DD13 called us f****g idiots. I'm fuming

[BrieFree]

I have nc'd for this.
DD13 and I have a complicated relationship. I have always struggled to show her affection and the love she deserves. DH fortunately is a great dad.

We have a severely disabled child too for whom we have to really fight for so that she gets support with therapies etc.

Anyway we were trying to get DD13 a smart phone- her first one. DH had chosen a few in our budget but she absolutely hit the roof, saying how ugly and awful they are. We are talking about pretty good Samsung phones.

She started hitting DH, then hitting her own head, then called us twats, told us to f off and said we are f*g idiots.
I told her to get out of the room and she told me to shut up .
I told DH that we are no way getting her a phone for a long time.
I want to give her a screen ban (she has an iPad and a laptop) and ground her for a week.

But tbh, I don't know if that's right. I feel such a rage and yet I blame ourselves for raising dd to be so entitled.

I do struggle in my relationship with her and counselling points to my own difficult relationship with my mum. In fact, this goes back to my grandmother and great grandmother - all had difficult relationships with their mothers.

I hate that I am perpetually angry with her. I don't feel like this towards younger dd. I want to show her love.
What is right to do in this situation?
Only helpful answers please. I don't need criticism as I get how upset dd must be. DH says she picks up on my irritation.

I would definitely not be buying the phone any time soon

I speak as someone who slapped my 14 yo for using the c-word repeatedly when I had asked her several times not to (I feel terrible about this but it has worked) so I am not a model parent.

Are you not buying her an iPhone because you can’t afford it, or because you don’t agree with smartphones?

If no.1 it’ a case of a conversation and explanation of how this language is unacceptable.

If no.2 I would probably adapt your thinking if it’s making her life this difficult.

On your difficult relationship, I really empathise (see my top comment above.) If you can identify what about her behaviour is difficult and try to explain why you don’t respond well to it might that help.
Are you misinterpreting some of her statements or actions? I’ve found with my daughter sometimes something appears really bad to me but she has a different intent behind it. It’s so hard.

Hitting her own head? Is that a regular occurrence

I’m not excusing what she said or how she behaved at all. Teenagers with siblings with SEN have an extra tough time.

Does she know anyone in a similar situation? Any sibling groups in your area? There’s Sibs

https://www.sibs.org.uk/youngsibs

I know you’re doing a screen ban but when it’s lifted could you or dad show her this?

Have you ever spoken to anyone or had talking therapy about your experiences and feelings?

Are you the same poster who posted about her dd a year ago and a Pandora bracelet? Set up sounds the same.

I’m mot may be worth exploring what therapy is available either on nhs or medical insurance. As you’ve rightly pointed out your difficult generational past between mother and daughter and it does show through interactions. Until you can calm yourself , it will be hard to get on with her as kids pick up our emotions.

I wouldn’t buy that phone but equally I’d be empathetic about her situation m, she might be entitled but I feel these days most kids are. While she may calling you names, she also has huge internal conflicts. Probably with you and your DH but also school life. The best way to do things is talk but that can only be done when you are calm enough and able to control the narrative. This probably goes back to what I suggested at the beginning about some therapy might help, both for you and her.

She has a mother that struggles to show her love. A disabled sibling.

And, unpopular this may be, is 2 years behind her peers in terms of smart phones (every kid i know thay started secondary school has a smart phone. Not necessarily an iPhone or anything fancy, but still a smartphone!).

And she let it all out in one ugly moment of honesty.

Not all kids who have a one off terribly spoiled moment is actually a spoiled entitled child all of the time. Maybe you are showing her super sensible old fogey (in her eyes) phones and she just flipped? She just wants to be like everyone else? Have whats trendy. For once?

Or,.you know her, and this is part of a pattern that youre trying to nip in the bud.

Can you see it at all from her pov? Does that change how you feel?

She does have therapy at school but the therapist said she is very guarded. However we have asked for family therapy sessions but they wanted to do one to one with dd first. I think we will be getting family ones together soon.

She's been doing the self hitting in the last few months. Also tics occasionally.
She said she wanted to kill herself but when we question about this she says, "of course, I won't. I'm just joking." She performs well at school but it one of these highly pressured academies and you can get put in isolation for 48 hours for something like forgetting a p.e bag. She chose this school.

She didn't like any phone that she saw. She thinks she's going to get bullied for having one of the latest Samsung phones. I don't think she has got bullied in general as she is popular and has a strong, tight- knit bunch of friends. They are all lovely girls- we have had them over.
However there is thing she has about looking so perfect and that I don't understand - fake eyelashes, curled hair, lots of make up (allowed ironically in the school).

But yes I am still so angry so need to calm down.

Your kid has a lot on her plate and a mother who apparently doesn’t love her (that’s how she’ll see it). I’m old fashioned about kids’ behaviour BUT was emotionally neglected by my mother and very much not the golden child. I can see why your DD might explode here and think you might need some solo therapy to explore some of this.

Please be very very careful with her and connect the dots here.

My DD at 13 said and did those same things including various tics and coprolalia, which then became a massive breakdown and suicide attempts.

Sounds like she is having to shout very loudly that she’s in a bit of trouble.

