My 3 year olds language and behaviour is really concerning

[adviceneededs]

i’m honestly exhausted and don’t really know what i’m expecting people to say. ds is 3 and 8 months and he left his old nursery in July to start school nursery in September and since then everything seems to be getting worse. He’s hitting, pushing, scratching, throwing things, running away when he’s told no, taking his nappy off and coming out with things that make me just stare at him because i have no idea where he’s got them from. I’m dealing with it all day and by the evening i’m just completely done.

Before July he was difficult but difficult in a normal 3 year old way. He had tantrums, shouted, didn’t like sharing and could push if he was cross but he was also affectionate and funny and could play nicely. This has really only been like this since July so i don’t think it’s SEN because surely if it was something like that he would have always been like this? It feels like something has changed rather than this being how he’s always been. His old nursery never raised anything like this with me and he was there until July, so i keep thinking something must have changed.

He’s still in nappies. I tried potty training in August and it was a complete failure so i stopped because i couldn’t cope with another battle. Since July he’s started taking his nappy off constantly. He’ll pull it off and throw it across his bedroom, wee on the floor and then laugh when i ask him why he’s done it. He sometimes takes all his clothes off as well and runs around naked refusing to get dressed. At school nursery he’s pulled his trousers and nappy down during free play and apparently tried to get another child to take theirs off too. He thinks it’s hilarious when i tell him to stop and doesn’t seem embarrassed at all.

The things he says are getting worse too. He says “i’m gonna kill you”, “i hate you”, “you’re dead”, “shut up you stupid bitch”, “fuck off you idiot” and “you fucking bastard”. He’ll say “you’re a fucking dickhead” if i take something away and “what the fuck are you doing” if i tell him to stop something. He doesn’t even say them properly sometimes, it’s more like he’s repeating phrases he’s heard without knowing what half of them mean. I don’t use this language at all, let alone around him. I don’t swear at him or talk about adult things around him so i genuinely don’t know where he’s getting it from.

Sometimes he’ll just repeat a phrase over and over even though he clearly doesn’t understand it. I’ve asked him what “i’m gonna kill you” means and he just says “kill you” back and laughs. He has apparently said to a nursery child “fuck off you little shit” because they wouldn’t give him a toy. Another time he told a member of staff “i’m going to fucking smash your face in”. I honestly don’t know where a 3 year old even learns to put words together like that. If i ask him where he heard something he either says “nursery” or starts laughing and changes the subject.

His behaviour generally is awful at the moment. He’ll throw his food on the floor, tip drinks over deliberately, spit, scream, kick doors, throw toys at the wall and hit me when i try to stop him. He has started biting himself when he’s angry and banging his head against the sofa. If i tell him no he’ll sometimes run into another room and start pulling things off shelves. He can be playing perfectly happily and then suddenly hit dd because she touched something he wanted. He doesn’t seem to think about what he’s doing at all until afterwards and sometimes he just laughs when i’ve told him someone is hurt. He’ll also deliberately do things i’ve just told him not to do and then watch my face to see what i do.

dd is 1 and 2 months and i’m finding that the hardest part. He can be lovely with her and then suddenly push her over, grab her arm, pull toys away from her or shout right in her face. Once he pushed her backwards and she hit her head on the floor and another time he put a cushion over her while she was lying down. I pulled it away straight away and she was fine but it scared me. He has also thrown toys at her, kicked her toys into her and once squeezed her face when she was crying. I don’t think he was trying to seriously hurt her but i can’t take the risk so i don’t leave them alone together anymore. I’m constantly watching him when he’s near her and it’s exhausting.

Nursery are seeing the same sort of thing. He’s hitting and pushing other children, scratching, grabbing toys, throwing toys at people and running away from staff. He’s apparently knocked a child over deliberately and scratched another child. He refuses to sit down when asked, shouts over adults, climbs on furniture, empties boxes of toys onto the floor and sometimes just runs around the room screaming. They’ve told me he’s had to be taken away from other children because he was trying to hit them. He’s also apparently told another child “i’m going to fucking kill you” which obviously made me feel even worse. They’ve now asked me to come in and talk about it because they’re concerned about how much it’s happening.

I honestly don’t know what to do anymore. I feel like i’m saying “don’t hit”, “don’t throw”, “get dressed”, “leave her alone”, “use nice words”, “don’t take your nappy off” about a hundred times a day and none of it is sinking in. I’m not saying he’s a horrible child because he isn’t. He’s my little boy and i love him, but i’m finding his behaviour really difficult to cope with now and i’m worried about what happens if he carries on like this at nursery.

I haven’t spoken to the GP yet because i don’t even know what i’d say without sounding ridiculous. I keep thinking maybe i’m making a big thing out of normal toddler behaviour but then nursery tell me he’s hurt another child and i think no, this isn’t normal for him. It’s only really been this way since July, when he left his old nursery, and that’s why i don’t think it’s something he’s always had. I just don’t know what i’m supposed to do with him.

