DD13 called us f****g idiots. I'm fuming

[BrieFree]

I have nc'd for this.
DD13 and I have a complicated relationship. I have always struggled to show her affection and the love she deserves. DH fortunately is a great dad.

We have a severely disabled child too for whom we have to really fight for so that she gets support with therapies etc.

Anyway we were trying to get DD13 a smart phone- her first one. DH had chosen a few in our budget but she absolutely hit the roof, saying how ugly and awful they are. We are talking about pretty good Samsung phones.

She started hitting DH, then hitting her own head, then called us twats, told us to f off and said we are f*g idiots.
I told her to get out of the room and she told me to shut up .
I told DH that we are no way getting her a phone for a long time.
I want to give her a screen ban (she has an iPad and a laptop) and ground her for a week.

But tbh, I don't know if that's right. I feel such a rage and yet I blame ourselves for raising dd to be so entitled.

I do struggle in my relationship with her and counselling points to my own difficult relationship with my mum. In fact, this goes back to my grandmother and great grandmother - all had difficult relationships with their mothers.

I hate that I am perpetually angry with her. I don't feel like this towards younger dd. I want to show her love.
What is right to do in this situation?
Only helpful answers please. I don't need criticism as I get how upset dd must be. DH says she picks up on my irritation.

You really think the best way to deal with an emotionally damaged teen whose mum admits she struggles to love her, who comes second to a disabled sibling, who has developed tics and has expressed suicidal tendencies is by punishment?

As someone with a mum like you, then I pity your DD, it's great that you're seeing the problem and seeking help, but really you should have done this BEFORE having kids, this is not your DDs fault, and expecting your DD to engage with family therapy when your are far from ready is putting the responsibilty on her to fix the problem and bend to you, which i think is at this stage what you want. You have a long, long way to go.

Being entriely unreasaonable and occasionally swearing at your parents = normal for developmental age (which is what you want for your kid even if it is hurtful at the time), and doesn't need punishing you need to wait it out and when she is calm ask her if she would like to discuss phones again at some point.

Self harming and hitting her dad = mentally unwell, she needs real support, which you are obviously trying to access for her, but she is going to remain guarded if you are pushing familiy therapy, she is not going to remotely trust the confidentiality she is entitled to if you are in any way interferring.

You need to get her Dad (she doesn't have a bond with you, she won't open to you, you in your own word 'rage') to dig deeper regarding the percieved bullying risk, ask her who she thinks will bully, why them (what have they already done), and what she thinks will stop it happening ( what phone make would fix it?)? Make her rationalise it. Maybe put her back in control by giving her a budget and letting her spend it on a second hand phone from backmarket/ CEX or a new samsung.

I know this sounds harsh and scathing, but I've been in your DDs place and I now haven't seen or spoken to my mother for over 7 years, and the damage done to me for me to reach that point is never going to be fully undone. You need to do some serious work on yourself.

I think it might be helpful to find a bit of kindness for yourself. Going to therapy to work on past issues is an act of love, an acknowledgement that you want your children’s’ experiences to be different. I wonder if you are a better mother than you portray here? Perhaps try to identify times you and your daughter have enjoyed time together or when you have gone out of your way for her. It must be hard to have a high needs child and have anything left over for the other one, especially when care was in short supply for you. 13 is a tough age with lots of changes going on and even very secure teens can be unlikeable at times. Your anger might be about lots of things including your sadness at having a disabled child. It might help to work on some listening skills so that you can hear how your daughter is feeling. Perhaps if you heard her talk about her difficulties you might be able to connect with her a bit better. There are some good books on how to communicate with teens. The fact that these exist show that lots of parents struggle with this. You could show your daughter you want to connect by saying something like, ‘ I know things have been tough for you and I know I haven’t always listened to you/ shown you I care/ etc’. I would like to understand more about how you feel about the phone situation.’ (For example.) If she’s then able to tell you anything, you just listen and reflect back what you hear her say.’ Don’t contradict or offer advice, just listen, even if she says something you disagree with. Then try to acknowledge her feeling and validate it. It doesn’t mean you have to buy an expensive phone but if you show her you have heard her disappointment or whatever feeling there is, you can start to build a bridge. May not work initially, but worth starting to try. A good family therapist could help you with this process.

I can understand that it’s hard to know by ‘work on yourself’, it’s all a bit wishy-washy.

Some practical suggestions:

• tell her the budget for a new phone and let her research options for herself, that might give her more of a sense of control
• have an open conversation about struggling to be maternal - you don’t need to share your whole history but simply telling her you don’t always know how to be the best mum is a good way to show your vulnerability
• schedule some regular time together, ideally learning something new together. It sounds like you need to get to know each other a bit more.

