When you love your friends but not their kids.

[stirringbeast]

I have 2 very good friends whom I see a lot. They are both wonderful kind and generous ladies.

However I'm finding it harder and harder to spend time with them. It's their kids. Neither of them has much control at all - their children come and trash my house, scoff all the biscuits leaving none for mine, whine for more and more treats when we're out which they eventually give in to, making me look mean for not doing the same, speak rudely to their mothers which my kids are now starting to copy etc etc.

I find I am constantly biting my lip when we're together. The closest I have come to saying anything is telling the children on several occasions that certain behaviours are not acceptable in my house. I got some uncomfortable looks from the mothers on these occasions.

Obviously my children are not angels and certainly have their moments but I believe that the parent should be firmly in charge.

I don't like things to fester away leaving bad atmospheres but I'm not sure I should say anything to my friends about how hard I'm finding it. I think they will get defensive and it will ruin the friendship.

Has anyone experienced this? What did you do?

don;t meet at your house

go to a park or somewhere neutral (or their houses if you don't want yours to get trashed)

conversations about other peoples' parenting styles rarely go well

I think if you want to remain friends with these people you need to see them without their children.

IME it is very difficult to be friends with people who parent very differently from you. All ofthe people I am close friends with have very similar parenting styles to me.

That's what I'm worried about. Obviously they won't agree with me. They have a different philosophy I suppose. But I just think their kids are brats!

I've been avoiding having them at my house, but can't always, have to take a turn.

I have a similar problem with one of my very close friends. Her ds (3.3) is allowed to rule the roost at home as she says he is 'very bright and easily bored' .
I love my friend but I dread her bringing her dc's (we meet at mine as her house is v small). I try to think that in the long term she'll have more problems to deal with and I just keep saying to my dd's that 'I don't care what x does, I don't want you to do it'.

How old are these children? Children vary a lot and it is very difficult to sit in judgement regarding the behaviour of someone else's child. You would find me in the camp of "giving in" to "whining" in public to prevent my 3yo from making a massive scene. My 3yo is high maintenance but my nearly 2yo is a breeze - she always does as she's told and she is polite etc. People always comment on how well behaved and lovely my nearly 2yo is and often I can see them wishing to comment that my 3yo is a terror. I've brought them up the same way and they have turned out so differently.

I would not tell off someone else's child, ever.

Biscuits - get more!

I also have a policy of 'my house, my rules' so I ask my friend's dc's to say please and thank you and I don't let them near any biscuits etc without my say so.

It is hard though, as PurpleEglu says, maybe see her alone and accept that you will never agree on this. I find it so much less stressful being parents who have a similar approach to me.

being around parents

Why should I get more biscuits? If my rule is "have 1 biscuit, maybe 1 more later" then that's the rule for everyone in my house.

And if my friend's son is busy taking all my CD's out of their cases and leaving them all over the floor to get scratched while my friend sits back and lets him, I'm going to say something. No question.

That's up to you if you want to give in, I don't. And my children are not easy-going, they do try it on with me. But somewhere around 4-5 years old they realised that the whining just didn't work. but if you give in to a 3 year old to avoid a scene they will still be using the whining age 4-5.

I tell my children in front of the others not to talk to me rudely etc. I think my friends' dcs think I'm a wicked witch.

The biscuits were on the table, for all to eat, but I like to make home-made ones and would make e.g. 2 each. I tell them all it's 2 each but my friends' dcs just grab them all, sometimes before I can stop them. Why should I make more just so they can be greedy? At least it means they like my biscuits.

My advice would be - Don't confront it but manage it.

Some friends and I had a similar situation - really nice Woman with 2 DC. However they would trash the house and hit other DC and she would not even get off the sofa to talk to them.

The rest of us were getting fed up but rather than cut out a friend or upset her by telling her the truth we now go to group activities outside of our homes about once a week. (The local community centre might have a room that is cheap to hire for a few hours) If everyone takes it in turns to bring an activity - crafts or a game etc then the DC can do that and charge about.

Occasionally we go to soft play, story time at the library etc.

Sometimes others will meet at their homes for a coffee - but without the terrible 2!
Ours are pre schoolers and tbh even a quite large house feels cramped with 6+ Toddlers, a few babies and all the Mums!

Don't put the biscuits in reach, hand them out one at a time. I have a couple of friends who I no longer invite to my home and we just meet elsewhere. Although one has been a bit frosty since she once came over with her 9 year old dd who was truelly horrible to my DS who was 3 at the time and DH just scooped him up and said "I'm taking him out - he's not being bullied in his own home" That was a bit of a converstaion stopper!

Should have said, kids range from 2 to 8. Between us we have 9. All have big enough houses and gardens so should be no issue really. Sometimes we meet at lunchtime after nursery with just the little ones which is marginally better. The oldest boy has a terrible attitude and constantly complains about everything and swears at his mum.

It's a good idea to meet out of the house as much as possible. Just seems a shame to HAVE to.

Yes ConnorTraceptive, it's interesting when you introduce the DH's into the mix isn't it?!

