DD13 called us f****g idiots. I'm fuming

[BrieFree]

I have nc'd for this.
DD13 and I have a complicated relationship. I have always struggled to show her affection and the love she deserves. DH fortunately is a great dad.

We have a severely disabled child too for whom we have to really fight for so that she gets support with therapies etc.

Anyway we were trying to get DD13 a smart phone- her first one. DH had chosen a few in our budget but she absolutely hit the roof, saying how ugly and awful they are. We are talking about pretty good Samsung phones.

She started hitting DH, then hitting her own head, then called us twats, told us to f off and said we are f*g idiots.
I told her to get out of the room and she told me to shut up .
I told DH that we are no way getting her a phone for a long time.
I want to give her a screen ban (she has an iPad and a laptop) and ground her for a week.

But tbh, I don't know if that's right. I feel such a rage and yet I blame ourselves for raising dd to be so entitled.

I do struggle in my relationship with her and counselling points to my own difficult relationship with my mum. In fact, this goes back to my grandmother and great grandmother - all had difficult relationships with their mothers.

I hate that I am perpetually angry with her. I don't feel like this towards younger dd. I want to show her love.
What is right to do in this situation?
Only helpful answers please. I don't need criticism as I get how upset dd must be. DH says she picks up on my irritation.

I'm sorry, are you a personal friend of OPs.....?? Witnessed the entire 13 years of her DDs childhood?? 🙄🙄

I’m not excusing her but fear of being bullied and/or excluded at that age can cause strong feeling of fear. They can be shift to being so self centred at this age.

I see it in here quite often, a breathless desire to punish and punish hard. It’s always dismaying, but even more so in this context,

then these people wonder why their kids want nothing to do with them. Kids grow up and they remember,

this little girl has never been soft parented, she’s been neglected, and she’s playing out, the answer is not to make her life even harder, turn her into some sort of emotionally numb robot who does as they are told out of fear, but to work with her, to try to undo the hurt caused, rebuild trust. She sounds like a good kid, who has been dealt a difficult hand in life.

My post wasn’t about just about iPhone either.

All this waffle about not feeling safe and secure are excuses. They’re soft and pathetic. So her mum isn’t overly affectionate? So what. Most parents worldwide are more old fashioned, stricter and enforce harsher levels of discipline. Families often live in much more poverty stricken environments and face much more stress in day to day life. Again those children don’t hit their dads or swear at them.

Well, the "so what" is that a lack of security and emotional warmth literally changes the neurological structure of the brain, effecting self-image, self-esteem and the likelihood of positive future relationships.

Most decent parents would care about that!

lack of security and emotional warmth literally changes the neurological structure of the brain

😂😂😂

I'm guessing it's a vain hope, but I do hope that you don't have any kids

On a post about your daughter, all of your replies are "me, I" and how hard life is for you. You freely admit you don't love her or show her affection properly- but you do with her sibling. Is it any wonder she's behaving in that way? You blame generational trauma- like any of that is her fault? You should have been prepared to put her needs above everything else in your life before she was born. This is so very sad.

Yep I agree . Teenage years are a nightmare in terms of fitting in , I’m sure she is feeling lots of big feelings . I’m sure lots of people would disagree with me but personally I don’t believe in punishing teenagers for trying to u dee’s and and make sense of very big confusing feelings.

This is a great chance for you to step up and show her love and compassion as a mother and try to understand her feelings . I think it would be a far better option than punishing an already struggling child.

*trying to understand

should have read!!

I thought this too.
Shes wrong to use that language but I don’t think you are blameless op. You need to show her more warmth- I’m sure she knows you have negative feelings towards her.. it screams out in your post. Also she has a disabled sibling which is hugely impactful for her.

I’m not sure how you think this post is appropriate- a mother is asking for advice on a parenting board- spells out the highly relevant issues, and this is your response?

Almost as bad as the PP which said a child who spoke to her that way would get knocked off their feet.

Great suggestion. Have DD’s feelings that her mum doesn’t love her proven right by the fact that she left. That’s really going to help. OP doesn’t want to break up her marriage or leave her daughter. She wants to put this right.

You freely admit you don't love her

Where does op say that?

The laugh is on you. It’s been proven via neurodevelopmental studies that the brain operates and develops on a ‘use it or lose it’ principle. When someone is consistently deprived of emotional warmth and safety, the structure of the brain adapts to prioritise survival over emotional growth. And it isn't just a shift in mindset. Neuro imaging studies (like MRIs) show measurable, anatomical differences in several areas of the brain including the prefrontal cortex, which shrinks.

😂

You say your dd spends a lot of time on her appearance. As the mother of a dd, who uses make up and appearance as a mask, I wonder if your dd is doing the same.

My dd was diagnosed with ASD and ADHD in year 13. She developed a severe eating disorder in year 11, in part due to the stress of keeping up the mask. And this was the point, when she started to use makeup as a mask.

My dd is an angry anorexic and for 6 months, she showed zero love and frequently wished me dead, told me how much she hated me. I otoh have had to show her so so much love and care. I was saving her life. It’s bloody hard. And I’m now so immune, being called a fucking idiot wouldn’t even register with me.

Put your anger to the side. Your dd needs you so much and the best thing you can do is to talk to her. Tell her how much you love her. And that much as you are sad that she called you fucking idiots and you don’t want this repeated, you understand her life is tough and you will always love her.

You can go in tough. Or you can use this as a healing moment. And start to give her more time. Teens need more parenting, not less. Especially teens, whose self esteem is as low as your dd’s and mine.

I would also look into testing for neurodivergence.

