When you love your friends but not their kids.

[stirringbeast]

I have 2 very good friends whom I see a lot. They are both wonderful kind and generous ladies.

However I'm finding it harder and harder to spend time with them. It's their kids. Neither of them has much control at all - their children come and trash my house, scoff all the biscuits leaving none for mine, whine for more and more treats when we're out which they eventually give in to, making me look mean for not doing the same, speak rudely to their mothers which my kids are now starting to copy etc etc.

I find I am constantly biting my lip when we're together. The closest I have come to saying anything is telling the children on several occasions that certain behaviours are not acceptable in my house. I got some uncomfortable looks from the mothers on these occasions.

Obviously my children are not angels and certainly have their moments but I believe that the parent should be firmly in charge.

I don't like things to fester away leaving bad atmospheres but I'm not sure I should say anything to my friends about how hard I'm finding it. I think they will get defensive and it will ruin the friendship.

Has anyone experienced this? What did you do?

Other people's kids can be a pain, but I do tend to be a lot more forgiving if I have known the child since birth and they are the offspring of good friend/s.

I think you either need to accept them more and accept that your house may get a bit trashed ( its mess - just clear it up )or as suggested go to the park/out , or if they are really winding you up, then just go out in the evening solo sans enfants.

It is harder when others parent differently to you but by no means insurmountable.

OK, the mess is not a big deal. But this morning I've discovered several teaspoons bent beyond repair. Unless my dcs have taken leave of their senses and forgotten what happens when Mummy is not happy, then I can gues who the culprit was....

I am not really getting this. At all. A couple of bent teaspoons?

Never mind your DC's, I am quite scared

Lots of bent teaspoons. Bent and twisted beyond further use. They weren't eating with them, they went into the cutlery drawer and took them.

Would you not mind if your dcs did that on purpose?

They should have respect for property, especially someone else's property.

You can't really comment on people's parenting. They won't take it well.

I have written off friends because of their kids - I am just not up for it. With one we have picked up again since the DCs started school, but I still won't accept any invites from her that involve the children. It just isn't worth the grief.

Why is it such a big deal that she gives her ds more biscuits? You were not going to give your dc any more so why shouldn't she? Popcorn - hoover it up. Teaspoons - it's hardly trashing the house beyong repair. I don't think I would bring my dc round to your house in case they touched something.

You are beginning to sound petty IMHO.

re the teaspoons

perhaps they have special skills

I'm thinking the Matrix/Uri Geller

They sound like little horrors to me, MelonCauli

Stirringbeast, I am with you. I had a very good friend who let her children do basically whatever they liked, whenever they liked. I tried meeting up on neutral ground, preparing mine in advance ("At lunchtime, her DCs will throw food at one another, refuse to eat anything but biscuits, and run around the cafe: you will not do any of those things" kind of thing). But it just didn't work. I thought she was hopelessly out of control and laissez-faire; she evidently thought I was an over-controlling witch. We stopped seeing each other as neither of us is ever entirely without DCs at the moment, and I think we both felt that it couldn't work when we had such different approaches. It's a shame, though, as she and I had so many other things in common and got on really, really well in all other ways. But the price just isn't worth paying.

I agree they don't sound the best behaved kids in the world but if you want to have a friendship with their mother then you don't have alot of choice but to lighten up a little.

Either that or only see them in the evening and do adults only.

I'm not surprised at the different opinions which obviously reflect the underlying parenting styles on MN.

I am quite strict. But not unreasonably so, I don't think.

OK spoons are by no means a big deal but it's the principle that you have to respect property.

I would go crazy at my dcs for doing that in someone else's house.

I don't think you're harsh or strict. I believe children need boundaries especially when 2 to 4, otherwise how do they learn what is or isn't acceptable?

Stirring beast, like you I have a good friend who I dearly love but her children are becoming more and more unruly. She gives in to every request and most of the time is oblivious to their rampant destruction of other's property. My carpet is full of stains from them and their mishaps, none from my own DC.

I have to meet them out of houses now otherwise I'll go mad.
I'm not controlling, I'm a pretty laidback person but my kids benefit from rules and no meaning no. I feel sad for my friend though.

stiringbeast I had same problem but with younger children.
My DS was 18 months and my friends 2.7 yrs. Her DS was a terror. Constantly hitting and pushing my DS who was a baby at the time. She pretended it wasnt happening basically.
He lived on crap - chocolate and treats all day and C-beebies ALL DAY and she just threw chocolate at him to keep him quiet - which is a joke, he was anything but.

I put up with it for 6 months (I know, wimp) then had it out with her and we fell out.

I did try very hard not to hurt her feelings and was very polite in what I said but, lets face it, it's possibly one of the touchiest subjects ever. She retaliated with a torent of abuse which was excuse enough to get her out my life.

Im glad I dont have to put up with her DS anymore as my son was becoming scarred of all children when he was really a confident LO before. He is very confident now too.

I wouldn't like my hard work in bringing up my DC's undone by some lazy arsed mothers!! It's the basics really, isnt it. Manners and not destroying peoples possessions and if they cant do that, is it worth having the stress of them around you?

The problem with the can't be arsed parenting is it's the unruly children who'll suffer in the end,a few posters have said they've cut contact on here, they won't be invited to parties or whatever. Not through any fault of their own.

I'd seriously chill out about all of this. Either see them less or accept that everyone is different.

I have tried to chill out.

But these issues go very deep. The fundamental differences in upbringing are really starting to show in the dcs. Obviously you can't say how much is down to basic personality of dcs.

