AIBU to not leave the shop when my toddler is having a tantrum?

[Sunshine231]

What is the appropriate response to your toddler having a full blown tantrum in a shop or other public place? I always stay and continue my shopping, albeit at speed but the looks I get from other shoppers tell me that maybe IABU and I’m supposed to abandon my trolley / basket and take said child immediately out of the store. I asked a friend and she also said she would leave straight away.

The reason I don’t do that is because a) my toddler has tantrums daily at random and I’d never get anything done if I just stopped it every time they started; b) I’m usually in the shop because we really need something, that need doesn’t go away so I’d have to return to the shop later anyway; and c) taking the child out of the shop does not magically end the tantrum and therefore help the child emotionally, they will continue until they are done whether I’m in a shop or not, so I don’t feel I’m “harming” the child by continuing what we are doing (btw I will do the whole script of I can see you’re upset, you wanted XYZ and you couldn’t have it, it’s ok to be upset etc., suggest “blowing bubbles” or blowing out candles to model deep breaths and also periodically offer cuddles while continuing getting what we need though I can’t say it really helps and sometimes seems to make it worse even).

For context an example of this was at the weekend, I told my older child we could go buy snacks for a movie night. Toddler saw a huge car thing in the shop they wanted, I said no. Tantrum immediately ensued. They are quite loud and once the tantrum starts literally anything I say to them will make the screaming more intense. I carried on getting the snacks because leaving at that point would have meant disappointment for the older child and them potentially thinking the toddler was to blame. I really don’t want them to resent each other. But I got so many people looking at me in horror as if I was being abusive and it made me think maybe I’m doing the wrong thing?

Just curious what others perspectives are on this?

I used to think like this but a lot of the time you can't do anything but still need to get food to feed them

Wow, you really are not a nice person

Find the quote where I said my child only had 2 or 3 tantrums - "a handful of memorable tantrums" is not 2 or 3 tantrums, for starters the totally unrealiable source that is google states a handful when used metaphorically is 3-10, yes my DD only had 3-10 memorable tantrums, one at home (exH WFH on a work call when we returned from playgroup, I'd just stopped breastfeeding so didn't have a quick fix, shit hit the fan!!), a few out and about either when I, in hindsight, made errors of judgement or when DD was coming down with a bug and it was her first 'symptom'. The rest were just neither here nor there because they were age approriate behaviour within a safe environment that were easily managed, therefore not memorable.

Where did I say I barely left the house with her? - "(she could only managed one organised activity a day). Friends used to plan playdates at cafes after playgroup/ wraparound lunch club/pre-school and then wonder why their kids had massive meltdowns and the whole experiences was a negative one, I'd just make my excuses and get DD home because I knew what would happen if I took her, thus no tantrum!"
One organised activity a day = up to 7 a week!
The day I described where I avoided a playdate was when as a 3 year old she had already been in playgroup 9-1130, lunch club 1130-1230 and preschool 1230-1430. 6 hours out of the house (yes that included getting to and from school) is not "barely leaving the house, at any age let alone a 3 yo.

And no, I still don't think tantruming daily is typical (there, we don't need to use the word 'normal' if it is hurty), the evidence backs this. Why your child is doing it could be an early sign of neurodiversity, or it could be your parenting. Everything I have read in this thread suggests to me the later.

For an academic you seem to find both quoting and statistics challenging!

I would do what you can, there's no right or wrong answer. I would definitely not be giving them snacks to entertain them though, they just need to grin and bear it and eventually will grow out of it.

Most people looking at you are probably sympathetic, I know I am. Yes, some kids have a particularly irritating screech when they tantrum but I wouldn't expect a parent to leave the shop. My niece used to throw herself on the floor of the shop while having a tantrum. I would let her get in with it and then pick her up and move her to the next aisle if she hadn't finished by the time I had what I needed. It is a natural part of child development and people need to get over themselves. It isn't like it is a restaurant where people are paying for an experience.

Lol, this thread. Do you need a phd to comment? I have one too, but I don't think it'll help you in this situation XD

What I found very effective is the countdown technique. Tell kid to stop making noise, then start counting down from 5. If you reach zero then something kid doesn't want happens. Might not work for a full blown tantrum but you can practice on other commands first for it to work. There actually IS a lot of research on this, works on teens and even yourself (something about there not being enough time for the brain to procrastinate). Oh, and forget "gentle parenting", you don't need to be as bad as your parents, but No is No, not "blah blah blah blah blah blah blah".