She does sound like she’s struggling, wishing you lots of luck navigating it all.

I can honestly say if my daughter had spoken to me like that she wouldn't have stayed on her feet. However my daughter didn't have to struggle with what your daughter copes with every day of her life, a mother that struggles to show her any affection but happily fights for everything her disabled child needs.
Having a disabled sibling is hellish for some children, everything revolves around them and the non disabled child just has to put up with it. When does family life revolve around your daughters wants and needs ?
You need counselling as does your poor child before she has children she struggles to love.

A therapist wouldn’t make that determination unless it was a direct observation of OP herself. The say so of another person is hearsay and not the basis on which to diagnose or advise.

It may be I've just misinterpreted, but you seem to gloss over the fact that you have more than one child with additional needs? Your older daughter hits herself and has tics. Children without some form of additional need don't do this. Don't pour so much empathy and effort into your younger child that you fail to clearly see and support your older child.

She's not telling you you're a fucking idiot just to be rude, it's because she's reached the end of her tether and the phone was just the last straw. Of course she should not be rude to you and should be told off for it, and made to wait for a phone (which you, since you're paying, are perfectly entitled to choose for her). But she clearly needs support. If the school counselling is not making much progress, or your child doesn't trust them or engage, try other therapists. I've heard many people say that you often have to try several before finding one that 'clicks'. Perhaps you should also try a different therapist and, rather than unpicking past trauma, focus on developing the skills you need to calm yourself (so you're so full of rage) and support both children equally?

I remember an argument about getting some trainers and she just didn't understand why they couldn't be the pair she suggested (which were cheap and not trendy) but hasn't taken any interest in what was popular or what I liked. You might think hair & make up is silly but it sounds like your DD is interested in it and enjoys it, as I did in my teens. My mum still comments if I'm wearing a full face of make up!

I do not have a disabled sibling but that rings massive bells with me - and not being allowed to be upset because money was tight- though it never was with favoured younger child. Also even now they do not seem to know who I am - I was always lumped in with sister's tastes and likes.

I assume my later diagosned ND made it worse that I was already struggling to fit in bit over the years with DC friends with this dysnamic and sister friend who had disabled sibling who took all the parental energy and now I think it's often corrosive by itself even when the friendship group understands the dynamic of a diffcult parent or the not having smart phone and adjust for you - it subtly others you anyway.

I wonder if the OP DD is guarded in counselling because she has spoken up in the past then had that used against her.

Personally last thing I'd have wanted at 13 was more time with a parent visibly irriated with me and constantly critising. In my case with older sibling acting out already meant I withdrew as much as possible emotionally and phycially - and that was still bloody wrong. I also think looking back I was very depressed - I mean clinically and self harm and suidal thoughts were part of that but all I got was more critsism.

Having said that I wouldn't have spoken to my parents like that and I have never accepeted the kids talking to me like that. However I would addresss that and do not think I'd use the phone as further punishment - as PP says I think instead of talking to her you are going for punishing.

It's a shame that emotional neglect is not considered the same way as physical abuse.

Let's give you an analogous situation. A child has grown up in a household where she is regularly hit, so is constantly on edge waiting to be hit even when her parents are being nice to her. One day she snaps and hits back and shouts at them that she hates them.

One type of parent would punish her severely.
One type of parent would think "what has brought this on?" and do some self reflection and make some changes to the way they treat her.

One type of parenting results in well balanced, happy, confident adults.
One type of parenting doesn't.

You might wish to do some self-reflection (see what I did there?) on what type of parent you are.

I just want to say that this reminds me of something I did in sheer distress, after I’d had an emergency surgery to remove an ovary… it is possible this was hormones OP? They can affect us really badly…I had rages when I was alone in the car that came from nowhere, the feeling just rose in me, deep low mood for no reason…as I went to go cycling. Scary.

I noticed I was cross with DH in an exaggerated way..so sometimes there was a real reason but my brakes were off…it was hormonal

Something to consider (that and ridiculous peer pressure and bullying)

i had a difficult mum too, now what would I do? Keeping in mind I broke the cycle with my kids, who are ridiculously kind and balanced. First off, just get her the phone she wants. Sit down and talk with her. Listen to her. How would you like your difficult mother to have been with you? Now do that for your daughter.

If you currently have no idea how you would like your mother to have treated you then really start reading a lot of books about good parenting and more to the point, about love. Do a lot of work on yourself. That’s what I did and do.

I think you can delay the smart phone for a bit longer and actually I would as I think with her particular issues she will be even more vulnerable than others. Maybe let her use your phone till then. I think you can also do a screen ban for a very short period of time BUT use that time to reconnect with your DD. If you don't feel it then fake it. Apologise to her for getting angry quickly or for not having enough time for her (however don't tell her that you struggle to feel affection or love for her or even to show it. Don't put that on her. That's your problem to sort out on your own.). Ask her what you could do better and what she would like you to do so you can have a better relationship and then do it. Have regular 1-1 time.