Nursery want to meet me tomorrow and i’m dreading it because i don’t know what they’re going to say or what i’m supposed to ask them for. Do i ask for an urgent referral somewhere? I don’t even know where i’d be referred to or whether they’d just laugh at me because he’s three. Do i ask the GP, nursery SENCO or someone else? I don’t want him being labelled as the naughty child when he’s only just started but i also can’t keep pretending everything is fine when he’s hurting dd, hurting other children and saying things like “i’m gonna fucking kill you” all day. Has anyone had a child suddenly change like this around 3/4? I’m so tired and honestly don’t know what to do next and I’m worried they’ll refer to social services if this carries on because it is concerning

I split with his dad when i found out i was pregnant with dd, ds wouldve been just under 2 and we did argue when he was in bed (when he was awake it was mostly passive aggressive stuff) mostly although never anything as extreme as what ds is saying, his dad did swear at me but like i said he was under 2
We do get public transport and at times there are loud teen boys being a nuisance and swearing saying things like fuck off etc but obviously i’m not blaming that either because it’s not every time

When he does something like hurts dd i try and put him on the naughty step to calm down but he just gets up and laughs, i would put him in his room with a stair gate but he would throw cars over it and then learnt he could just climb it

He has learned these words somewhere.
My Son has also just started at his school nursery and I would absolutely hit the roof if I found out another child had said to him 'I'm going to fucking kill you'. I think you're honestly going to have to remove him from nursery until this is sorted as you and the school are placing other kids at risk.

Bloody hell! I'd be seriously worried about his care in nursery if you really are sure he isn't picking up that language anywhere else. I have a similar age child and if they started speaking like this after starting in a new care setting, I would never ever be taking them back.

Did he start this language before September? What was his childcare setting July to August?

I agree with this.

@adviceneededs some of what you’re talking about can be typical toddler behaviour in relation to birth of a sibling/ frustration/ exploration, but not all of it. I think it sounds like he is doing his best to let you know he is in real distress.
He must have heard these phrases enough to remember and repeat them; they will not simply appear in his mind. They are abusive adult phrases.
You need to think very carefully about who he has (or has had) contact with when you haven’t been there, grandparents/ aunties or uncles/ friends/ neighbours. You need to think where he has possibly been exposed to really frightening behaviour (it may be a person you would never imagine). If it can only possibly be nursery, then I would want to be pulling him out and reporting them to Ofsted to review any recordings they have for safeguarding breaches. I think that this really requires you to see what you may not want to see if you are to protect your child.

Does his dad use this kind of language?
I would ask the nursery if any other children have used this kind of language too?

This is chilling. As others have said, he's heard it from somewhere. Does he ever spend time alone with your parents, for example? It wouldn't be the first time a seemingly "sweet old lady" had been horribly abusive when they thought no one was looking... If not, then it's got to be someone at nursery. The nursery is attached to a school - do they have any contact with the older children? If not, perhaps it's one of the adults at nursery. I'd go to the meeting but I'd be thinking about withdrawing him. And asking Ofsted to look into it.

@adviceneededs this post has to be a wind up. Almost 4 and still in nappies is one thing but no way would a 4 year old be speaking like that.

Children do sometimes swear because they hear an adult or another child say a word. However the language your little boy is using is way beyond that. It's violent, aggressive language and he must have heard an adult using those words and phrases. I would be surprised if he was copying another nursery child but you could discuss that with Nursery. Children i have worked with who do use the language you describe do so because adults around them use those words often. Or they watch inappropriate TV/ screen content. I think you are right to be concerned because along with the language he is hurting other children and his sister. He is obviously disregulated and lashing out and there has to be a reason for that. It sounds very tough OP, but you are quite right to want to get some help.

This isnt a windup? He’s still in nappies but i’ve tried, I was told not to start when he was 2.5 as he had a lot of change with dd being born but i tried over easter and in august. I’ve already said Im concerned about his language how is your comment helping in any way

He was home with me over the summer, some of the language started at home with me like saying he hated me and saying I was fat and ugly etc and he shouted “die” on one occasion when a bee was near him

His contact with his dad isn’t consistent and he usually only has him for the day but not much , it is a possibility he could’ve got it from him but i don’t know as he’s not seen him for a few months and he’s not had him for the day for even longer .

Does he watch YouTube ?

This is seriously worrying. I would not let anyone else look after him alone until you get to the bottom of it. The things he’s saying have to have come from somewhere.
The other behaviour could be down to the changes he’s experienced and having to share you with dd and arguments between you and dad. Spend lots of time with him and focus on positive behaviour. Ignore the negative behaviour as much as possible. Naughty step is a load of bollocks. (I was also sucked in by stupid nanny so no judgment there).