Yes the men are much less forgiving - 2 of the DHs have actually Banned my friend from their homes on threat of divorce

Start organising Mums' nights out and be less available for play dates if you can.

I had a couple of friends like this. It was embarrassing to go out anywhere with them, as their DC would be allowed to run amock and disturb other diners in restaurants etc. They had no control whatsoever over them, mainly because the DC learnt that the parent absolutely didn't intend to carry out any threat of 'going home' or whatever else.

The kids regularly wrecked their parents houses, emptied toothpaste all over the carpets etc and my friend's seemd to think this was normal behaviour. In the end, the behaviour ran over into my house and my children's bedroom carpet was ruined by my friends DC.

I tried seeing them without their children, but it just wasn't really possible. I am still friends with them I suppose, but don't really see them anymore.

LOL callmeovercautious - once they were at our house and I just heard DH shout "NO! STOP DOING THAT! THAT'S DISGUSTING!" I don't suppose anyone's ever spoken to them like that before, but my DH is all instinct...

Midori that sounds familiar. They seem to think having children means everything in your house gets wrecked.

stirringbeast - OK I will revise my answer in light of what you subsequently said:

Could you try picking your battles with your friends' children?

What you said about the CDs is utterly disgraceful, I did not realise that you meant that sort of destruction and I would not tolerate that at all. I would say that CDs are fragile and they must stay in their cases so that they are safe. Having said that to the child, I'd expect the parent of that child to enforce it. Both mine understand and obey stuff of this nature even though my 3yo has ASD and is quite a challenge to look after.

I would still make more biscuits though. If those children are used to eating 5 biscuits at a time, then giving them one is perhaps worse than not giving them any at all (in terms of the behaviour it causes).

Normally mine get 2 biscuits. My ds would eat as many as he could get his hands on, but I don't let him. It's not about the biscuits though, it's about whether the children or the parent runs the show.

Obviously not that simple if child has ASD though.

I am always wary of telling another person's child off in any situation I usually ask the parent to stop them doing xxx however I have never had to do this to a close friend. Some things I could overlook whilst I may disagree with the other parent but actual destruction of other peoples' things or bullying of other children from children old enough to understand what they are doing I would have to address, even if the parents were offended. I think my relationship with the friends would deteriorate eventually otherwise.

Radstar that's sort of what's happening here, in that I don't want to spend time with them as much.

I've never tried asking one of the mums to stop the child doing something. Maybe that's something I could try. Not sure what would happen though.

I'm clear about the rules in my house, but when we're out there's not much I can do I suppose. I find that they always give their kids more and more, whatever they whine for, whereas I'll tend to agree beforehand what's going to happen. Obviously sometimes it's nice to be spontaneous but if I decided to get them ice-cream or whatever, I would say yes to it right away and not because they've been whining for it. I want my kids to have limits - all 3 of us can afford to give our kids treats etc but I still don't think they should have everything just because we can afford it. I wonder if my friends would be stricter if they had less money?

If you were to say to one of the parents "can you stop x doing that please" it may give you an indicator of how to continue this relationship.

If they were to say "oh it doesn't matter/ they aren't doing any harm" etc Then you know that you completely disagree in parenting styles and that you should let the relationship cool slightly before you become resentful.

If they seem genuinely suprised about your concern but discipline their child appropriately then perhaps you will feel better about having the parents and the children around your house. Perhaps the parents don't realise how much the behaviour bothers you and that as you haven't said anything you don't mind what they do.

As for giving in to treats while out, I have to say I agree with you in principle but as my ds isn't old enough to do the whining thing I don't know how I will react in the future! I'd like to think I will be like you, I don't want ds being a spoilt brat who thinks he can get what he wants by going on about it!

My nearest experience of this is with my sil son. I let a lot slide even though I don't agree with it, including what I think are excessive sweets when not eating dinner etc her child, her rules and all that. I will not tolerate him being destructive, especially with things that aren't his and if he ever started picking on ds then god help him

Thanks Radstar, good points.

Well one of the families appeared after school today at our house, not planned but we weren't doing anything so they came in and played. I had just just made a bowl of popcorn for my lot for a snack after school. I have just spent 15 minutes sweeping up popcorn from under chairs, the tv etc. Maybe not that much of a big deal, but when my dcs eat popcorn it doesn't end up all over the room. Literally everywhere, like they shook the bowl or something.

The mum brought a packet of chocolate biscuits and gave it to me. I put out one each - they were big ones in wrappers. Her ds the spent the whole time crying and whining for another one, which she gave him. He wanted a third one, there weren't enough for everyone to have another so i said "I'll move them shall I then he might leave it" and put them away. Lots of crying and screaming and my friend promising her ds they would go to the shop and get more chocolate biscuits tomorrow etc. Basically we hardly exchanged 2 words between us due to her ds - he's not a baby he's 4.

Maybe I'm a really mean mummy or something but it has never occurred to me to feel I have to appease my dcs after denying them something when they've already had lots of nice treats and that they might hate me for it.