DD13 called us f****g idiots. I'm fuming

[BrieFree]

I have nc'd for this.
DD13 and I have a complicated relationship. I have always struggled to show her affection and the love she deserves. DH fortunately is a great dad.

We have a severely disabled child too for whom we have to really fight for so that she gets support with therapies etc.

Anyway we were trying to get DD13 a smart phone- her first one. DH had chosen a few in our budget but she absolutely hit the roof, saying how ugly and awful they are. We are talking about pretty good Samsung phones.

She started hitting DH, then hitting her own head, then called us twats, told us to f off and said we are f*g idiots.
I told her to get out of the room and she told me to shut up .
I told DH that we are no way getting her a phone for a long time.
I want to give her a screen ban (she has an iPad and a laptop) and ground her for a week.

But tbh, I don't know if that's right. I feel such a rage and yet I blame ourselves for raising dd to be so entitled.

I do struggle in my relationship with her and counselling points to my own difficult relationship with my mum. In fact, this goes back to my grandmother and great grandmother - all had difficult relationships with their mothers.

I hate that I am perpetually angry with her. I don't feel like this towards younger dd. I want to show her love.
What is right to do in this situation?
Only helpful answers please. I don't need criticism as I get how upset dd must be. DH says she picks up on my irritation.

I’d imagine it’s hard to like yourself when you know your own mother doesn’t like you.

I think you are in a really difficult position here.A disabled sibling is obv going to place demands on you .Mums seem to get it in the neck a lot .If you can carve out Saturday mornings for shopping /lunch out or even just going for a walk together this may help.Teenage girls are going through a lot anyway.The phone is neither here nor there really .Maybe as above PP says get her one for Christmas? Mean while try some counselling maybe to help

It is .

Too right you need to change or she'll leave home as soon as she can and cut ties with you

No phone !
Stop.punishing yourself and try to be a loving parent from this day going forward if you are consistent she will see this and her relationship should change for the better ,.ATM she sounds angry and rightfully so !
Just take a step back and be kind she is 13 and super hormonal your the parent pick your battles don't react just step back and be the parent !
If U don't u will end up.losing her u don't have to continue this cycle and blame it on bad relationships with your own mother ! Break the cycle now before it to late.

You do need to ‘calm down’ and take responsibility for your own part in your daughter’s behaviour given your admitted difficulties in your attitude towards her….I think her behaviour is extremely worrying…. She needs love and support ….. not punishment.

I have had years of therapy- my abusive dad and unavailable mum are the main issues.
However nothing seems to help actually deal with these issues, other than identifying them.

Again @BrieFree , you're looking inward and not outward. It's parenting advice you need, not even more navel-gazing.

Contact Social services and ask what they can provide. I'm assuming that you have contacts in the disabilities area who might also be able to connect you with courses about parenting glass children.

This is your problem. I’m sorry because I know life must be so hard for you with a disabled child to look after. But you really must prioritise some time for your 13 year old too.
Can’t your DH look after your younger DD sometimes so you and DD13 can do something together? Even if it’s just a couple of hours trip to the shops or to have a coffee.

Of course at 13 she knows you have to look after her sister and she knows it’s not anyone’s fault, but still I bet she sometimes thinks she wishes it could be all about her for once.

I think when your DC become teens you can start having a bit of a more grown up relationship with them so that can suit mums who feel they aren’t “maternal”. Find a series to watch together, go to the cinema to see a film you both will enjoy rather than some annoying cartoon, bake a cake or make a meal together, take her for a coffee.

Try and let some of the teenage bad behaviour go because it is very normal and she’ll grow out of it.

Absolutely.

I am a pretty tough parent and if mine had spoken like this all hell would have rained down on them. But - yours is a very different situation and you need to bear that in mind. She appears to be very distressed rather than being an annoying brat. Why was DH showing her Samsung phones? Most teens want iphones. That doesn’t mean they should get the latest horrifically expensive model, but can you get her a 15/16, perhaps a reconditioned one? We got DS an iphone 13 a few years ago. He’s 18 and still has it.

