My 3 year olds language and behaviour is really concerning

[adviceneededs]

i’m honestly exhausted and don’t really know what i’m expecting people to say. ds is 3 and 8 months and he left his old nursery in July to start school nursery in September and since then everything seems to be getting worse. He’s hitting, pushing, scratching, throwing things, running away when he’s told no, taking his nappy off and coming out with things that make me just stare at him because i have no idea where he’s got them from. I’m dealing with it all day and by the evening i’m just completely done.

Before July he was difficult but difficult in a normal 3 year old way. He had tantrums, shouted, didn’t like sharing and could push if he was cross but he was also affectionate and funny and could play nicely. This has really only been like this since July so i don’t think it’s SEN because surely if it was something like that he would have always been like this? It feels like something has changed rather than this being how he’s always been. His old nursery never raised anything like this with me and he was there until July, so i keep thinking something must have changed.

He’s still in nappies. I tried potty training in August and it was a complete failure so i stopped because i couldn’t cope with another battle. Since July he’s started taking his nappy off constantly. He’ll pull it off and throw it across his bedroom, wee on the floor and then laugh when i ask him why he’s done it. He sometimes takes all his clothes off as well and runs around naked refusing to get dressed. At school nursery he’s pulled his trousers and nappy down during free play and apparently tried to get another child to take theirs off too. He thinks it’s hilarious when i tell him to stop and doesn’t seem embarrassed at all.

The things he says are getting worse too. He says “i’m gonna kill you”, “i hate you”, “you’re dead”, “shut up you stupid bitch”, “fuck off you idiot” and “you fucking bastard”. He’ll say “you’re a fucking dickhead” if i take something away and “what the fuck are you doing” if i tell him to stop something. He doesn’t even say them properly sometimes, it’s more like he’s repeating phrases he’s heard without knowing what half of them mean. I don’t use this language at all, let alone around him. I don’t swear at him or talk about adult things around him so i genuinely don’t know where he’s getting it from.

Sometimes he’ll just repeat a phrase over and over even though he clearly doesn’t understand it. I’ve asked him what “i’m gonna kill you” means and he just says “kill you” back and laughs. He has apparently said to a nursery child “fuck off you little shit” because they wouldn’t give him a toy. Another time he told a member of staff “i’m going to fucking smash your face in”. I honestly don’t know where a 3 year old even learns to put words together like that. If i ask him where he heard something he either says “nursery” or starts laughing and changes the subject.

His behaviour generally is awful at the moment. He’ll throw his food on the floor, tip drinks over deliberately, spit, scream, kick doors, throw toys at the wall and hit me when i try to stop him. He has started biting himself when he’s angry and banging his head against the sofa. If i tell him no he’ll sometimes run into another room and start pulling things off shelves. He can be playing perfectly happily and then suddenly hit dd because she touched something he wanted. He doesn’t seem to think about what he’s doing at all until afterwards and sometimes he just laughs when i’ve told him someone is hurt. He’ll also deliberately do things i’ve just told him not to do and then watch my face to see what i do.

dd is 1 and 2 months and i’m finding that the hardest part. He can be lovely with her and then suddenly push her over, grab her arm, pull toys away from her or shout right in her face. Once he pushed her backwards and she hit her head on the floor and another time he put a cushion over her while she was lying down. I pulled it away straight away and she was fine but it scared me. He has also thrown toys at her, kicked her toys into her and once squeezed her face when she was crying. I don’t think he was trying to seriously hurt her but i can’t take the risk so i don’t leave them alone together anymore. I’m constantly watching him when he’s near her and it’s exhausting.

Nursery are seeing the same sort of thing. He’s hitting and pushing other children, scratching, grabbing toys, throwing toys at people and running away from staff. He’s apparently knocked a child over deliberately and scratched another child. He refuses to sit down when asked, shouts over adults, climbs on furniture, empties boxes of toys onto the floor and sometimes just runs around the room screaming. They’ve told me he’s had to be taken away from other children because he was trying to hit them. He’s also apparently told another child “i’m going to fucking kill you” which obviously made me feel even worse. They’ve now asked me to come in and talk about it because they’re concerned about how much it’s happening.

