DD13 called us f****g idiots. I'm fuming

[BrieFree]

I have nc'd for this.
DD13 and I have a complicated relationship. I have always struggled to show her affection and the love she deserves. DH fortunately is a great dad.

We have a severely disabled child too for whom we have to really fight for so that she gets support with therapies etc.

Anyway we were trying to get DD13 a smart phone- her first one. DH had chosen a few in our budget but she absolutely hit the roof, saying how ugly and awful they are. We are talking about pretty good Samsung phones.

She started hitting DH, then hitting her own head, then called us twats, told us to f off and said we are f*g idiots.
I told her to get out of the room and she told me to shut up .
I told DH that we are no way getting her a phone for a long time.
I want to give her a screen ban (she has an iPad and a laptop) and ground her for a week.

But tbh, I don't know if that's right. I feel such a rage and yet I blame ourselves for raising dd to be so entitled.

I do struggle in my relationship with her and counselling points to my own difficult relationship with my mum. In fact, this goes back to my grandmother and great grandmother - all had difficult relationships with their mothers.

I hate that I am perpetually angry with her. I don't feel like this towards younger dd. I want to show her love.
What is right to do in this situation?
Only helpful answers please. I don't need criticism as I get how upset dd must be. DH says she picks up on my irritation.

There are more than just “difficulties and a distance” - OP doesn’t love her child, show any affection towards her and hasn’t done anything significant in the last 13 years to try and change that.

she sounds like she needs much more targeted help than a school counsellor.

Agree with that.

Also I missed that the OP said she's had years of therapy herself. It's about getting the right therapy and therapist. And that is not easy. More so now that they work online a lot. It's also about being able and ready to engage with the therapy. It doesn't work if you are just going through the motions or having a chat or are stuck in your story.

What you could do is have an honest conversation with your daughter. Tell her about your upbringing, how it has made you emotionally stunted and that you're struggling with feelings and that you know you have failed her as a mother on an emotional level. That you want to work on that. That you understand that it's hard having a disabled sibling. That she's allowed not to love or like and feel angry about her sibling even though it's not sibling's fault. That it's normal and she doesn't have to feel guilty about it. That you love her and that you're working towards showing her that love.

You sound exactly like my mum. My youngest brother was disabled and sadly died in his twenties, my mum was very dedicated to caring for him at the expense of everyone else. I remember an argument about getting some trainers and she just didn't understand why they couldn't be the pair she suggested (which were cheap and not trendy) but hasn't taken any interest in what was popular or what I liked. You might think hair & make up is silly but it sounds like your DD is interested in it and enjoys it, as I did in my teens. My mum still comments if I'm wearing a full face of make up!

I always felt like an outsider at school because all my friends had "normal" families and then an outsider at home because my parents didn't really care unless I did something "bad" (like swearing or having an opinion). Luckily I had a sister close in age and interests so we muddled through. It's shaped a lot of my parenting and making sure I show my two love, listen to them and make time for both of them.

I think you need to radically think about how to salvage this and spend some time connecting with your DD before it's too late. You know you had a tough time with your parents but what does a good mum-daughter relationship look like and how do you achieve that? Its going to take more than a once a fortnight trip to Starbucks.

Trouble ahead.

Get the counselling for her asap.

Sounds like you could benefit from seeing a therapist who takes a more practical approach, so is able to move beyond helping you find insight, and has some expertise in helping you to change - eg by helping you be able to feel and process your emotions and decide whether to act on them or not, while not getting overwhelmed by them or pushing them away.

Your DD is in a tough place - being a teen is hard enough anyway, but bring a distant mother and a disabled sibling absorbing much of the parental attention into the mix, and it's a LOT for her. You sound like you are aware of this, though, and are taking steps to improve things. At this point I would be really listening to DD and making a lot of effort to improve your connection.

I am sorry OP, it sounds tough for everyone. I hear on therapy. Here’s what works for me, the one thing I can change is how I want to be and how I can show up for someone else. Decide what sort of mother you want to be for DD1. It seems you’ve decided you are carer mother for 2 and it is tasks oriented so you don’t have to deal with the stunted emotions side of yourself. Similarly what sort of mother for DD1, and then show up like that, for starters get to know her without judgement. So listening to her, find topics she likes and open questions to get her to talk.

In the kindest way, you know your family history and you know you need to work on yourself- so do it. Read up about parenting, heck leadership books if that’s easier. You’re probably angry with yourself because you seem to have held on to your own helplessness in being emotionally stunted. The anger is about the shame you feel and you’re projecting it on DD as anger. That’s not going to help the next generation, your actions may.

To fix problems short term and make the child feel more secure I would focus more on the child and their behaviour plus putting in place clear boundaries, routines, rewards, practical things rather than focusing on the lack of own parenting or feelings.

Any issues of own parenting or own emotions can be dealt with at a later date. The child not spiralling any further out of control is the most important thing here.

If a parent doesn't feel able to parent a child or the emotions you think you should be feeling. The best thing anyone can do is treat it like you are a care worker/nanny of some sort. I know this sounds dreadful but in these rolls people fake a certain amount of love until they eventually by providing practical care for a child actually start to feel some love. Children thrive on having boundaries and feeling secure. Make the child feel you are always their to keep them safe and on right track. That is a type of love that will eventually grow naturally.

