How to handle a 12-year-old refusing to accept a ‘NO’?

[YellowMellow99]

I’m looking for some advice please. TIA for your help and please be kind. 🙏🏼
Our 12.5 year old DD latched on to the idea of going to an activity this summer that DH (her father) and I deemed age inappropriate. We explained this to her and said no. We said she can choose another activity.
She’s completely refusing to take no for an answer and has been really upset, angry, uncooperative and argumentative.
It’s tempting to give in to her but that’s what DH used to do and look where that got us!
DD is very smart and (like any tween/teen her age) can be quite manipulative to get her way. She refuses to help with anything, unpack her things (we just moved house a month ago), she’s also not looking after her pets. She says she’d do more if we take her to this event but we already said no and explained why. DH and I have a united front. DD is generally lazy as DH used to just do stuff for her and she soon learned that she should ‘just enjoy being a child’. DH came to realise that this was not a good idea and we are trying to change things and get DD take on more responsibilities (at least tidy up after herself and look after some of her pets) but she’s just very demanding, doesn’t do things unless she gets something out of it, and she can be uncooperative and difficult.
I think DH doing everything for her made her quite spoiled and she’s our only child so that probably didn’t help either.
I’m giving all this as a background information.
She said she’ll be miserable and upset while summer and not talk to us, unless we take her to the event.
I had physically and emotionally abusive parents and I always wanted to do my best for my child. She knows I’m always here and she can talk to me any time. DH and I both love her so much.
I’m looking for advice on how to deal with this and how to help her through it. We already explained to her why we said no, she’s not accepting, and we also explained it to her that in life sometimes you just don’t get what you want and you need to be okay with that and that’s what resilience is. I think she might be influenced by others too. She is not allowed on SM and only has WhatsApp for the last month or so.
Thank you!

Even if they are wrong, it does seem that she needs to finally learn that no means no so I wouldn't be giving in no matter what.

You’ve said no. End of.
each and every threat,sulk,attempted manipulation and strop should be getting its own individual extra punishment at this stage. Stop being so bloody wet and parent your child before it’s too late!

she holds none of the cards. But the way she’s been parented has clearly given her the idea that continued harassment and utterly vile behaviour is going to win her what she wants.

I disagree completely. Parents being prepared to accept they are wrong is a much better lesson than them sticking to their guns even when wrong.

I'd usually agree but in this case, it involves a 12 year old who can't take no as an answer. I think right now, her learning that lesson is the priority.

Yes to this.

Do not let the pets suffer. If they're hers and it was understood she has to care for them, she needs to be sat down and told she cares for them or they are rehomed. Tell her it is absolutely disgusting and immensely disappointing that she would take out her anger on defenseless creatures and willfully mistreat them.

She needs to hear “No” more often.

Your DD sounds like mine. What DP and I do is sit her down and talk her through what the consequences of her bad behaviour will be if she continues.

She loses all screens for a time we determine and explain her behaviour is exactly the wrong way to ever get what she wants.

We will also stop friends coming over or dropping her to friends too.

These are the big guns for her.

We follow through with the punishments but do give her the option to earn privileges back.

Being consistent and being in unity with your partner is the only way forward.

You explain that you won’t be discussing it again and that the final answer is no. Every time it’s brought up you say ‘the answer is no, move on now please’.
Keep a chart of how often she takes care of the pets and rehome them if she doesn’t hold up her end of the bargain. My mum did this with me and my sister when we were that age because we didn’t take care of our much-requested pets. It was fine and we weren’t traumatised and learnt an important lesson.
Any bad behaviour results in consequences like removal of her phone.

You have to take control and actually parent her or you’re in for trouble over the next few years. I’ve taught middle school my whole career, I know this age group. They need boundaries and consistency from their parents.

I despair.

OP, you and your DH sound soft as fuck I’m afraid.
You’ve been give some excellent advice and strategies by previous posters, please for the love of god take some of it on board before you produce an entitled, feckless young adult

She's being a brat. But she's 12.

But I don't think you've told us the activity yet? You might also need to reconsider things going forward after she's learnt this lesson.

