DD13 called us f****g idiots. I'm fuming

[BrieFree]

I have nc'd for this.
DD13 and I have a complicated relationship. I have always struggled to show her affection and the love she deserves. DH fortunately is a great dad.

We have a severely disabled child too for whom we have to really fight for so that she gets support with therapies etc.

Anyway we were trying to get DD13 a smart phone- her first one. DH had chosen a few in our budget but she absolutely hit the roof, saying how ugly and awful they are. We are talking about pretty good Samsung phones.

She started hitting DH, then hitting her own head, then called us twats, told us to f off and said we are f*g idiots.
I told her to get out of the room and she told me to shut up .
I told DH that we are no way getting her a phone for a long time.
I want to give her a screen ban (she has an iPad and a laptop) and ground her for a week.

But tbh, I don't know if that's right. I feel such a rage and yet I blame ourselves for raising dd to be so entitled.

I do struggle in my relationship with her and counselling points to my own difficult relationship with my mum. In fact, this goes back to my grandmother and great grandmother - all had difficult relationships with their mothers.

I hate that I am perpetually angry with her. I don't feel like this towards younger dd. I want to show her love.
What is right to do in this situation?
Only helpful answers please. I don't need criticism as I get how upset dd must be. DH says she picks up on my irritation.

Dreadful comment. OP has explained the reasons behind the lack of affection and is trying to improve things, and those reasons are psychological and complex from what she’s said. You think that justifies how DD behaved ?

And this

“The kids who need love the most will ask for it in the most unloving ways”

remind myself of this quote frequently in my area of work. As others have pointed out, it’s not about the iPhone, it’s about how she feels, how she recognises her place in the family. Yes her dad may be “great” but seriously do not underestimate the trauma that a 13 year old girl will feel from knowing her mother can’t tolerate her much.

I agree with this. I feel sorry for her, you're only just getting her a phone? Cut her some slack. she's probably getting comments from her mates about not having a phone, she probably feels like she's missing out on stuff because of it...WhatsApp group chats with her mates for a start. If I was your daughter I'd be angry too. You sound like it's quite easy for you to come down hard on your daughter. What about the hitting herself in the argument??? are you not concerned about that? That's so sad.

You're literally saying that you're angry and struggling with your relationship with her, well you've taught her well, she's angry and you're angry with her for that.

She's hitting herself and talking about suicide for a reason, she's struggling to cope.
She's feeling rejected by and trying to fit in at school and her mother can't be the mother she needs. She sees you spending more time, love and patience with her sister, I would be jealous if I were her. She's got additional needs but that's not your older daughter's problem.

It's really quite understandable that she's angry. It's heartbreaking. You say she has a good material life, but this isn't about material things, it's about her not feeling good enough for you. She needs a hug and some tears not a screen ban.
Calm down and talk to her.

Being thirteen was shite back in the day, it's surely harder now. The pressure to fit in, be liked etc. She's thirteen she's struggling to articulate herself, she's emotionally immature as she's thirteen. I would often feel angry at that age, especially with my parents, for no reason other than I was thirteen.

Her relationship with her dad is good, well thank goodness for that, to have an angry mother who can't bond with you is leaving her feeling alone, unloved and empty inside. She's showing you she's struggling, she really doesn't need punishing. She's expressing herself in clumsy way, she's surely allowed to feel the way she does, it's really not only about the phone.

Why would it be focused on fitting in at school, when phones aren’t allowed ? My Niece goes to one of these super strict academies and phones have to be handed in and collected every day. There are bag searches and if phones are found it’s automatic detention/isolation.

OP's reasons are complex and psychological? And the DD's aren't? She's 13, a glass child, lacking love warmth and affection from her mother. Of course her behaviour is explainable. And predictable.

It's not about justification. It's about the 13 yo child's clear unmet needs. She's communicating. Not kindly but she's 13. Not a grown adult who has two children.

I think it justifies her behaviour yes, her daughter is feeling unloved and not good enough. I would be angry if I were her daughter. It's not really about the phone. The daughter is struggling hence hitting herself and making suicidal references.

I wouldn’t get the phone, I wish I had never given DS one (same age).
Due to a foul mouth tirade about parental controls on his phone, he lost his phone and screen privileges for a week…
After the initial vileness of the first 2 days he then actually became the funny and slightly bonkers child he had been before going to secondary school ( which is when he got the phone)
We’ve given back now with a stark warning that next time he’ll lose it for good if he behaves like it again
Our younger one has just started secondary and many of them don’t have smart phones, I would hold out for as long as you can.
Your relationship with her is a different problem entirely and you know that it needs to better.
13 is a tricky age anyway, even without the history you have with her, this will be about more than the phone.