I honestly don’t know what to do anymore. I feel like i’m saying “don’t hit”, “don’t throw”, “get dressed”, “leave her alone”, “use nice words”, “don’t take your nappy off” about a hundred times a day and none of it is sinking in. I’m not saying he’s a horrible child because he isn’t. He’s my little boy and i love him, but i’m finding his behaviour really difficult to cope with now and i’m worried about what happens if he carries on like this at nursery.

I haven’t spoken to the GP yet because i don’t even know what i’d say without sounding ridiculous. I keep thinking maybe i’m making a big thing out of normal toddler behaviour but then nursery tell me he’s hurt another child and i think no, this isn’t normal for him. It’s only really been this way since July, when he left his old nursery, and that’s why i don’t think it’s something he’s always had. I just don’t know what i’m supposed to do with him.

Nursery want to meet me tomorrow and i’m dreading it because i don’t know what they’re going to say or what i’m supposed to ask them for. Do i ask for an urgent referral somewhere? I don’t even know where i’d be referred to or whether they’d just laugh at me because he’s three. Do i ask the GP, nursery SENCO or someone else? I don’t want him being labelled as the naughty child when he’s only just started but i also can’t keep pretending everything is fine when he’s hurting dd, hurting other children and saying things like “i’m gonna fucking kill you” all day. Has anyone had a child suddenly change like this around 3/4? I’m so tired and honestly don’t know what to do next and I’m worried they’ll refer to social services if this carries on because it is concerning

And this definitely isn’t ’normal’ behaviour so definitely seek some help. Nursery can support you with the HV - the HV can pay a visit to see him in different settings and get the ball rolling if it needs to.

Firstly OP good luck this morning go in with an open mind and be honest and accept any help they offer. However, don't be backed into a corner either.

Now what I'm going to say next might not be what you want to hear but a lot of what you have posted indicates your struggling to cope with the children in general (without this behaviour), do you have any support network around you? Your DS is clearly showing behaviour that is asking for a reaction and clearly attention seeking. Do you have any 1 on 1 time with DS? I think this is starting point for you if not, dedicate sometime just for him not including DD. Your post screams that you will do things for an easy life, I get it we have all been there and guilty of it at times (I won't lie I often pick my battles with my kids but their 15,11 & 8 so the base is in for them now) at 3 you need to be consistent and set firm boundaries his behaviour sounds awful to me and very concerning tbh. I have 2 wild boys so I know how full on they can be but you must be consistent with the boundaries.

The words and phrases he is using are terrible and not normal for a child of that age and he is very clearly being exposed to it somewhere. Does he play out with other children at home? Older children maybe? I don't believe he has heard this at nursery as I expect he has only been there a short time. What did you do for childcare during the summer holidays? Your son is and or has been exposed to this and you need to think hard about where he has been and who he has been around.

Potty training needs to be done ASAP your son is telling you he is ready this is you stopping it so snap out of it and get it sorted.

Someone advised you to refer yourselves to early help....i'd do this OP. His behaviour sounds extreme and you recognise that you have a duty of care to both him and his sister. Early help will be able to assist you to unravel what's going on and provide coping strategies.

Can you take someone with you to the meeting OP? You really need someone to take notes.

And if you genuinely can't see how he's picked up the language outside nursery, then it must be from nursery. You said he was ok at the old one, so clearly that's the change - it seems pretty obvious to me. That would be a point I would make very firmly. He was ok at the old nursery, he isn't ok at this one. So what's going on.

As an aside I would cut down the screen time and not let him watch anything other than Cbeebies unaccompanied (eg if you are making dinner in the kitchen he's allowed to watch that on the TV in the lounge, no iPad in his bedroom where you can't see). Just in case he's seeing something really dodgy you don't know about.