Does DH contribute equally when it comes to looking after your other child? Maybe you can redistribute your work load so you have more time with your DD. (And yes I can imagine that even with the two of you there aren't enough hands and not even time to do everything that needs to be done but I do think that your DD needs you desperately now).

It's not enough to say she has got a good relationship with her dad. She needs to feel loved by everyone she lives with!! Especially her parents. Not being shown love or affection by her mum who she sees everyday is absolutely massive. You need to change. From her point of view it doesn't matter why you are the way you are but she just needs you to be different. Find a way to show her. Tell her again and again that you love her even if you don't feel it in the moment. Spend time with her. Listen to her. Make her feel valued and loved. Kids need that.

And let go of that anger anyway you can. She has been rude, yes, but she has a lot to deal with. I don't think you should be too hard on her for a single outburst. A severely disabled sibling and a mum who struggles to be affectionate. Again that's huge. She has got a reason to be angry. She might also benefit from some counselling to help her deal with these issues.

Also, could it be that you are burnt out and that is why you are so irritated? I know there is no easy solution to that but maybe in the moment when you are feeling irritated with your younger DD then remind yourself that it's actually not younger DD that is irritating you but your own stress and exhaustion.

I completely understand what you are saying, but often in families, and I’m saying this without any judgement whatsoever, parents who have a disabled child will remain in fight mode for that child. They will do their absolute utmost to ensure the best quality of life, and the more serious the disability, the more they feel that they can never be less than 100%.

The OP talks of “fighting for” her child. A parent wants to give that child above and beyond. It’s admirable and natural even, but, and this is going to sound awful, there is often never a period in life where that child gets the minimum required effort. Not, not caring or loving the child, but not spending every single waking moment fighting on the child’s behalf, in the hope that you can fight the disability away.
Because that’s what is required to ensure a sibling, who, depending on the type of disability we are talking about, could also very well be struggling, to get a parent who is not always at the very end of their tether.

This post isn’t a judgement, it’s just a way of saying that if you have multiple children, and one with a disability, especially one which requires lifelong care, it’s all too easy to not think about the siblings and this can cause very serious issues in life.

Well and maybe her mum (OP) is autistic too hence the struggle with emotional connection?

You have my sympathy- I had a difficult relationship with one of my dds up until fairly recently- she’s 20 now. She has 2 siblings with additional needs and I was overwhelmed when she was young. On top of that I had pnd and really didn’t bond with her.
What helped- therapy for her (she’s still going), me ‘forcing’ myself to give her my full attention when we interacted day-to-day, giving her little gifts regularly I.e. a shampoo that I knew she liked- saying along with the giving ‘I saw this and I bought it for you because I know you really like it’ - there is a technical term for this but I’ve forgotten! Basically it is a tangible way of showing her you are thinking about her. And finally, when the time is right, having an honest conversation with her about what is going on with you. I was open with my dd about being overwhelmed and struggling to cope. And apologising for the affect that has had on her.

Jumping to an armchair diagnosis of autism in this case is wild. There is huge symptom overlap between attachment disorders and Autism, and OP has herself identified multigenerational problems with maternal relationships and emotional abuse.

Thank you so much for the messages. I am on a break at work so I have read through a lot.
I do appreciate what many of you are saying. I am feeling very bruised today but I want to clarify that I do love my dd13.
We have done some of the things suggested this week. I ran a bubble bath for her with one of my bath foams that she likes. We do movie night every Friday night - just her and I. I always get in the snacks she likes.
But yes, there us a lot lacking and there are some very insightful, helpful posts here that need unpacking
I am speaking to her school counsellor on Monday and we will pay for private therapy if we need to.
DH and I both have Android phones so they won't sync with an IPhone. We have PCs not MACs. But as a pp said, we will give her a budget and let her choose.

Yes we did ask SS for respite help with younger dd but they refused it. So it is just us.
DH is amazing with girls- so many people comment on how loving he is.
He is very good to me too and yes, I didn't realise so much about my my traumatic past has effected me until I had children. My sister has never been able to have a relationship and I'm in one because my DH is a very stable man from a solid, kind family.

Yesterday both dds and I were playing and DD13 was crying with laughter as she does love her younger sister. She in fact calls her "Bestie".

But I know there is so much more going on here. I really appreciate people taking the time to even challenge me (in a kind way) as I am aware I need to change. Some pp have suggested actual pointers to do and these are the most helpful posts tbh.
I have got to go back to work but a lot of support here, thank you.