You are going to have to try very hard and fake it till you make it. Yes, take her out regularly. Organise weekends so she gets family time with you two when her DSis is in bed. We have an 8 year gap between ours and when DS1 was tween/younger teen we had film night on Saturday and he chose the film. I know another family where the older DC had explosive rages over perceived favouritism towards the younger DC to the point that social services were involved. Their advice was similar - he gets time with parents when the younger DC is in bed. If the younger DC gets up wanting attention she was to be packed off back to bed with a firm reminder that she should be in bed and only the older DC can stay up. Older DC was to be allowed to choose films and board games.

You need to put some strategies in place quickly.

U need to put your relationships back in the box u know about your own child hood break the cycle and stop using it as an excuse your a mother pull your big girl pants up and start doing a good job !
I had neglected childhood mum fucked off dad left I've felt abonened by then
But my kids are my world I wud never ever make them feel like what I did !
I have an amazing relationship with my grown kids because I love and respect them. They have feelings that are valid and u need to see your daughter is struggling material items don't mean shit in the grand scheme of things sorry I'm being harsh my brother took his own life because of our mother she has a bad upbringing she didn't break the cycle

You do realise that therapy is not going to fix this don't you? That the only person that can fix this is you. You're not going to magically walk out of a therapy session and all is going to be fine. You need to put the effort in, you need to put her first - even if you have to fake it. I want to give your DD a huge hug and tell her that she matters.

This is a difficult one, initially i was thinking well i wouldn’t get her a bloody phone! But after reading more i feel genuinely sad for her.
I also know what you are going through ie guilt, anger, frustration.
I have 5 kids, eldest is Autistic, eldest son and then Twins boy/girl and youngest DD.
My twin boy is severely Autistic, cognitive delay, speech delay, toileting delay etc so i feel like sometimes my girl twin has never had our best, and that she could slip through our fingers sometimes and its scary, i feel like sometimes i maybe didn’t get the chance to bond with her as much as the other children because not only is she a twin but one with a severely disabled twin, and i feel like this is what has happened with you and your DD, i try to make sure that me and DD have some alone time every now and then, i put boy twin to bed an hour earlier than her, i also have girl nights where we do our nails and facemasks (during school hols as shes not allowed nail varnish in school) she has also shown an interest in crocheting so i am teaching her, are these things you could do with your DD, find a hobby thats just for you and her that you could bond over and find common ground? Something that makes her feel like its just hers and your special thing, maybe since DH has a good relationship with her he needs to take a step back and deal with other DD and give you two more time together (not saying he doesn’t help with other DD).

Did you miss the bit that this girl is growing up with a mother who doesn’t show her love? Do you not think the anger, the outbursts, the tics, the head hitting are all a result of this? This girl is hurting. OP knows what that feels like from her own childhood, but has unfortunately carried on the pattern.

From professional experience in disability support it sounds as though OP has asked for more support for the disabled child - likely a request for respite or care support etc, so that the parents could focus more on the elder child. Seemingly the social worker didn’t agree there was a problem, even though OP says DD expressed that she wasn’t getting enough attention. It’s likely the refusal was more to do with over stretched resources more than anything else - especially respite. It’s like gold dust.

There's a lot going on here. The argument over the phone is possibly a red herring - it sounds like there are a lot of stressors in your dd's life, one very likely being that she will sense your difficulties in showing her affection towards her. At 13 she is only just beginning to consciously realise and react to these things. It's very likely things will get worse, rather than better, in the next few years. 'Jokes' about hurting herself indicate this is what she truly feels and things could escalate badly - to real self harm, school refusal or poor behaviour there, leading to suspensions etc.

Sort out the phone issue with your DH and accept that it is pretty fundamental for a teen her age to have one. Punishing her will just make things worse. Better to negotiate and show some empathy for why and how she has acted the way she has - you can indicate disapproval without coming down hard on her. Punishment is generally about retribution and control (which is needed when there are dangerous people loose in society) but doesn't help to change and improve behaviour where there are underlying emotional issues and needs.

Right. You see it daily, so your response is to come online and kick a struggling parent whilst she's down, telling her it's "too late" without offering any further supportive/ constructive input.

What exactly do you think you are achieving there?

Presumably your goal in your career is to help children and improve outcomes for struggling families. Do you go up to parents in your day job and tell them it's "too late" for their children without any further advice or comment?

If you actually work in safeguarding then I despair.