My friends are both wonderful people. But I've heard lots of negative comments from others about the dcs of one of them, which is such a shame as she's a lovely person. She was complaining to me recently that her ds was the only boy in his class not invited to a party recently. I didn't say anything, but maybe I should?

agree with junglist1 - its really the parent you have issue with here not the child. I find it very upsetting when other parents criticise such young children. Some children are the way they are and are less malleable and controllable. For the parents of these children it is much harder work and some may struggle. Similarly adults are the way they are to a certain degree and to some providing boundaries and discipline comes more easily than to others. If your natural parenting style fits with the inherent characteristics of your child, you have a much easier ride.

If they truly are very good friends then your support and understanding would be appreciated and you should be able to find a way to work it out between you.

There is no spoon.

I knew one friend and her son had to go when my DS burst into tears when I said they were coming for lunch. My DS is extremely outgoing and tough and I knew he wasn't too keen on the kid but I hadn't realised just how bad it was (I had assumed the extra noise was just extra bouncing, but they did always leave with tears when I thought about it).

I called her that day and cancelled lunch and haven't really seen her since (at the park and stuff but DS is able to avoid her child there and can handle it).

No chance he is having to put up with shit from other kids in his own home because of my social wants.

I never blame the kids, its the parents I want to avoid!

I felt sorry for my friends DS. He was only 2.7 himself but didn't know how to behave. I think he was insecure and felt my year younger DS was a threat.

I know what the OP means. It is a big deal when you see your DC either suffer or behave really badly. We all want certain things for our DC's, confidence, well behaved and liked by others. When you watch that being destroyed because of anothers parenting it does run deep.

I think your own DC's are more important than friends and if it is having a bad effect on your DC's then bring it up and take what comes. You'll either find they are reseptive to what your telling them and try harder to respect rules in your house - very very unlikley or you loose a couple of friends. You have to decide whats more important though.

I was lucky, the girl in question I fell out with was getting on my tits anyway !

My SIL and I do not have a great relationship because of exactly these kind of issues. Basically her and BIL's children are badly behaved and rude.

It started the first time I met them and the eldest, then 8 pointed across the dinner table and said to me (in a demanding, ordering tone) : "You, get me that..." I said: "What do you say?" The girl just glared at me and her mum watched the exchange but didn't step in to encourage her to say please. So I said: "I'm not getting you it unless you say please." And I went back to my conversation.

I think that if I am expected to be around other people's children then I have the right to be spoken to nicely and our home and property should be respected.

So, OP I think you should either tell them to respect the rules of your house or they do not get invited back. Popcorn all over my house would not be acceptable either. Children need to learn about boundaries, they will never be well liked in life if not.

I'm with you stirring beast. I've a couple of friends whose children are a bit of a challenge but nothing as bad as what you're describing. To be honest, I just tell them to stop climbing on the furniture / be careful with the toys etc and if their parents don't like it and don't respect my wishes in my house, then I'm not sure they're people I really want to invite into my home.

I'm not over fussy about the house and I'm happy for the children to make mess and crumbs etc, but won't tolerate deliberate destruction. I don't want my DD copying the behaviour either, so I just say to the parents that my DD isn't allowed to do that so I'd prefer it if their didn't.

I haven't lost any friends by being honest in this way.

Good luck!

reddaisy - am giving your SIL benefit of the doubt here. Sometimes it is good for someone else to reprimand your own DC ... let's them know that it isn't just the parent nagging at them ... that their behaviour really isn't acceptable. I tell my DCs that I pull them up for being rude/cheeky because if I don't, someone else will. Sometimes, they get over-excited when with my brother and SIL for example and might overstep the mark (nothing major but maybe not saying please or something). They will pull them up for it just as I would. Strengthens the argument I think.

So I don't think we should sit there silently waiting for the parents to tell them off. If a child is in your house and they start throwing popcorn around the place then you step in, say you don't want popcorn all over the floor and give them the brush to sweep it all up. If they kick off and start whinging, then you need to say to the mother (in light hearted fashion if need be) to step in, give you some support and not to let you be the evil one.

And unless you were there watching them, you can't be 100% sure it was just the other children and yours sat there like angels. IME, my 2 could sit quietly and share a bowl of popcorn like you would expect. Through in a few new kids, and it all goes crazy.

throw in a few more kids ... should've previewed.

No I can't be sure mine weren't involved, but they wouldn't normally make a big mess on purpose. They know they would be in big trouble.

Have seen one of my friends again, she invited us for tea after school. I was more relaxed I suppose as not my territory. I just stuck to the usual rules for behaviour, e.g. made mine stay at the table and thank my friend for the food etc. My friend's dcs were wandering around and putting their feet on the table but I tried to ignore the looks from my dcs and stuck to what I expect from them. One of the kids shouted "ketchup!" and I bit my lip frantically as the ketchup was produced and offered to him. I was almost expecting one of my dcs to comment on how rude that was! Then another demanded coke, mum said no but he helped himself from the fridge. My dd immediately asked for coke, I said no you an have apple juice - luckily she accepted that but it could have been tricky if he was getting it and I didn't let her. We hardly ever have coke in the house so it's not an issue at ours, although the same boy asked me "Where's the coke?" when I offered him apple or orange juice last time.

I'm not going to stop seeing this friend. But still not sure I should say something either. I will stick to my rules with my dcs when out and the same rules for everyone at my house, and see how that goes....

You stick to your guns stirring. I'm totally with you. How can destroying your spoons be considered something to chill out about! what's the difference between trashing your spoons and trashing a bus stop in a few years' time?