Posted at the same time as your update.
Your comments state that you often get angry with her - yet you are complaining that she gets angry? How does your anger manifest? Do you shout? Hit? Swear? Learning to control this is a start.
I feel so sad for your DD who you clearly don't love, she will feel this every day, every time you show love to her sibling, every time you shout. She is crying out for help with serious mental health issues yet you basically say she's a drama queen.
You need help ASAP. Be kind to yourself and her!

Teach her to take what for granted? The mother who doesn't love her? Did you notice the child was treating herself with viciousness? It's really not about phones.

Also x-posted with update. That's heartening OP. Families are so complicated. When abuse has happened, grown ups are still the children they were inside and striving to be the parent is an ongoing challenge. You are thankfully self-aware and taking on that challenge with a good husband. I hope you can hold it together and keep learning together. Perhaps the struggles will bring you closer. It won't be easy but hang in there and keep being there for both your girls, no matter what. I often think of Mama's lines from A Raisin in the Sun, different scenario about a son but about families and unconditional love. In case it helps

"There is always something left to love. And if you ain’t learned that, you ain’t learned nothing. Have you cried for that boy today? I don’t mean for yourself and for the family ‘cause we lost the money. I mean for him: what he been through and what it done to him. Child, when do you think is the time to love somebody the most? When they done good and made things easy for everybody? Well then, you ain’t through learning – because that ain’t the time at all. It’s when he’s at his lowest and can’t believe in hisself ‘cause the world done whipped him so! When you start measuring somebody, measure him right, child, measure him right. Make sure you done taken into account what hills and valleys he come through before he got to wherever he is."

How much control does she have in her life? Do you often make decisions for her without consulting her. That can be really hurtful to a teen.

Why not give her a budget and let her do her own research?

Something that used to happen to me when and early teens was decisions made for me.

We had two cousins and their mum, my aunt live with us for a while. All 4 of us went to different schools but mine was furthest away.

I would get home last to be told, "We're having Chinese, we ordered you ..."

I like Chinese food, they had probably ordered what I would have chosen but it was the fact that I didn't get a choice when everyone else did that made me grumpy.

When abuse has happened, grown ups are still the children they were inside and striving to be the parent is an ongoing challenge.

Exactly this. OP gets angry with daughter because she, as an adult woman, is not the one dealing with it. It's the hurt, damaged, volatile child inside. That's not a criticism at all. It is, as pp says, the result of abuse and neglect. Hope the adult woman can be in charge from now on OP. In fact, I think she is already starting to be. I mean try comparing and contrasting your latest reply to the earlier ones. 🙂

With this update, your OP clearly came from a point of desperation. Is it that you feel you are 2 people? The one that has been hurt and the mum that you are?
I know this feeling very well. As I outlined briefly in my post about my past, my current life is also a mum to my 13 year old daughter. She is an only child though, pretty much purely driven from my own childhood (disabled sib, trauma, abuse, emotional neglect)
When I had my daughter, I couldnt imagine loving another child and I was terrified of having a second that might have disabilities or additional needs. I couldn’t put myself or my daughter through that based on my own personal experiences (warped I know).

Bering a mum with significant emotional baggage from childhood is hard. I’m learning all the time to be a better person, and to be a present and loving mum unlike my own.

You say you’ve asked for respite for your younger child and was refused? Please keep pushing for this, it’ll be so important for you all in so many ways.

My parents had respite for my sibling, for the majority of those periods I was also palmed off to others, so I rarely got time with my parents without my sibling.
If you do get respite, please use that time to build your relationship with your older daughter.

I really do feel for you, and I’m sorry if my earlier post was harsh. I guess it had echoes of my own experiences and well…. It still hurts. And it always will.
be kind to yourself @BrieFree
Happy to chat further if you would like.

Take or leave the following comments.
But it's hard to stop feeling angry particularly if you're very tired and stressed a lot of the time but you can work on what you do to get calm again.
Don't interact with dd when you're angry, focus on getting yourself calm again first. Start to name to yourself when you can feel your anger grow, recognize what it feels like in your body. Then work on physically regulating your body, breath work, muscle holding and releasing etc.

Meet your dd where she is at and fake it until you make it with her interests. If she likes makeup get her to show you YouTube stars doing tutorials and talk about her favorite brands.
Send her relevant reels etc of her favorite topics or even cute animal stuff. Even if she thinks it's cheesy it shows you're thinking of her and you care.

Make sure you are giving her more compliments than complaints each day, notice good things about her and tell her how much you love them.

God she’s got so much on her plate. Just get her an iPhone if that’s what she wants.

No wonder so many kids in the UK are brats. I’ve witnessed this soft attitude far too often.

It’s a privilege to be raised in the UK, most children struggle far more in life worldwide but they still manage not to swear and disrespect their parents.