DD13 called us f****g idiots. I'm fuming

[BrieFree]

I have nc'd for this.
DD13 and I have a complicated relationship. I have always struggled to show her affection and the love she deserves. DH fortunately is a great dad.

We have a severely disabled child too for whom we have to really fight for so that she gets support with therapies etc.

Anyway we were trying to get DD13 a smart phone- her first one. DH had chosen a few in our budget but she absolutely hit the roof, saying how ugly and awful they are. We are talking about pretty good Samsung phones.

She started hitting DH, then hitting her own head, then called us twats, told us to f off and said we are f*g idiots.
I told her to get out of the room and she told me to shut up .
I told DH that we are no way getting her a phone for a long time.
I want to give her a screen ban (she has an iPad and a laptop) and ground her for a week.

But tbh, I don't know if that's right. I feel such a rage and yet I blame ourselves for raising dd to be so entitled.

I do struggle in my relationship with her and counselling points to my own difficult relationship with my mum. In fact, this goes back to my grandmother and great grandmother - all had difficult relationships with their mothers.

I hate that I am perpetually angry with her. I don't feel like this towards younger dd. I want to show her love.
What is right to do in this situation?
Only helpful answers please. I don't need criticism as I get how upset dd must be. DH says she picks up on my irritation.

I haven’t read the whole thread but is there anyway you could get a refurbished phone? My 13DD had a Motorola one and when it broke, she was desperate to get an apple phone. We got a refurbished one in the end and it wasn’t hugely more expensive. She had a bit of cash saved up and her Gran gives her £10 per month pocket money so she is contributing that. I paid for it on Klana interest-free. Even though she no longer gets the pocket money until it is paid off, she doesn’t regret her decision.

Can you turn the wifi off to make your point (or change the password then let her have it when she has made this good with you both)?

With my DD who was similar at this age it was the only thing that made her realise how upset we were.

Additionally - and more important than the consequence, she may need additional support/listening/counselling if you can afford it. This is not a reflection on parenting and sending love as I feel (remember) your pain xxx

The mother who doesn't love her?

Nowhere does op say she doesn't love her daughter.

And people seem to be missing that it was dd's father who was showing her a selection of phones on the computer. OP wasn't part of the conversation at the time. So it's hardly her fault that dd blew up over it.

I was maybe a little harsh earlier. You are clearly really trying to heal, but the timelines involved, if my experience is anything to go by, is a long slow one with some big ups and downs along the way.

I had a breakdown at 28, as I was like your sister and couldn't form relationships and then did but he was abusive, had a period on anitdepressants and really really good counselling. I knew then i need to cut contact with my Mother but felt i couldn't because of my relationship with my Dad, I also realised then that if I was ever to be a Mum I needed to 'learn' how to do it properly and I watched friends raise their kids and I read books etc.
At 33 met exH, my Dad died when I was 36 but I was pregnant & HG with DD, so whilst I'd planned this as the end point with my mother, I couldn't find the strength then. Had DD at 37, straw that broke the camels back came when DD was 18mths and I cut contact with my Mum then.
I had changed a huge amount in the preceeding decade but the real healing doesn't even begin until the abuse is gone. I have then spent the next 8 years healing and developing, and divorcing, and had some more counselling (as well as a lot of ChatGPT supported journalling and self reflection at 43. I'm 45 now, so we are talking nearly 20 years to reach the point of where I am at now. If I thought my Mother had put in the work to heal herself I might NOW be in a position to contemplate family counselling, but not before.

You OP are trying to fix this in a tiny timescale, I don't think this will happen.

Despite saying that you do love her, it sounds in fact like you desperately want to love her and know you should love her, but currently don't. For a long time I would have simply accepted being afforded the respect that you'd afford any other person (and then any other adult) in your life from my Mother, so a pretty low bar. I wouldn't accept that now, but if you can do that much for your DD going forward you might buy some time for you to heal.

Would you rage at a work colleague? Would you unilaterally make decisions on important changes or purchases (and a new smartphone is an important change) at work? Would you expect to know what goes on in your colleagues confidential counselling (how do you know your DD is guarded when she is there?), respect that your DD is attending counselling, you are NOT the right person to follow up on it or involve yourself in it, leave that to her Dad or someone else from that side of the family. Would you want a intimate movie night with someone who rages at you, would you relax and enjoy it?