I wonder whether she sees not being offered the phone she wants as a symptom of the real problem: that she thinks she is unloved.

I think you need to take a step back and calm down before you decide on consequences.

Her environment has some obvious stressors with a disabled sister and not having a a decent bond with you (I'm not judging you for that, just pointing out that it's a negative for her as well as for you). Sometimes in that situation, an authoritarian approach is really unhelpful. But the disrespect is concerning and something that needs tackling and not ignoring.

While the disrespect isn't great I wouldn't consider a long term or very severe punishment for it in the first instance. What you really need is to build up a mutually respectful family environment and that isn't going to happen if you just come down hard.

Family therapy sounds good. That she is guarded in individual therapy is a bit of a problem, though, and suggests family therapy might not be effective yet. Does she have a fun aunt, or older cousin, or someone she's close to who could give her some attention and a space to talk? Are you getting any therapy for yourself, OP? You're obviously in a not great place with the way you think of DD. Working out why you feel the way you do about her and why she winds you up so much could be a key to cracking the negative relationship you have.

God she’s got so much on her plate. Just get her an iPhone if that’s what she wants. You can get refurbed ones if money is tight. Or ask other people to chip in for it instead of getting her other gifts, or combine a Christmas and birthday gift I don’t know, how much more can an older iPhone be than a new Samsung?

it sounds like she has quite severe issues if she’s hitting her head, talking about killing herself and has tics tbh. In additional to the violent outburst today.
her environment sounds awful, I don’t mean that to criticise you but it is, it’s no wonder she’s acting out. I don’t think you can say it’s because she’s entitled, it sounds like it’s the exact opposite tbh

At the end of the day she’s 13, still a child, and not going to be able to control her emotions as well as an adult yet.

Of course she behaved badly but I’d try and have some empathy here. Give things a couple of days to cool down then talk to her again about the phone.
Giving her a budget and asking her to find some suggestions might be a better plan , if she wants an iPhone she might be perfectly happy with a refurbished one (my DD would prefer refurbished iPhone to new Samsung).

I don’t feel like she needs punishment really, apart from apologising for being rude. Not sure what purpose a punishment would have

She has a very good material life I think.
I'm aware the relationship with me is lacking. DH has a v gd one with her.
I have had years of therapy- my abusive dad and unavailable mum are the main issues.
However nothing seems to help actually deal with these issues, other than identifying them.

So I know she needs help and know I need to change but I don't know how to get rid of this anger.

She feels unloved by you and will be very aware of how much easier you find it to love her sister. She’s lashing out in the only way she knows how. I feel deeply sorry for her. She’s just a kid.

Can you spend some time together, do something she likes?

She needs to apologise for her language and you need to stay calm and regulate your emotions. She will learn to regulate through you and her dad.

I feel quite sorry for her. Don’t think punishment the right approach she’s very young has a disabled sister and feels her mum doesn’t love her. Thats a lot for a 13 year old.

It sounds as though your whole family is going through a lot of stress. That said it sounds as though your dd is having a really hard time, she is a glass child, a mother with inter generational trauma which is impacting parenting and struggling significantly with her own mental health.
As a pp said the phone may just be a symbol of unmet needs. Maybe she would benefit from a want met and to have an iPhone this time.
Longer term the family therapy sounds like an excellent idea. As well as one to one time with her doing things that she likes.
Even teens who have much less reason than your dd can behave badly at times, it isn't uncommon. Before you launch into a series of consequences work on getting yourself really calm first. Then think about the best way forward.

Well, if she is like my DD, who turned out to be autistic and have ADHD, you need to put your anger to one side and find help for her.

CAMHS will unfortunately do fuck all; we have had to do it privately for two kids. Selling my kidney any day now.

D'you think she called you all those names because she wanted your reaction? She knew you'd go mad, so she got what she needed which was some version of "fuck my life, I have the worst parents, they don't care about me, what did I do to deserve this?"

I may be way off beam but we used to get a bit of this around 12-13. For some reason they want to believe their life sucks - maybe because they're embarrassed in front of their mates to be having an actually quite decent and therefore boring, unhip time? - so they act up, probably unconsciously, to get a satisfying chunk of drama in their life.

Bloody annoying for you, but you could just be infuriatingly nice to her! Or just refuse to play along. Go a bit grey, "Let's sort this out another time when we can talk without all this drama."

DH sat down with her and showed her some phones on his laptop. I was sitting away from them. He said she couldn't even say why these phones weren't right.

I am really concerned. My life is complicated with younger dd who takes up all my time when she's not at school or asleep. We aren't entitled to any support - social services even interviewed older dd. It was one of the reasons I asked the social worker to come - as dd13 felt she wasn't getting enough attention. Anyway, SS said no.

We have one relative who could help but only once every few months.

I notice DH, who you say is a great parent, got hit nevertheless, poor guy. Which all adds to the idea that this is drama she needed.

@CountDroitwich Yes that's an interesting point. Any attention is better than no attention. However, I will ask her what she wants to do this Saturday afternoon and take her out.
We have recently had to do a lot to help younger dd due to physical problems and DD13 resented that. She moaned about it a lot. I then got angry, saying, " Can't you see, we have to help her." She then shouted at her non verbal sister. It has been really unpleasant at home.