I think you’re the one who finds statistics challenging (and is also not a nice person for that matter). I will help you. 12% of 2 year olds in that one study (which is riddled with limitations btw) had tantrums every day. There was no statistically significant difference between the % of 2 year olds who had tantrums every day and those who had them multiple times per week, or never in the last month. That means the frequency of 2 year olds appearing in any of those tantrum categories was statistically THE SAME. Therefore based on the study which you say is high quality evidence, daily tantrums were no more abnormal or atypical than no tantrums or tantrums multiple times per week. Daily tantrums were therefore within the range of normal or typical as I previously stated.

Also the article itself states that there are numerous limitations to the study including the fact they did not use a standardised measure for tantrum behaviour. It was self report by parents which prone to bias including under reporting (like how you have favourably reported your own child’s behaviour) and the fact that definitions of what constitutes a tantrum will vary widely between parents. They also state the study population may not have been representative of the general population as they did not gather any information on participant demographics.

The fact you have used a poor quality study to back up your own opinion and then misinterpreted the study results just shows your level of intelligence. The body of evidence, including the one poor quality study you’ve cited, DEFINITELY does not show that daily tantrums is not typical. Anyone with basic grasp of statistics could see that from reading the article.

Your responses are vastly more sensible than the one know-it-all replying, who very definitely does not have a PhD (but does have a perfect emotionally mature child who only had 3-10 tantrums EVER), so maybe a PhD helps 😅 you know like you don’t have to be mad to work here…

https://acamh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-7610.2012.02595.x

1490 kids 8.6% daily tantrums!

Good try. Except none of the kids in this study were aged 2. They were preschoolers aged 3 to 5. As you’ll know from the “gold standard” study you previously cited, tantrum frequency drops of a cliff after age 3, so this new paper you’ve come up with is totally irrelevant to a discussion on tantrum frequency in 2 year olds.

This is all getting a bit silly now with the studies arguments. And also when you say how much time do people have to go in and out of shops multiple times, but people aren't suggesting doing it multiple times, they are suggesting doing it once.
Some people have offered some good tactics to try which is great and some may sound worth a go to you.
I recommend being more organised so impromptu shopping trips aren't needed, until she's a bit older.
And then it's a case of judgement call on a case by case basis. Of course you aren't damaging your child to continue shopping, however depending on the extent of it you may be being incredibly anti social.

It’s great that so many people are so highly organised they never have to nip to the shops. I’m not perfect and I do occasionally forget things. With my abnormal out of control kids it’s a wonder I even manage to function at all… As I previously stated, it’s maybe 1 or 2 times per month and my child doesn’t have a tantrum on every single shopping trip. And it’s usually literally a quick nip in and out.

I personally do think it’s excessive to go outside and wait for the tantrum to subside, in a car park with another child. Rather than just quickly finishing shopping. Grabbing snacks takes 5 mins tops. The waiting outside part could be longer than the whole shopping trip needed to be. But if that’s the done thing to avoid being incredibly antisocial then consider me told 🤷‍♀️

Im not incredibly organised and I don't have perfectly behaved children by any stretch of the imagination.
My point was when my children were deep in tantrum stage then I prioritised being super organised to avoid this scenario as I hated it.
I bought wipes and nappies and toilet paper and anything that might be an actual emergency in bulk with subscribe and save on amazon. Amazon do next day delivery as well.
You are being quite defensive. You asked for opinions and they are quite split between people who would continue shopping and those who would remove the child.
Like I say it's a case by case assessment for me, I've definitely done the carry them out and abandon shopping thing and I've definitely rushed with a fussing child thing it just depends on degree of tantrum.
You don't seem to be appreciating anyone suggesting any alternative to what you are currently doing though.

But I’m literally saying I do the same as you though? I try to order online where I can. Not everyone is privileged enough to afford bulk ordering, some of us live pay check to pay check.

And I’ve clearly said I have left places on occasions it felt right such as in a post office queue when the thing I was in there for was purely for myself. And on other occasions in a larger shop which was not too busy, I have rushed to finish my shopping and get out quickly.

I also can’t see where I’ve indicated that I don’t think it’s great to prioritise being super organised. Obviously that’s great. I just don’t always manage it. I would say overall opinions lean towards leaving the shop to avoid being antisocial, my initial concern was about emotional harm to my own child rather than other shoppers but that aspect is duly noted now.