I wouldn’t be worrying too much about the language. It will be the tip of a deep iceberg, our brains aren’t fully developed for a much longer time and teenage years are for pushing boundaries in a safe place.

Highlighting the language is inappropriate and offensive fine.

My parents turned off the internet, took things away, etc etc. End result? Very emotionally immature adults who have poor mental health.

Look past the tip of the iceberg it doesn’t matter. It’s about understanding what is going on underneath and helping her cope better with regulating before she explodes.

It is about a phone today but it isn’t really about the phone.

I'm probably going to repeat stuff others have said BUT.. please try and stand in your daughter's shoes for a day.

School - draconian rules that mean a lapse in memory leads to 2 days in isolation. The pressure these academies put kids under is awful (I live in Cornwall and hear the stories from The Athena Trust. It broke kids.

Friends - pressure to look perfect everyday and fit in. She is also 13 and doesn't have a phone - even with the best friends this will lead to her feeling different. How is she communicating with them? I imagine there will be chat groups etc that she isn't part of. A refurbed Iphone would solve this.

Home a sister that requires most of the attention and a mother who she has no bond with.

Poor girl is miserable, probably trying to shoulder a lot of it/mask and she finally snapped. Listening to what she is saying, please don't punish her for not being super human.

We all say stupid, awful things in the heat of the moment and make mistake. Adults do all the time. Don’t overthink it.

Separate and leave DH raise her. Her reaction is extreme and doesn't sound 'entitled' she sounds very emotionally damaged. It's great that you have realised this is because of your feelings towards her but that needs action now. Things are going to get harder as she goes through the teen years. The pain she must be in seeing you love her sister but not her must be unbearable. It's very selfish to make her live with that day in day out. If you've not been able to love her as a child I can't see you being able to do it through the teen years.

This post isn't really about an iPhone, it's about the daughter feeling she's not enough, her mother is angry, her daughter has learnt that and is angry too. She needs to learn to articulate herself better, but she also needs to feel hurt, wanted, safe, loved. She's testing boundaries as she's scared and hurting. She's angry with her mother. She needs to feel included and makes choices etc. It's not about a bloody iPhone.

Isr kids these days have an iPhone/Samsung when they go up to high school at aged 11. If she's waited two years longer than her peers and now finds out he phone isn't going to be 'cool' amongst her school friends she is probably feeling hurt and bitterly disappointed. Especially as you say you struggle to love her as you should. She will see this as another example of you not caring about her needs.
Of course I don't condone her anger and language towards you but I can see, especially if she's also hitting herself, how frustrated, hurt and angry she is.
When everybody is calm, when you've explained that her attitude is unacceptable, could you or her dad have a conversation about what, in her eyes, is exactly wrong with this phone. Pwer pressure, wanting to fit on at this age is immense at the best of times and she clearly he as big issues at home.
When you've listened, is it at all possible to get her a phone closer to what she was expecting?
I know some people would see this as 'giving in' bit in tours and her particular circumstances I would see that as you showing you understand he we issues on this and trying to grow a bit closer to her. With all the usual pressures of finance, family life and having a disabled child I can see that you have plenty on your plate, but as parents with plenty pressures of our own ,it's easy to down play the particular pressures of a teenage daughter who you have admitted you don't have a great rapport with. It's hard op. 💐

Please excuse typos. 😃

OP, your plate sounds very full and you have my absolute sympathy. Teenagers are a lot. My DD14 is very occasionally incredibly unpleasant to us out of nowhere around these sorts of issues. I find it really stressful and my original go to was to think we had to manage this with some kind of action plan as we had clearly failed and produced a part time psychopath. I've started looking at it differently and it has helped.