The language is worrying and I agree with what others have said about looking into it, including at nursery or with his dad, however don't underestimate the impact of what he may have seen or heard before the age of two or things he may have heard from his dad months ago. Often we think that because they were so young they won't remember or won't have taken it in but at that stage everything that happens around them literally forms part of their brain development. I work with older children with behavioural needs and have witnessed children display really specific and awful behaviour that replicated experiences that they had at an incredibly young age. One has always stayed in my mind as he was removed from his parents before he was even one, yet as a pre-teen did (or tried to do) exactly what he had lived through and experienced as a baby to others.
Your son could have heard these things from his dad months ago, but it may only be coming out in his behaviour and vocabulary now.

In terms of him laughing, I would avoid immediate consequences if the result is him laughing. My own 3 year old went through a phase of this if she was given into trouble. At that age and stage of development, being given into trouble for something can feel as rewarding as being praised (this is all down to the developing brain). With my daughter, instead of giving a consequence or giving her into trouble, I would either redirect her or ignore (it would depend on the context and what was happening). I would also look for any cues that she might be about to do something that she shouldn't and try to redirect before anything happened, and would focus on catching and rewarding positive behaviours. She also went through a phase of saying things she shouldn't (not to the level of your son but things she had heard from her older half-siblings like saying shit or calling someone stupid). Her dad used to pick her up on it but it just encouraged her to say those words more as she was receiving a response for them. Once we were on the same page and just ignoring completely that she had said those words, she stopped using them and hasn't in ages. I would take this approach but at the same time try to work out where he may have heard them so that can be addressed.

Sorry don’t have time to write a lot right now but i find this site useful for parenting advice
https://www.peacefulparenthappykids.com

it is likely he may have an additional need like autism and behaviour escalating due to challenge of new environment. Do speak to nursery senco they can let you know if they have seen evidence supporting this.

@adviceneededs you need to get your child checked for abuse or worse i was like this when it happened to me fyi

Oh come on. I have every sympathy as it sounds awful but I simply don't accept that you have 'no idea' where he got such foul language from....at 3. Is it nursery? If not home, where the hell else!?

@adviceneededs sorry if you explained this but I think you mentioned a nursery change, why was that?

If he didn’t get it from you he got it from someone, and it’s horrific so that is what you need to focus on.

My money is on dad (or someone who dad lives with) because it isn’t the baby, and I cannot believe it could be nursery, so time to get in Social Services for support. Self refer and tell them you need help, I think it could be better for him to only see dad under supervised visits for a while until you work out if the rage and language is coming from there, it isn’t normal behaviour.

I hope nursery can help, try to let them, and make sure you advocate for him…someone is influencing him negatively, you need to work out who while he is young enough for you to fix it.

Sorry op, you need to stop playing the innocent. This is urgent. You must have some idea where this might be coming from. He's 3. Don't you know who he's with or what he watches?

To the person who said he's getting it from Eastenders, please have a word with yourself.

Kids don’t talk about their problems, they use behaviours. The kiddo may be screaming for help. Do you have anyone look after them when you’re not home? Has he recently come across any traumatic experiences? Try to talk with him and find clues. Be honest with yourself and think hard about his daily routine. Has anything gone wrong? Has he hurt himself anywhere? Has anything changed? Is he eating well? Has he got all the vitamins and minerals he needs? The devil is in the details.

The language is a great concern, of course, and you need to find out where's he's heard it.
But his other behaviours are really concerning too. In particular, being violent to other kids, and biting himself. This feels like more than acting out.
Go to the GP, rule out anything physical, and request an urgent referral to a child psychologist or other early years practitioner.

This kind of behaviour and language doesn't come from nowhere.

I would be wondering what has been happening at nursery because, if I am reading this right, that is the one big thing in your DS' life that had changed just before he started speaking and acting in this way. Is being ill-treated by a member of staff causing this behaviour? Are they using inappropriate language or could this be stuff he's hearing another child say?

From what you've said, the only other place I can imagine him hearing this kind of language is when he's with his Dad, maybe not from his Dad but maybe Dad's not very child-friendly mate?

Or has he been left watching YouTube Kids without adequate supervision. I hear there's some truly nasty, sweary, violent animations on there masquerading as children's content so maybe gently enquire with his Dad?

Also, is it possible for him to return to his previous nursery setting to see if that helps?

Wishing you and DS all the best.

If this is genuine, then most likely explanation is that he's being abused by a staff member at his nursery, given that his change in behaviour coincides with his shift in nurseries.

I'm appalled that your immediate action hasn't been to pull him out of the nursery, and take him to your GP to investigate the possibility of abuse. It's basically glaring in neon signs that it's the probable cause (although yes, it could be other things).

Tangentially, a good portion of YouTube Kids is blatant fetish content, which I think a lot of parents don't realise.