She probably wants an iPhone. Every single teenager i know (i have 4 sons) has one.
She probably knows she won't get one and just can't bring herself to ask for it. My sons still all have iphones. I used them up until around 2020. Now I'm a samsung girlie and won't touch an iPhone but my sons wouldn't have a Samsung.
I would approach it and just ask her if that's what she wants.

Yes. DD can behave however she likes toward a mother who admits she hasn’t shown her sufficient love and affection. The poor girl is probably counting the days until adulthood, at best.

Yeah I don’t give you a pass l had a terrible terrible child hood I didn’t repeat the cycle with my own daughter, it seems you can love your husband, your other child, but speak coldly of your older daughter and give excuses why you don’t treat her with love.

that must be so hard for her, so so hard, and as much as her father tries to recompense for it, it will never make up for it.

i would not punish her, as your urge is to do, and I’d assume it’s not an unusual urge you have, but buy her whay she needs and talk to her, if you can’t let your husband, but stop making excuses for what you’ve done to her as she’s grown up,

This is true. A lot of people just want a sympathetic ear to listen to them which it often is at the beginning. You need to stick with it. It's often not much fun because eventually you have to look at yourself.

I don't know if it will help OP but you might want to read the book Mother Hunger by Kelly McDaniel. It might help you with the lack of mothering you experienced but also help you see things from your daughter's pov who also has 'mother hunger'.

@BrieFree Both your daughter’s and your own feelings of anger are valid. You both have reasons to be angry, and that’s ok. It’s ok to be angry, life can be unfair and difficult, and I think you both have experienced difficulties. The thing is is you are the adult, so that means you set the parameters of your relationship. Do you feel sorry for yourself? I only ask because I felt very sorry for myself for a long time, mainly because of my cold and emotionally distant mother and unavailable fathe, I was also very envious of people with nice parents. I felt unloved and unwhole, almost dirty and definitely ‘other’, and while these feelings weren’t expressed as anger, they were expressed as anxiety.
I am 58 now. It has taken me years to slowly stop feeling so much self pity and start to respect myself, and this is the key @BrieFree. It’s little things, like if I lose my keys, I don’t spiral down a vortex of ‘I’m so shit, why does this always happen to me’ I am kind to myself and say ‘that’s so annoying, but it’s ok’
You need to listen to how you feel @BrieFree the more you listen and accept your feelings without judgement of memories of pain, the easier it will be to accept your daughter’s feelings, including her anger and her sense of unfairness. How can you accept her pain if you can’t accept your own?
Gently does it @BrieFree I wish you courage to look at your feelings and accept them.

Shockingly distasteful comment, this child has grown up feeling unloved by her mother, rejected, and your postion is the op has an excuse?

OP clearly has parenting difficulties that are rooted in her own relationship with her mother and it appears to be an inter generational problem. And she’s trying to address those difficulties.

I am not for one moment dismissing DD’s feelings but blaming OP as though the problem is that she doesn’t want a relationship with her child isn’t helpful - and it’s clearly not the case. It’s the equivalent of telling someone with mental health issues to pull themselves together.

I’d expect the adult who chose to be a parent to start behaving like one to BOTH their children.
A adult’s baggage is theirs to carry or discard… expecting her 13 year old to carry it for her without complaint because poor mummy has a complex psychology is bullshit.

This.

Why did you even have kids in the first place if you're so unmaternal?

Helpful @electrichabanero

I agree with this. Poor girl - OP admits she isn’t a good or loving parent to her. She is crying out for love and help here.

And that right there is the problem. Seeing OP’s difficulties as an excuse instead of a reason. Would you tell someone with mental health problems to pull themselves together ? Of course you wouldn’t, but some posters here have chosen to ignore OP’s stated difficulties and are effectively telling her it’s her fault. Both mother and daughter need help and support here - apportioning blame isn’t going to solve anything.

From someone who didn’t feel liked as a child this is excellent advice.
I try to do the same with my kids- sometimes you end up finding a new “thing” you both like. I quite look forward to F1 race day now so I can enjoy it with DS.

At 13 my dd and all her friends have had phones for years now. Ask her to apologise then get her the one she wants.