At this stage it’s all about communication. Given he is watching you sometimes for a reaction and some form of communication, might I suggest ignoring the bad behaviour and praising him when he has been good
That way he learns that saying bad words or being naughty doesn’t get the communication he wants. Only being kind and good gets results

He doesn't watch YouTube or know what it is, he watches disney+ usually one of the toy story’s or cars or something else but he doesn’t sit and watch the whole thing it’s usually on the tv and he plays while it’s in the background. He doesnt have his own device

He changed nurseries because hed got a space at the school nursery, he couldve continued going until august but I thought it wouldve been too much as it would only have been a few days break between his last day and then starting the new one

Hes not potty trained because I was advised not to when dd was born because he had already had a lot of change. I tried in April this year but he didn’t seem ready at all then in august he was just weeing everywhere but the potty or toilet and he didnt seem to be getting it at all

Some of the language started in august ish but it’s just got progressively worse

To the poster asking if he mixes with older children at nursery I don’t think so, i know some of the outdoor area like the water table is shared as they’re in the same place. The meeting is this afternoon and i’m dreading it

Hi. It sounds tough what you’re going through and understandable to feel worried. He’s still very little but given that he’s experiencing language difficulties that may be affecting his play and some delayed toileting skills I would approach the meeting with nursery openly. Try not to feel worried. If he were my son I’d be looking to refer him to a speech and Language Therapist for an assessment of his development, including play, understanding and use of language. It may be he needs some early support at nursery and early years.

Can he go back to his old nursery?

To swear accurately within a sentence, such as your examples in completely atypical 3 year old behaviour. He has heard those sentences said in similar contexts somewhere.
Ask for referral to Early Help. And start introducing sanctions such as removal from wherever you are eg go home early if he starts etc. early help will support you

Probably a long shot but my daughter started saying weird stuff in a weird accent at around 3 and it freaked me out, then DH realised she was repeating phrases and words from a show we watched once she had gone to bed. She obviously wasn’t sleeping and was overhearing our shows, then repeating it.

His other changes are a bit more worrying however and I think that’s worth a visit to the GP.

These phrases have been learnt, from being repeatedly heard, over a period of time. It could be coming from another child within the nursery setting or an adult working at the nursery. No one wants to think about adult, who's job is to look after very young children, is rouge, but sadly it does happen. Or that another child at nursery, may be being exposed to such awful language, at home but again, yes it happens.

This. A family member was a nursery nurse until recently and the last nursery she worked at sacked a staff member for using that sort of language to babies and small children.

I would revisit the SEN angle to be honest. Even though the issues have magnified recently, the things that you describe as typical 3 (nearly 4) year old behaviour - constant tantrums, pushing when angry, not potty trained - aren't typical. Perhaps the change in environment has caused dysregulation, he is even more unsettled and is acting out more. Screaming at you and the language he's using are not typical.

How many hours a week does your son spend in nursery? Do your children have a grandma who could come and spend a few days with you or a long weekend and help you re-start the potty training?

What was he watching when he was spending time with his dad? Did his dad have friends round?

You seriously think another child might not be hearing it at home then repeating it to OPs son?

Where on earth is your child getting language like that from?
That is as concerning as their behaviour. He's not naughty, he's angry, very angry and you need to work out why, and where he is getting the idea that killing people will solve his problems. Toddlers can be quite aggressive , but I don't think what you are describing is normal.

I'm sorry but if your 3 year old is using such terrible language they must have heard it from somewhere else first?

It won't be picked up from nursery that's for sure.

I agree with others saying I'm surprised nursery haven't got in touch with social services. Her behaviour and language is learned from somewhere and still wearing a nappy needs help as well. He needs support.

I think your kid has been subject to abusive language. I would be interested to be a fly on the wall when your ex has him and your back is turned. My husband didn´t speak to my daughter in the same way if I wasn´t present, when he had to watch himself, as he knew I would call him out. I would take him to a child psychologist, I am doing the same with my daughter and it is nothing as extreme as what your kid is displaying.

