My 3 year olds language and behaviour is really concerning

[adviceneededs]

i’m honestly exhausted and don’t really know what i’m expecting people to say. ds is 3 and 8 months and he left his old nursery in July to start school nursery in September and since then everything seems to be getting worse. He’s hitting, pushing, scratching, throwing things, running away when he’s told no, taking his nappy off and coming out with things that make me just stare at him because i have no idea where he’s got them from. I’m dealing with it all day and by the evening i’m just completely done.

Before July he was difficult but difficult in a normal 3 year old way. He had tantrums, shouted, didn’t like sharing and could push if he was cross but he was also affectionate and funny and could play nicely. This has really only been like this since July so i don’t think it’s SEN because surely if it was something like that he would have always been like this? It feels like something has changed rather than this being how he’s always been. His old nursery never raised anything like this with me and he was there until July, so i keep thinking something must have changed.

He’s still in nappies. I tried potty training in August and it was a complete failure so i stopped because i couldn’t cope with another battle. Since July he’s started taking his nappy off constantly. He’ll pull it off and throw it across his bedroom, wee on the floor and then laugh when i ask him why he’s done it. He sometimes takes all his clothes off as well and runs around naked refusing to get dressed. At school nursery he’s pulled his trousers and nappy down during free play and apparently tried to get another child to take theirs off too. He thinks it’s hilarious when i tell him to stop and doesn’t seem embarrassed at all.

The things he says are getting worse too. He says “i’m gonna kill you”, “i hate you”, “you’re dead”, “shut up you stupid bitch”, “fuck off you idiot” and “you fucking bastard”. He’ll say “you’re a fucking dickhead” if i take something away and “what the fuck are you doing” if i tell him to stop something. He doesn’t even say them properly sometimes, it’s more like he’s repeating phrases he’s heard without knowing what half of them mean. I don’t use this language at all, let alone around him. I don’t swear at him or talk about adult things around him so i genuinely don’t know where he’s getting it from.

Sometimes he’ll just repeat a phrase over and over even though he clearly doesn’t understand it. I’ve asked him what “i’m gonna kill you” means and he just says “kill you” back and laughs. He has apparently said to a nursery child “fuck off you little shit” because they wouldn’t give him a toy. Another time he told a member of staff “i’m going to fucking smash your face in”. I honestly don’t know where a 3 year old even learns to put words together like that. If i ask him where he heard something he either says “nursery” or starts laughing and changes the subject.

His behaviour generally is awful at the moment. He’ll throw his food on the floor, tip drinks over deliberately, spit, scream, kick doors, throw toys at the wall and hit me when i try to stop him. He has started biting himself when he’s angry and banging his head against the sofa. If i tell him no he’ll sometimes run into another room and start pulling things off shelves. He can be playing perfectly happily and then suddenly hit dd because she touched something he wanted. He doesn’t seem to think about what he’s doing at all until afterwards and sometimes he just laughs when i’ve told him someone is hurt. He’ll also deliberately do things i’ve just told him not to do and then watch my face to see what i do.

dd is 1 and 2 months and i’m finding that the hardest part. He can be lovely with her and then suddenly push her over, grab her arm, pull toys away from her or shout right in her face. Once he pushed her backwards and she hit her head on the floor and another time he put a cushion over her while she was lying down. I pulled it away straight away and she was fine but it scared me. He has also thrown toys at her, kicked her toys into her and once squeezed her face when she was crying. I don’t think he was trying to seriously hurt her but i can’t take the risk so i don’t leave them alone together anymore. I’m constantly watching him when he’s near her and it’s exhausting.

Nursery are seeing the same sort of thing. He’s hitting and pushing other children, scratching, grabbing toys, throwing toys at people and running away from staff. He’s apparently knocked a child over deliberately and scratched another child. He refuses to sit down when asked, shouts over adults, climbs on furniture, empties boxes of toys onto the floor and sometimes just runs around the room screaming. They’ve told me he’s had to be taken away from other children because he was trying to hit them. He’s also apparently told another child “i’m going to fucking kill you” which obviously made me feel even worse. They’ve now asked me to come in and talk about it because they’re concerned about how much it’s happening.

I honestly don’t know what to do anymore. I feel like i’m saying “don’t hit”, “don’t throw”, “get dressed”, “leave her alone”, “use nice words”, “don’t take your nappy off” about a hundred times a day and none of it is sinking in. I’m not saying he’s a horrible child because he isn’t. He’s my little boy and i love him, but i’m finding his behaviour really difficult to cope with now and i’m worried about what happens if he carries on like this at nursery.

I haven’t spoken to the GP yet because i don’t even know what i’d say without sounding ridiculous. I keep thinking maybe i’m making a big thing out of normal toddler behaviour but then nursery tell me he’s hurt another child and i think no, this isn’t normal for him. It’s only really been this way since July, when he left his old nursery, and that’s why i don’t think it’s something he’s always had. I just don’t know what i’m supposed to do with him.

Nursery want to meet me tomorrow and i’m dreading it because i don’t know what they’re going to say or what i’m supposed to ask them for. Do i ask for an urgent referral somewhere? I don’t even know where i’d be referred to or whether they’d just laugh at me because he’s three. Do i ask the GP, nursery SENCO or someone else? I don’t want him being labelled as the naughty child when he’s only just started but i also can’t keep pretending everything is fine when he’s hurting dd, hurting other children and saying things like “i’m gonna fucking kill you” all day. Has anyone had a child suddenly change like this around 3/4? I’m so tired and honestly don’t know what to do next and I’m worried they’ll refer to social services if this carries on because it is concerning

Are you a single mother OP? Just hoping there’s someone at home to help you with this. In any case, please see GP and tell them all the things you’ve posted here.

