it’s racist to say Roma and irish travellers are different races.

It is. Humans don't have races. By definition if you believe in race theory you are a racist.

I have no Russian DNA is it racist to say so?

No such thing as russian DNA. Ethnic groups like being Slavic are based on language and culture, not DNA.

Much of this discussion is predicated on racism, not because it is intentionally mean to other 'races' but because it presumes race to be real.

Many people seem to have bought what the racists are selling.

Hello, personally I don't think I'm better or too much different than irish travellers. Yes, for the sake of equality and help to protect against marginalisation, the two are considered the same.
Irish travellers are usually Catholic, whereas Romany are protestant.
Most Irish travellers don't have Romany DNA from SE Asia.

Hi Drabarni.

This has been a very interesting read. My assumption re the travellers that have come along and parked in my office car park / our football pitches / the local play park is that the caravans are their homes.

I've always thought that they have made a lifestyle choice to take from society or cost society without expecting to pay anything in.

When a group parked on my work car park, that meant that employees had to find other places to park. Finding parking and then getting to and from work added an extra half hour on the start and end of the day so cost my employer about an hour per day per employee, which is a lot of money. Not to mention cleaning up all the rubbish left behind.

I've assumed that for most, with no fixed address for correspondence, that they don't pay road tax or insurance nor council tax and that by working mainly cash in hand (how do you hold down a regular job if you're always on the move?) then there is no income tax or national insurance paid either.

From what you've said then all of them will actually have houses somewhere and pay council tax there, be registered for road tax and insurance and pay income tax and national insurance on the cash in hand jobs that they do. That is a revelation.

@donquixotedelamancha you can't just say that humans do t have races when they do. There are black people, Asian people, gypsies and millions of other races. I'm offended by you saying my race doesn't exist.

@whiteroseredrose people can't just avoid paying tax, that's a common misconception. And I think we pay into society in many ways, maybe just not the ways you do.

Looks like this is a timely discussion

www.ladbible.com/news/news-travellers-could-be-arrested-and-have-caravans-seized-under-new-laws-20191103

Not sure if the link will work but it sounds like the trespassing will change from being a civil to a criminal matter.

It should be a criminal matter I cant just go and live where I like and have no consequences there has to be a line drawn and things in my area have got out of control breaking down barriers literally then camping out leaving a mess and moving on we have places where they can go they would rather camp out in tescos car park who locked down there lockable shelving after a rise in thefts closed the phone shop and had to pull in extra security it's not racist to say they shouldn't be doing this because they shouldn't be doing it

But if you have a nomadic culture in your society, and you make it illegal for them to practise their culture (ie to move around and live off the land) then how is that law not racist? You’re stopping a part of society practising their culture. Legislating against them.

There are no easy answers- but fundamentally, if you’re legislating against peoples culture you can see why they sometimes behave badly in response

I think in 50 years people will look back at the way our society treated travellers in the way we look back at slavery. They’ll be disgusted with us

donquixotedelamancha you can't just say that humans do t have races when they do.

It's not me saying that. It's been the scientific consensus for 60-70 years. A race is a sub-group of a species which is genetically similar to each other and distinct from other groups, but not enough to be another species. Dogs have races, cabbages have races, but humans don't.

The physical differences that racists think indicate race are a tiny proportion of our DNA and often found in very geographically diverse groups.

Unfortunately racism (the belief in race) is very real. I am not trying to say you shouldn't label the prejudice you face as racism- you have the right to your own words. I am not saying that there can't be social issues which are more common in particular groups.

I am saying we should try to avoid the language that racists use and not accidentally buy into their nonsense about genetic predisposition. I am saying that people are just people and that the sweeping generalisations racists peddle are nonsense.

I'm offended by you saying my race doesn't exist.

I'm not saying Romany travellers don't exist. I am saying they are a culturally distinct group, not a race.

Whiterose

It's scary, what are we supposed to do , become invisible.
With Councils closing sites forcing people on the road who won't be able to stop anywhere lawfully.
How you can do this to people who have lived here for centuries is beyond me.
I'm going to become quite an activist I think, as I can't sit back and accept ethnic cleansing.

Slippery

It's racist to say "they" shouldn't be doing this, if you are referring to a specific race. If you mean people in general shouldn't do this then that's acceptable.
What the councils are doing is illegal and there are legal bods looking at it now, iirc it's against no8 of Human rights bill.
Nobody can stop you from parking up on common ground.
Councils don't own it, they simply manage it.
I'll see if i can find a link in my ever increasing files.

Slippery, how would you feel if all of a sudden it was deemed unlawful to live in houses and you had to travel, not allowed to stay in one place for more than 24 hours.
What would you do about registering for a gp, schools, etc.
You'd want to be settled, right?

So, why should an entire race have their rights taken away from them, rights that are part of their culture and way of life?
It's ironic, within the past 60 years we have seen travellers forced off the road into houses and sites and now they are taking the sites away and forcing back on the road.
With the addition of it now being unlawful to stop anywhere.

@Passthecherrycoke you are very right. Very locally to me, an application was recently put in to make a site with static caravans, space for about 10 families. Within a day it received over 700 objections. That's 700 people who refused to allow travellers to have a place to live.

People who complain about travellers taking up residency in places they shouldn't, can't also object to them trying to find a fixed residence. We exist and we have to live somewhere, you can't just object to everything.

Travelling wouldn't bother me it's what I love to do I do not see however why you seem to think private land is common land? Tescos carpark is not common land the carpark at the back of the office is not common land places with barriers locks and gates are a bit of a giveaway when it comes to places to stay

Because the common land has gone

slippery

Do you have children, would you home educate? They couldn't attend school as you wouldn't be able to enrol them with no address.
What about Health care and work?

I don't think private land is common land, why would I?
The common land is being eroded but some does still exist.
We have a place in our time where a family stay for the summer, just about a mile away from a retail park, close to the river with grass for their horses.

I'm sure travelling would bother you if your right to bricks and mortar were denied.