This is truly astonishing. I'm almost 50 and I socialise with people whom I choose to, and I watch absolutely anything that I want to on YouTube and other sites... but even I never hear language like this - and I would find it extremely jarring if I did, especially regularly enough for it to stick in my head.

A PP mentioned EastEnders, which is indeed an often aggressive, unpleasant programme... but it's not remotely like this. This isn't just 'adults-only' material or behaviour; but indeed not the kind of thing that anybody of any age would normally want as a regular thing in their lives.

It's even scarier that he knows what the nasty phrases mean and the right context to use them (if indeed there is a 'right' context for that at all). Does he ever call a man or boy a 'bitch' or does he understand that it's a word that's only used to show violence and aggression towards a woman or a girl?

If you're sure that he hasn't heard it from screens or any adult carers, it can only be another child at nursery, who is showing extremely clear signs of abuse. You need to raise this with the nursery pronto, so they can try to identify which child it is and seek an urgent referral for them. Without wanting to state the obvious, if this is allowed to carry on unchecked, and your child says this to other children, it will soon be your child who is assumed to be being abused and the instigator of these shocking behaviours, rather than 'just' repeating what he has heard from a peer.

Is his dad a gamer? Is it possible he played some violent video games in front of your little one? Really struggling to think where he’d pick up such foul language from…

That's a very real possibility, actually. An awful lot of otherwise quite mild-mannered people will turn into furious, verbally-abusive monsters who will repeatedly scream at a screen when gaming.

Don’t dread the meeting OP. Get everything off your chest but be brutally honest. They aren’t there to judge you, they’re there to help. And ask for help as you obviously need it. You have two very young children and a father who is as good as absent. Ask lots of questions and take notes if you can. Also make some notes to take along to the meeting as you may clam up and have a mental block if you’re feeling nervous. Good luck.

It only takes one time for a child to hear something and then repeat it (in my dd's case to never, ever forget it!). If he has not heard this from you or nursery then it seems like his inconsistent dad must have been shouting this at him, and as it is the first time he has heard those words and phrases it has stuck in his head. Two months when your ex last saw your dd coincides with just after your son leaving nursery, when all this started happening.

Don't let people make you feel bad about the potty training stuff. Its so hard when they aren't ready, then all of a sudden it feels like you missed the boat. Our neurodiverse child is in the process of being potty trained and they're nearly 4. It is taking weeks, not days. We stayed in for a week then gradually went out and still bring the potty everywhere after over a month. He wears nappies at nursery still. Its really hard, especially on your own with another child, but he will get there eventually. Consequences and rewards don't really work on neurodiverse children. That's something to consider.

I've got no idea where he is getting these words from, but it might comfort you to know that he probably doesn't know what any of them mean, he just knows they promote an instant, electric response from you, and he is feeding of it as a sensory thing. The advice is usually to try not to react, even though I know that's hard. Another thing to consider is that when autistic children laugh inappropriately it is rarely because they are finding it funny but more of a stress response and their nervous system not handling things properly. I don't know if all this is happening with him, but it's something to consider. He's only 3. Non of this will be malicious or purposefully designed to hurt you.

I think a speech therapist and OT would help.

Agree with all the PP saying that the language is coming from somewhere and you need to do some detective work to find out where. Even if he doesn't know what it means, it's really not normal to be coming out with that stuff at 3. It's either coming from screen time, other kids or the adults he is around.

I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of SEN either, changing settings is exactly the type of life change that can make it become apparent. Additional needs aren't always obvious from a very early age.

I'd get in touch the Health Visitor team rather than the GP and just talk through everything that is going on at the moment.

That is really worrying that he’s been hearing language like that. My almost 5 year old has been going to his school since pre school and has never said even one of those words, he’s never even said the words fat or ugly let alone swearing.

For him to have retained and heard those swear words that much I’d be looking at the school if you’re really sure he’s not heard that anywhere else. I’d ask if they have issues with any other children swearing or using language like that.

How is his sleep?