Teenage emotions are huge, instant and incomprehensible to anyone over 20 in the same way that toddlers make no sense. I now stay very calm and often end the conversation, removing myself and go and sort myself out. Often she will come and repair the situation (after some general wailing/slamming doors that I try to ignore:DH finds a slamming door very hard to let pass). When the shouting has stopped and some time has passed I might tentatively ask her if she could explain what the problem was as I don't think I fully understand. Sometimes she has largely resolved it herself and sometimes she can make me see what she was feeling even if I don't get it. Sometimes we go round again and I kick myself for not waiting a bit longer.

I am so sorry you have the additional stress of your youngest's needs and your own worries about yourself as a mother to add into the mix. We have none of this to contend with, DD has a charmed existence and still we have moments of what you describe.

I have given up on consequences largely as my goal is to reduce shouting in my house and they don't lean towards that. I have stopped shouting myself as I think I was only showing her how it could be done.

It is tempting to never buy a phone because of this incident but I think it might be better to communicate that you really do want her to have a phone but you need to be able to to discuss it calmly first so you make a good decision. This is a problem you need to solve as a family and you do want to listen to her ideas but once anyone starts shouting that becomes impossible.

I know it is also tempting to consider our offspring entitled when they seem to be demanding a particular something that is very expensive. Without a job, money isn't easy to really quantify as a teen, and it must be frustrating if everyone else has got a particular something and your child hasn't.

My mother and I reserved this level of anguish for shopping for school shoes when I was 13 and I do remember being completely enraged wanting a particular style, her preferring something else and me losing my composure entirely because what she was proposing would be social suicide at school. Some unfortunate lady in Clarks would pitch in with a comment about how wide my feet were without fail and often no shoes would be purchased and we would leave hating each other on the verge of tears. I know I never went to school barefoot but I honestly can't recall how we resolved this.

So I do remember that feeling of being terrified of standing out, even though nobody was actually bullying anyone for a lace up rather than a slip on school shoe. Give her a bit of grace for these very strong feelings about wanting to fit in. 13 is a place I could not be tempted to return to.

Please also give yourself some grace. You seem to have branded yourself a terrible mother but you most certainly are not. The fact that you are giving this situation so much thought tells me that. We are all just making it up as we go along and some days it goes better than others. All any of us can do when it goes wrong is apologise and repair, and see if we can find some way to reach a bit of joint understanding. I really hope you solve the phone decision. She might send you a nice message one day and you'll forget all about the preliminary discussions. I hope so, OP.

FWIW OP, your post of 1144 really made me warm to you. I can tell you want to make your relationship with your eldest better.

I hope you get some practical help from your meeting at school on Monday. And I’d really urge you to go back to social services about respite - your eldest should not be struggling to the point of self harm.

Time and talking will do you the world if good.

as I’d said previously, you’ve had years to seek help for your own difficult childhood and it’s after affects. But I think you need to park that for the moment and concentrate on listening to the cry for help that your daughter is making.

it must be exhausting being parent to a child with significant disabilities. I sympathise. But please find a way to prioritise your eldest for a bit.

I really feel for her at 13 and your mother struggles to show you affection - I think you’re underestimating how this is going to massively affect her!

You need to work on your issues, as you are just passing them on to your daughter which is completely unfair! Pay for private therapy now, you can’t wait for school counselling! I’m shocked and saddened to hear you haven’t tried to do something about this already! Her behaviour was awful but explanatory from what you’ve said you’re like with her! Please please take accountability and sort yourself out, so you stop damaging your poor daughter!!

break the chain and take accountability please

Teenager having a strop about not getting the phone they want is pretty par for the course. What isn't par for the course is how extreme her reaction was, and that I think is something which should provoke worry rather than anger.

Context is everything - I don't think a big punishment is the right approach here. I think a reasonable consequence would be for the conversation about a phone to go on hold for a while.

You know the wider circumstances that explain her reaction and you're clearly trying to work on them.

I know you speak very highly of your DH - how much of a role does he play with your DD day-to-day. It's obviously vital that you build your relationship with your DD but that's something that is going to take time and she clearly needs support now - do you feel she can get that from your DH? Is there more that he can do?

