DD13 told us to f*** off.

[GoldenRoses25]

I have name changed for this.
It's late - 10 15pm and she's upset because I won't order a Pandora bracelet as they put the price up from this morning. I told her it may be Black Friday but retailers still do dynamic pricing.

She had been given a £35 voucher but that doesn't cover the cost of a charm bracelet. I was going to pay the extra but I said we'd wait now.

I think she gets grounded and doesn't go out tomorrow with friends
DH thinks I'm always dangling punishments over her. I have a tricky relationship with her, that's true and I know I can be quite punitive. However I don't think such bad language can be ignored.

Any advice appreciated
Screen ban doesn't seem sufficient.

Were you supposed to order it this morning and didn’t? If so I can see why she was annoyed

if you’re always punishing her and it’s not working why not try something else
i imagine she’s really disappointed and was having a lot of big emotions that she felt you weren’t understanding
she shouldn’t have swore obviously but if she doesn’t normally you could just talk to her about it

@GoldenRoses25 A tricky relationship where you 'can be quite punitive' doesn't sound ideal. Nor does 'dangling punishments over her'.

Saying fuck off isn't wildly transgressive. Most adults say it regularly.

Talk to her, reason it out, don't punish.

She has been swearing at us a lot lately.
I don't know what else to do

Are you guys for real? She told her mum to fuck off! Too right she needs to be grounded!

Instead of escalating and creating a battle of wills (punishment) why not just be honest? Acknowledge you’re both tired, but she’s upset you. That will at least get her reflecting on how she behaved rather than feeling justified

then over the weekend get her to come up with a strategy to buy it. Partly depending on whether it was you or her that missed the cheaper deal!

Jesus! No wonder teachers are having such a hard time!
My mother would've knocked me into next week!

What’s the backstory though?

If you’d agreed to buy and the price changed then that’s really disappointing for her. Obviously language is poor. But I would say-

ok you’re really angry about this. I don’t like that language and it upsets me. I need a few minutes now.

ik gonna give you a bit of space and then we can chat about it. Then leave her to come back to you and discuss when you’re both calm.

punishments very rarely have any lasting impact of behaviour change and lead to patterns of resentment, confrontation and bargaining.

Obviously she can't tell you to fuck off, but it sounds like an outburst of frustration. If it's the first time she's done this, I would wait till she's calm and then talk with her about the whole incident. When I say talk, I mean listen as well. Acknowledge why she got so frustrated (you dont have to condone it, but show you understand her pov) and be prepared to say what you could have done better as well.

Leave the swearing bit to the end. And then say something like, "We do have to talk about you telling me to fuck off because you know that is not ok". If it's the first time she has done this, I would probably say, "You need to find another way to let me know that you are angry with me, and Ill help you do that if you want. But if it happens again, there will be consequences". If it's not the first time, go straight to consequences.

You haven’t answered if you were supposed to have ordered the bracelet before it went up in price.

i think this needs answering for context also what dose your DH mean by “DH thinks I'm always dangling punishments over her.” and what do you mean by your quite punitive with her?

Mine too!

At school, at other people's houses, she's behaves impeccably. She is one of the top students in her year group, academically.

It's at home that she can become really rude.
I'm ready to ground her but DH thinks she ought to see her friends

What’s the backstory?

Yes, isn’t it good we don’t just beat children into submission and obedience these days

Ah, just seen your update that this is happening a lot. In that case you need consequences. But it still sounds like you are getting into a pattern with her that isn't working: you punish and she swears. Does your dh have a more constructive way of handling her, or does he leave the discipline to you?

What does “tricky” actually mean?
What does it do for you to be punitive?
Are you able to model effective communication or do things escalate?

Just for info the usual advice is to deescalate, reassure and move on.

So the What Else you could try is saying like “That’s quite rude, you seem angry, do you want to talk about it”. The message isn’t “Fuck Off”, and it’s your job as her parents to demonstrate and teach the skills for her to say “I feel [whatever the emotion is] when, [whatevere the precursor is]”, and then to discuss what you can do about it.

I needed to measure her wrist and didn't get a chance until this evening. I then had seen that the price went up.
She hit the roof and didn't hear me say I would wait until the price went down.
She continued to scream at DH that I was a liar before she went to bed.

The punishments would be so obviously severe that I would be convinced my child has lost all sanity if they swore at me.

I suppose it depends on your culture and values. But where I'm from it's absolutely intolerable.

Oh.

you let her down.

sounds like you’re locked into quite a toxic cycle of poor communication.

You- “I’ve left it too late to measure your wrist and now the prices have gone up. I’m sorry, but usually they will come down again. It’s a marketing trick. I’m sorry, this is really crap”

dd- omg muuuuuuuim this is so unfair

you- I know. It’s rubbish. I’m gutted. I know your disappointed

dd. I’m furious.

you- yep

and wait. Wait for her to try and problem solve with iou. Be curious and patient sounds like you’re quick to angry and quick to find fault. And you’re both locked into this negative cycle.

My tricky relationship with her is something that unfortunately always been there from a tough pregnancy and her being a baby who cried non stop for six months.
I am having counselling but I had a dysfunctional relationship with my mum.
So none of this comes naturally to me.
I have to really think and I get it wrong a lot because the relationship with DD isn't mending

Hmmmh... a child saying this to their parents is hardly the same as adults saying it. And I'm sure many adults wouldn't even dare say it to their parents either.

Not on!!

I agree it’s not normal behaviour (unless she sees it modelled in the house) to tell a parent to fuck off regularly- or at all.

but my priority would be to get to the bottom of why she was so angry rather than punish. Yes it could just be hormones. But is she overtired, being bullied, struggling at school etc

punishments don’t work (as OP is surely realising!). She needs to connect with her daughter. Especially at this age.

That sounds really hard.

have a look for tuning into kids parent supports in your area. Your pastoral
team at school will know about it.

don’t be too hard on yourself, parenting is tough.

brene brown does some brilliant podcasts too. You might like them x

I said to DH we would never have sworn like this to our parents. However I have called drivers twats when they do something stupid. She pulls me up on this.
I am not calm when she starts shouting but I long to be. I tell get she's going to pay for this rudeness.

Yoh can’t parent when you’re angry. Your brain has literally lost its ability to rationalise. And so has your Dd.

you need to find calm and maybe you tap out and pass it to DH to deal with in the moment and you return when you’re feeling more rational.

I would choose to do nothing.
You let her down. You could have ordered the bracelet and if it were the wrong size likely exchanged it at a Pandora shop at no extra cost.
She was understandably frustrated.
She snapped because it’s late, she’s tired and now is afraid she won’t get the gift you promised. There will be some other excuse.

Do you get punished when you say a fuck off or goddamn this shit now and then? Probably not.

I’d sleep on it and then talk to her in the morning when you’re both rested and calm.

I don’t think punishment is the right way to go.

Don’t listen to people saying their parents would have smacked them or come down like a ton of bricks- that is advising abusive behaviour which will only worsen your relationship with her.