Do you have a sitter he could have heard these things from or gone on a playdate to another child’s house where he might overheard something?

It does seem like the transition to a different nursery has overwhelmed him and set all this off.

Unfortunately, it absolutely could be nursery. Not from staff, but picked up from another child.

He could have heard it at nursery. I’m afraid it’s not impossible (but they are unlikely to admit it)

What about playing outside? Could he hear any neighbours using this language?

However I think it is much more likely that it is from either his father or father’s friends. I would want to know who has been present while he is with his dad.

Is there any chance he could have overheard arguments from neighbouring houses or gardens? Those are not just isolated swear words like f or sht etc… those are full and sensible violent phrases. I also think he would have heard them more than once, in order to use them so fluently at his age.

I was also going to mention that it could be coming from another child at nursery, sadly. It could indicate they are being abused. I would try to make enquiries regarding his interactions with other children.

Oh Wow, I do really feel for you @adviceneededs! I think that before you say anything else at the meeting tomorrow you should ask whoever is at the meeting, if any of the other children show any of the negative traits that your DS shows? You are not asking for names or even their gender, so it shouldn't be a safe guarding or privacy issue, for them to be able to tell you. If they admit that they have one or more children who show at least sime of the same traits eg the awful swearing, or the horrible threats, then do the children showing those traits and your DS all hsve the same person as their class mentor/teacher/help? The answer to that is probably no, but if it did happen to be a yes, then that is something that they should look into.

Back to your DS's influences away from school, which in all likelihod where his very troubling behaviour stems from. The first thing I need to ask you OP - and please remember, none of us know you so this is in no way a personal 'attack' on you: If you haven't been totally honest with us that is fine, but you obviously won't get the same advice as you hopefully would have if you had been completely honest. Please try really hard to be completely truthful in the meeting tomorrow, because if you are not someone official, maybe not any of the nursery staff, but a litle further along the line, will almost certainly find out what is going on, and that of course, is what is needed here, in order to enable your child to become hsppy and well ajusted in the future.

As things stand at the moment, Social Services will not take your DS off you, but they may well ban - with a court order if necessary - another person from having any contact with him, whether that is his father, any of his grandparents, any uncles or aunts, any friends of yours who spend time with him alone, and any boyfriend that you have right now, even if he only gets to spend a few minutes alone with your child while you are in the house. If you do have a boyfriend who has met your DS then after your son goes to bed - and it should only ever be you who puts him to bed, or is even allowed in his bedroom - do you ever watch porn on a screen anywhere in the house? Do you ever watch any films at all that are not childrens films, whether that is on your own, or with someone else? Has Eastenders had any episodes that have been shown after 21:00hrs, or any other programmes, U tube, etc that ever has aadults swearing on it, or threatening to kill people etc. I have just thought of another category I should mention, have you any older children, even a lot older, that maybe don't even live at home anymore, but do come to visit, or that your DS goes to visit? It doesn't matter how sure you are that no-one in his life would behave like that in front of him, because someone is acting like that.

As I said at the start, I have a lot of sympathy and empathy for you, but you really must be honest with your GP, SSs if they get involved, and anyone else who becomes part of his safeguarding team, even if that means you being embarrased about some aspect of your caring for him, or even if it will get you in trouble, for example, leaving your DS alone in the house, even at night-time, and even if you think he is asleep. I"m sure you agree that your DS and his dear little sister, are more important than any embarrassment you may feel, and more important if you were to get charged with severe neglect, for eg leaving h alone as I said above. Good luck OP, I really hope you can get to the truth without it causing you too much mental pain. By the way, not one mother on Mumsnet is perfect, including me - I have made so many mistakes over the years, most of them with my poor first born, who is in his 40's now!

Ofsted? Because a very badly behaved child swears? They won’t be interested at all.Do you seriously think that school nursery staff are swearing so much that a 3 year old has picked this up and now routinely uses these words? Every kid in the nursery would have fuck in their vocabulary if this was the case!

It's not uncommon for abusers to single out one child or a small amount of children to abuse. Ofsted would absolutely be interested in any safeguarding concerns.

I want to ask what discipline are you doing aside from telling him 'don't do.....'? My kids all had different disciplines that worked.

Putting one child somewhere like his room for an age-appropriate period of time works with the more sociable or attention seeking kids and not others, the same with removing a favourite toy or privilege can work for some kids. Telling them not to do something only works with the kids who don't want to upset you or be in trouble.

I wonder if you need to find a strategy that works specifically for him and that might take trying a lot of different ways to find the one (it's usually the one that upsets them as it meant to show them consequences to behaviour and act as a deterrent). Then use that discipline tool for everything from bad words to throwing things etc. It shows him that he is not in charge and that you won't accept that behaviour etc.

Really feeling for you having to deal with this and with another little one to protect as well.

This. this is the main thing that stands out as way off the charts normal. Sorry this sounds so hard. At first I thought maybe an adjustment or seeing someone hit at his new nursery combined with a difficult to manage child (this happened to mine a bit at a new nursery copying it at home). But the language and intensity of the behaviour needs some support / assessment. School can refer to play therapy as a start but I’d try CAMHS too.
also some parenting strategy with lots of praise whenever he does anything slightly slightly good or positive to counter the feeling of all those don’t. NVR parenting therapy/courses (look it up- it’s private or via CAMHS) are good for this but he might be a bit young.