I'm sorry to hear your family is having such a hard time and I think a lot of the posters could be much kinder with their comments.

I understand why you're angry. You're overwhelmed and dealing with your own trauma and bad behaviour over a phone seems to be the last thing you need. But I would recommended focusing on an emphatic approach to your daughter as she's suffering too and her behaviour is likely a manifestation of that.

Perhaps writing down how you feel or shouting it into a recording on your phone in private to get it out of your system might help.

Then sitting down with your daughter and telling her how much you love her, how proud you are of her and why. That you have a hard time showing it because of how you were raised but you want her to know it. You understand how much of your time is devoted to her sister but you want to find a way to connect more and have fun with her. What would she like to do? Provide some suggestions and keep to a regular day and time you can spend time together (as far as possible).

Let her know you see she's struggling, you're here for her, so is her dad. You hope the therapy is helping her and you're looking forward to getting suggestions from the therapist on how you can help too when the time is right.

I wonder too if (please pardon the expression) if faking it till you make it would help. Just keep talking to her, showing an interest and practising connection by being available would help.

Teenagers will often talk to their parents in the car so maybe that's something to consider too.

Sending best wishes.

@Mummyoflittledragoni get this.

When my DD was 13 and in the midst of a breakdown she didn’t go to school, but would sit in front of her mirror all day painstakingly doing her make up perfectly, taking it off, then starting again. It was very sad to see. A literal mask.

The more I read this the more I think this is the same OP

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/parenting/5451290-dd13-told-us-to-f-off

I've been thinking about you and your DD more whilst walking my dog this afternoon.

You obviously care and want to change and have the beginning of some insight into your behaviour and upbringing, and I would give anything for my mother to come even close to this point.

I am not a counsellor or psycologist, so this is all just from my own experience/ reading.

I think that you need to accept that you do not have a maternal bond with your DD and that that ship has now well and truely sailed. There is no way you can recreated that window of opportunity in early childhood to form it, and you need to grieve that and so does she, and this is really hard and really painful, I've been through it from your DD perspective and it is horrible, and I do still get pissed off with unhelpful comments on estrangement threads, and in real life, on here where people who clearly are greiving much loved mothers wade in with - "one day they will be gone" - yes they will and I still will have never experience that maternal bond - it sucks!! And i get sad at christmas.

You need to think about what non- romantic relationships (friendships/ extended family) you would hope for your DD to have to guide and support her through life as a teen, young adult, new mum, etc, and then you need to become that person to her.

So if you think it would be really great for her to have someone practical, non-judgemental and knowledgable to help her navigate the complexities of adult life like house conveyancing then be that person for her.

If you would like her to know she always has a free roof over her head to escape to without judgement if she ever finds herself in an abusive relationship, be that free roof (I have a friend with money and an annex which has had various waifs and strays in it over the years as and when required, I've never needed it but knowing it was there is a big deal).

If you would like her to have someone who sticks on overalls and helps scrub and paint her new home - be that person.

If you want her to have a friend who looks for the subtle signs that something is not right and gives her the space and opening to talk about it - be that person.

If you would like her to have someone she can trust with her children when she has them - then be that person, which is going to take a lot more work to achieve, but might be your end goal.

There are ways of having a positive meaningful relationship with her without the maternal bond, I love my closest friends I don't have a bond with them in any close family or romantic sense but they are still super important long lasting relationships. The best you can hope for now is to become an incredible life long friend to your DD, you can not create a maternal bond that should have develop when she was a baby and young child, now that she is 13. It just won't happen and trying to force it will make the situation a million times worse.

Read the thread. OP has had therapy for years!!

And this is the problem, you can spend years more doing that and still get no where, and still have people suggesting 'a different therapy', 'a better therapy', X, Y, Z therapy as if it will change anything

Meanwhile the child gets to 14, 15, 16 and before you know it isnt a child any more

OP needs to get on with practical parenting that parents her child, mothers her, spends time with her, values her, even if she does not feel that or believe that. She simply has to do it.

Is your younger DD autistic? It seems like both you and elder DD may be too. The reaction to the phone (meltdown) and not being able to explain why seem similar to my autistic DD (and me). I think you not being in touch with your emotions is a pointer towards this too.

Do you or DH have any inkling as to what might be behind the strong reaction and upset?

It may be that DD has some additional needs that are not being met at home or school that you gave missed, due to the fact that your younger DD has much more obvious difficulties.

Do you do routine hugs and " I love you"s and have a good day/how was your day? These routine things at bedtime, leaving and returning can do a lot of work at maintaining good family relationships. Regular caring interactions of less than a minute each can show her that you are making time in the day for her.

The film nights are good, do you let her choose? It can be painful to sit through some choices, but my DC love it, especially if they think I didn't hate it. 😅

Hi OP,

This sounds tough. Aside from assessments etc (which I would push for - although I understand it must feel like you have enough on your plate) how about looking into some online courses generally about understanding teens and communication?

Something like this below or I think Coram do one. Also your local authority may do something like this if they have an active (and funded!) youth service. I think some of dd's behaviour will be a direct result of her circumstances but some of it is also within the realms general teen stuff. From her perspective, having a disabled sibling, only just getting a smart phone etc will mean that she already feels quite 'different' and I suspect she really wants to fit in (the make up, appearance stuff suggests she is very much seeking approval). Also, as someone else suggested if you can access a young carers /sibling support group i think it would really help to have other kids her age in similar situations to talk to.

Talking Teens - The Centre for Emotional Health https://share.google/E10FzwaOrnNgWhDxS