Honestly, 75% of the looks will be from other parents sympathising with you in a 'been there done that, glad I'm past that stage' way.

The other 25% are either child free or older parents who probably brought their kids up in fear of having their arse skelped thinking parenting was better in their day 🙄 and who cares what they think!

If kid is still up on their feet, I would just keep shopping and ignore them. Laying in the floor screaming is different and you do need to apply the surfboard method and carry thrm out the shop as the floor isn't a safe place for them or other shoppers.

You're fine OP.
It is totally normal behaviour to take your child to a shop at any age.
Most people are somewhat thrown if they literally can't go out because of illness or being entirely w/o transport. Most of us are not so organised that we never need to leave our homes with our difficult children. We get on with it.

No way would I have paid however much delivery (rural) to get an emergency pack of wipes instead of taking the little beast with me and just doing what I needed to do.

Maybe this isn’t helping. Like your toddler only goes boring places where there’s nothing in it for them. If you go fun places, where they want to stay, but get removed for tantrumming they might connect that their behaviour results in the loss of something pleasurable

I’ve always carried on. Like you OP, I’m a single mum and when mine were little there were a couple of times my son had tantrums in shops.
First one we’d just walked into Tescos and he was throwing a fit in his buggy because he wanted to go to M&S instead! I remember a man coming up to him in the buggy, wagging his finger and telling him to be quiet.
The other time we were in Sainsbury’s at the checkout, he was a little older around 3 (no buggy and lots of bags😩), and I made the grave mistake of scanning the first item instead of getting him to do it. He completely lost his shit. 2 of the lovely workers came, both women, reset the system so we could start again and he could do it. Took a while for him to calm down as once he would get in those states he would stay upset for a bit, I ended up crying too and one of the staff hugged me bless her.
Because I’ve been there myself I’d never judge or think you should leave the shop. A toddler screaming isn’t the be all and end all, and I wouldn’t class supermarkets as a peaceful place anyway, however restaurants etc i absolutely would leave.

I think you misread, I said I don’t take them boring places in general. I absolutely would remove him from softplay if he was having a tantrum. But that’s because I see that as a natural consequence to his behaviour. But I don’t see leaving a shop as a consequence as he likely didn’t want to be there in the first place. Sadly (as I would love an excuse to leave softplay early), I can’t think of a time this has happened. He doesn’t tend to tantrum in places he’s having fun 🤷‍♀️

Depends on the impact on other shoppers. If it’s just loud, it doesn’t matter. If they’re throwing themselves about on the floor, refusing to get, running about etc (and therefore causing an obstruction for other shoppers), you should really take them out.

Oh I absolutely agree, if it was dangerous either for himself or other people I would have definitely taken him out. I do not let him run around shops. He is tall for his age (he was always on the 97th percentile and his dad is 6ft5) and I cannot carry him easily, even when he’s not thrashing about, so it would be difficult to keep him safe if I didn’t strap him into a trolley or a pushchair

Leave the shop! Noone wants to hear a screaming toddler in a supermarket

I just don't take them because it's awful. If I need to go to the shop I just go on the way to collecting them from childcare afterwork, or go on my lunch break.

Some of these replies are awful, so judgemental and sniffy. Fuck sake, you’re not a shit mum, op, not sure why so many have to stick the boot in and act so superior. I’d just carry on to be honest, it might annoy other people a bit but it’s not for hours and such is the risk of being out and about around people, some might be loud or annoying or whatever.

I had one that had terrible tantrum's, normally because he couldn’t have his own way. I never left the shop, I would just stand and wait until it was over making sure he never got his own way. Sometimes children will embarrass you, it’s all part of the course. If I see a mum standing waiting while her child is having a tantrum I think good on ya mum don’t give in because it’s the easy quicker option.

I think you have to anticipate that at least for the moment it is not ideal to be taking them into shops with items they will want often.

So that might mean stocking up on some snacks to keep at the back of the cupboard for movie night, trying to go without them (eg could they stay with dad or can you go after work?), Order to pick up so you don’t need to go in and maybe sometimes going without or making do with what’s at home?

then employing the avoid going when tired//hungry, if you must go in avoid the aisles with toys/things they will want, explaining before you go in that you are only getting milk or whatever.