You need to take her to the doctors. The fact she is hitting herself, ticking, joking that she is going to kill herself is not normal behaviour even for a teenager with surging hormones. Her home life sounds incredibly difficult. Having a sibling with high needs is hard, you get pushed to one side all of the time, even when your parents don’t mean it. She has a mother who admittedly seems not to like her.

I would start by taking her to the doctors and then asking her to leave the room and describing to the doctor what you’ve said about how you feel about her here. She needs some support with her home life.

I grew up with two siblings with SEN. This thread has made me feel so incredibly sad for your daughter.

Agree. I suggested CBT somewhere upthread. I worked in disability support for a number of years and saw first hand the difference a good CBT counsellor can make. It’s a mix of talking and practical therapies designed to help with recognition/triggers of unhelpful thought patterns leading to harmful behaviours.

The aim is to equip the patient with the skills and tools to break those cycles. It’s hard work and it forces you to face your demons, but if she can fully engage with it, it may help OP much more than the therapies she’s tried in the past. She clearly wants things to be different and that would be the motivation.

Posters have picked up on the fact that OP is the way she is because her own mother was emotionally unavailable, and it sounds as though the problem is entrenched and going back generations. Not so many have picked up on the fact that OP says her father was abusive. If OP returns to the thread - which l personally doubt, sadly, it would be interesting to know what that abuse looked like and whether it was directed solely at OP or her mother as well.

This touched a nerve with me and I recognise a lot of my own relationship and upbringing with my own mother in what you wrote. Thank you for articulating it so well. I’m sorry we both went through that.

She sounds like she’s really struggling. The make up and hair is her armour.
Could you get her any support via young carers - they offer support to siblings and being classified as a young carer can unlock other support and contextual uni offers down the line.

Its so sad how many of us here had similar mothers. Mine also wasnt interested in me and wasnt able to show love or care for me. I dont think I realised until I was an adult what the word maternal meant to other people.
My brother also was disabled.
What really stood out for me was OP saying she was always angry with her daughter. Why? And that really isnt a normal feeling. Why indeed how can you always be angry? I used to be angry with my mother and went non contact and just refused to think about her for decades. But I wasnt angry all the time.
I was a head of year in secondary schools for many years, there isnt any magic touch in talking to teenagers. I just used to let them talk. Also I never made them a promise I couldnt keep. I found they wanted honesty above all things, they certainly preferred it to being ignored.
But I also found that sometimes they dont know what the problem is and they dont know what help they need. They still need adults to be around during these times and let them be uncertain. I always did my utmost to reassure them that they were normal and would turn out OK in the end. Teenagers need adults to be the calm, they are themselves the storm.

Have you had therapy to work on your own issues of why you can’t show your DD love? That is more urgent in my opinion. I don’t think I could stay with you if I was your DH and you weren’t seeking help for yourself. Your poor DD (yes she was awful on this occasion but I bet there’s a lot under the surface)

Was this a session for you alone or just observed in your DD’s counselling?

I agree with this.

It sounds so difficult for you all as a family but particularly for your older daughter.

I’d do everything I can to get her an iPhone if that’s what she really wants, whether refurbished or new. And then really push hard to work on the real root causes.

Can I ask why you weren't considering an iPhone if that's what she wanted? They are no more expensive than the latest Samsungs. (DD has an iPhone that cost a lot less than my Samsung)

Re your relationship, is there anything you both enjoy? E.g. shared taste in films so you could go to the cinema together or carve out some time where you sit down to watch a series together. If she likes beauty stuff could you take her to both get pedicures or something similar. You are aware of the issues arising from having an unavailable mum, so it is on you to make yourself available.

OP has outlined the therapy she’s received up to this point and says it hasn’t helped.

Seems like you are punishing her rather than speaking and communicating with her. I'd say that is where the problem lies. Also she's a teen they act badly sometimes that's life why do people expect perfect behaviour.

Anyone else have the feeling that OP isn’t coming back ?

At 13, no wayyyyyyy should she be speaking to or treating her parents with such viciousness, her behaviour was horrendous.

I would honestly nake her wait a year, or even longer before she gets a smartphone, she is entitled and it wil teach her to not take you for granted.

She was probably expecting an iphone which are horrendously expensive.

A dummy phone may be a better alternative the mean time.

I agree with this too. And why wouldn't you? At 13, another way is to work with her on the solution. Say you have a budget of X you can get A this iPhone or B this Samsung. You have already done that analysis, come up with a conclusion and handed her the result. She has waited ages for this, she might have her heart set on something and to be told she has to have something else is tough. This is a very visible status thing amongst some kids.

Another, I would argue at this point better, way to approach would be to tell her you were not expecting such an extreme reaction. It clearly means a lot to you and you didn't get that... next time we need to talk more about this stuff. This time though, how about this iPhone? Cause I'm guessing in her eyes you are fucking stupid for not realising how important an phone, and the type of phone, is to her and among her peer group.

Have you even read the fecking thread?