This isn’t meant flippantly, but do you have any pets? It’s often easier to model love towards a dog because they’re so sweet, always pleased to see you, like being patted. As you let yourself love one creature, it becomes easier to show love to others. And your daughter needs someone who is pleased to see her when she comes home, and for whom she learns to take responsibility, and on whom she can’t take out her anger. Dogs are a blessing to troubled kids.

When it comes to showing love to her, do you find it hard to: call your daughter by a pet name; look up and smile every time she comes in and say hello love (whatever the affectionate name is); give her hugs; make her her favourite snack; remember things that are important to her (might be parties/sleepovers/friends/make-up/sports); ask how she did on tests/homework and be supportive about the answers - all that sort of thing? If not, could you write out a list of ways you think she’d like to be treated, and ways you can be affectionate like your husband, and actively try to do all of them? It might sound artificial but maybe you need that?

Separately, can you think of 5 times you were angry with her and why - not just what she did (shouted at her sister), but why that triggered you so much (your need to defend weaker child? Expectation for her not to be jealous/demanding?). It might start to give you patterns. Think of a calm solution you could have done instead. Create models for yourself.

I agree with this I'm afraid.

My mum was cold and unloving and cruel at times. I am 55 and won’t forgive her. I did the opposite to my kids and showered them with love. Even in their early 20 years they do not doubt that they are my number one. Until you manage to show your daughter love, all the therapy in the world won’t help your child.

What you are describing sounds like a person who has reached the limit of what she can safely contain. I feel immense sadness for her.

You can’t just pack away childhood neglect and abuse. Ideally it should have been addressed before OP became a parent herself, but sadly some people have no inkling that it will affect their own parenting ability until it’s too late.

Therapy isn’t a magic fix, l agree, but something like CBT for example, could be incredibly helpful because it puts the patient in the driving seat so to speak and forces them to look at the origins of their own behaviours - including avoidant ones - and to recognise triggers. It’s a mix of talking and practical therapies aiming to give the person the skills they need to change those behaviours and break the cycle. In OP’s case it may well help her to gain skills she needs to be the mum she wants to be.

After reading all the above comments my thoughts differ somewhat. I would never reward bad behavior and your daughter at 13 is old enough to know good from unacceptable behaviour. She is old enough to show her parents a modicum of respect, just as I’m sure she shows her teachers.

Her outburst is something of a tantrum, she didn’t get what she wanted so the hitting and swearing started. I understand her disappointment re the phone, but to lash out in this way, I feel, doesn’t deserve reward. When she is calm, set aside time and listen to how she is feeling. This doesn’t mean, given her age & maturity level she will completely understand or completely appreciate your stance, or vice versa, but she will broadly speaking understand the old carrot and the stick metaphor, eg you give us some of what we want and we’ll meet you half or more than half way depending upon your daughter’s behavior.

You admit there are difficulties, a distance between you, that is a great pity as the years are passing, soon she will be gone whether to further education, travel or whatever. Please do what you can to build a bridge, even tho she may be reluctant initially to meet you halfway. If you don’t I feel you may deeply regret this in the years ahead. Good luck.

Well, the one thing this definitely isn’t about is, a phone.

This thread has made me quite sad. I grew up with a mother who made it clear I was unwanted and unloved. My brother and sister had a loving and present mother but I didn’t, and I think it took me until almost fifty to fully come out the other side of that. When I look back I can see how it shaped my life and decisions and struggles over all of that time. Poor girl.

The appearance thing - she wants to be in control, to be right, to be perfect. The anxiety over the phone - same thing. I presume this is something she's wanted for a while and it may have built up into a huge thing in her head where she could get it 'wrong' and then it would be ruined.

Im not saying she's autistic, because i don't know enough about her, but this behaviour really reminds me of my autistic daughter's approach to her appearance and ti high value items. However there are a number of things that can cause similar traits and with the self harming, the comments about killing herself and her very rigid attempts at control and then losing her shit when things don't go as she wants or needs- she sounds like she needs much more targeted help than a school counsellor.

Me too, especially as OP acknowledges she’s never really loved her daughter but went on to have another child anyway, which in my world is just so unbelievably messed up.

And after 13 years of emotional neglect, all she can be bothered to offer is “a couple of hours every other week”.