She is like this because you given in to ease your own guilt ffs! Can you not see that the language she is using alone is absolutely disgusting and despicable?! I'm assuming this isn't the first time these words have come out of her mouth??
Parenting is hard! You are letting her down by enabling this behaviour. It'll be tough but you need to ride out this storm because if you think its difficult now, give it another year or so and you'll have a completely out of control child! This needs nipping in the bud now and a serious punishment applied so she knows you are serious and wont be tempted to push boundaries again.
And a week isnt long enough IMHO....

Sometimes you read posts like this and it’s so so upsetting. A child who is emotionally neglected, struggling , and someone rocks on and suggests make it harder for her,

This!… I think similar!
@BrieFree it’s worth a thought
good luck x

This is a very positive update. You can change turn things around.

If you behave badly to her or have been very busy then make sure you apologise. Try to tell her every day that you love her and give her a specific example of why you’re proud of her. This will make her feel good and will make you look for the positives.

I would also carefully consider if your daughter would be neurodivergent.

Your life sounds really difficult. And difficult for DD too. I'm glad you have moved on from grounding for a week.

Ultimately the responsibility is with you. You recognize why you struggle, that's the first step. You can't change what's passed but you can change from today.

Could you say to her, you'd like to have a better and more positive relationship with her, and can you sit down together and share ideas on that?

Movie night and bath etc is lovely, but can you also do 15 minutes a day of dd-led time. Doing whatever she wants to do, set a timer if you need to. Chat about her favourite topic, play a game she chose, listen to her song, whatever it might be.

You need to get a grip on your anger and dispassion towards her. You don't feel connection but fake it till you make it. Count to 5 when you want to shout.

Smile at her when you see her. "Notice" and praise her descriptively and authentically for the things she gets right, but only things she can influence (eg not looks, intelligence - things like "I've noticed you play so nicely with sister" or ""I've noticed you made a real effort with that homework", "I notice how tidy your room is looking, you must be loving it".

Set up realistic family rules for ALL of you to stick to on behaviour like shouting, swearing, hitting and talk about what else you can do and what she needs when she starts to get angry. Have a daily feelings check in.

I hope you never have children. You clearly haven't been gifted with any intelligence - emotional or otherwise.

Haven't read the full thread but have read all your updates OP. I'm a trained counsellor and also had an abusive upbringing with a mother who rejected me and neglected me. Everything I will say is in empathy with you and your daughter. I have DC and worked so hard to make sure that my upbringing didn't impact them and that I was a loving parent. I pride myself on being just that. Not saying I don't have parental challenges of course, but my DC know they are loved to the fullest and we are close. I had to work SO bloody hard to get to that place however.

You mentioned "one counsellor" told you that you were emotionally stunted... (not sure they should have used that language but that's another forum)... and this phrasing implies you have had multiple counsellors rather than a long sustained therapeutic relationship? Is this correct? I do think fwiw you would benefit from long term psychodynamic therapy with a good therapist.

If a counsellor has told you that you are not in touch with your feelings then this is what you need to work on. How can you possibly connect with your DD's feelings if you can't connect with your own? Primarily you do this through proper quality 1-1 therapy. The family therapy is a good idea but you yourself need to prioritise 1-1 therapy for your self to crack this. You said you don't know what this work looks like. The work is committing to this 1-1 therapy and asking your therapist to help you with ongoing work you can do. This may include things like guided meditations, journalling and reading as well as exercises in sitting with your feelings and scheduling time to sit with yourself and feeling scary things like fear, anger etc and get practised at this stuff, alongside the therapy itself.

The issue isn't your DD swearing at you That is the smallest issue in the whole sorry tale. All behaviour is communication. I do feel terribly sorry for her.

I personally wouldn't be introducing unfettered access to the internet and social media in her pocket at this time when she is incredibly vulnerable and I hope you have considered boundaries around that and how you will manage, having her phone in er bedroom etc etc. A vulnerable child like that is a sitting duck for the crap she will see online, the manipulation and the dangerous algorithms. You may feel giving her what she wants will communicate your love but this is not the case. She wants to feel your care.

And them someone comes on here with the 'soft parenting' approach and we wonder why children have absolutely no boundaries anymore....

Agree. People who read the OP's post and come to that kind of conclusion are breathtakingly unperceptive.

This child has never had soft parenting.