Your DD needs to learn some consequences. Maybe start with the unpacking rather than the pets. Give her a deadline - by Saturday you want xyz unpacked and put away. If it hasn't been done then those items go to the charity shop. However, if you're going to give ultimatums, you have to be prepared to follow through, not give in to her crying and manipulation.

Next time she mentions the activity, tell her if it's brought up one more time she'll be grounded and not allowed to see friends for a week (or however long you deem suitable). You've got to toughen up OP and not give in. Once you bow down to her, you've lost.

Oh my goodness.

She’s a spoilt brat quite honestly. You sound like lovely people but your passiveness has created an entitled brat.

Pets - look after them or they are rehomed. Last in first out, look after the hamster or it goes. Then rabbits.
‘I will never talk to you again’ - we are only going to rehome them if you don’t care for them. It’s totally your choice what you do with that, you’ll only have yourself to blame if they go.
She will absolutely talk to you again.

Activity - we have said no and will not be discussing it further.
‘but, but…’ - be quiet. If you mention it again then you will lose your phone for two days. AND FOLLOW THROUGH.

Her being upset with this is a her problem, it is of her own making and is not for you to solve.

Be firm. You will be doing her a kindness in the long run. And yourselves!

I see you haven't said what the activity is, on the grounds that you and your DH decision should be the end of it. That's maybe right from the perspective of your family but you have asked the Internet. And we want to know is it really age inappropriate, or is your decision inappropriate? Unless you tell us the activity is, our views are pretty meaningless.

As someone whose child is incredibly involved and caring of her pets, doing all the care of one and a lot of the care of the other…

Dogs and cats make terrible child pets. Great family pets but terrible child pets. Bunnies aren’t entry level pets either and should always have been your responsibility. Hamsters can be cared for by a responsible child. Yours isn’t.

I suspect you’ve been overcompensating for your terrible childhood with a lack of solid parenting skills. Take courses, read books, get better. Both of you. And mean it when you give no as an answer. And find proper consequences and stick to them. More ‘if you won’t care for Goldie, Goldie deserves a good home’ and ‘if you choose not to do the care it’s you choosing for Goldie to move, not us. It is sad, but Goldie needs care’. And less inconsistent, emotionally incompetent, low boundary stuff.

“That’s fine DD. It’ll be a quiet summer if you don’t talk to us.”

Then add

”but your behaviour and inability to unpack and look after your pets alongside your temper tantrum only proving to your dad and I you are not mature enough for <event>”.

If the activity is "want to go to Reading / Leeds Festival with mates for the day" then you are totally right.

If it's "wants to go to cinema in town with a friend" then that's probably OTT (unless friend is dodgy).

When my dc were in their peak nagging phase, and I was seconds away from capitulating, I said “you can keep asking me but the answer will still no”. They stopped, shrugged and went off to do something else.

I have no idea how I said it, I think I was channelling my grandma or something in that moment because what I opened my mouth to say was “fine! fine! just do whatever you want”. I didn’t even think I sounded convincing, but it convinced them.

I only had to use that line on a couple more occasions and they started to realise that no meant no.

Which brought me to a different dilemma because now I had to think carefully before saying no. Sometimes we knee-jerk and we should be able to roll back if we have to. It’s much harder to do that if they haven’t experienced firm boundaries before though.

Is it really age inappropriate or are you maybe not keeping up? Things change faster than feels comfortable into the teen years and it’s just not effective to be the unreasonably restrictive parent. Boundaries are important of course but they should be reasonable too.

If you feel that this maybe is a situation you should in fact roll back on, create a fire break. Tell her that her behaviour is making you dig your heels in, and that if she was respectful and accepted your authority with good grace, you’d discuss it with her father. Then wait a few days (I’m still considering. Please don’t bring it up again) before delivering the verdict, But don’t do that unless you are going to change your mind. Just repeat “you can keep asking me but the answer will still no” calmly like a zen mantra.

The pets thing is a different issue. She’s 12. They’re not known at that age for their dedication and reliability. Give her chores that aren’t time sensitive, or add a relevant time consequence (no screens until the litter tray is emptied) and oversee it.

But what if she couldn't go because - say, Mum couldn't drive her there? Or the timings coincided with something else? I think the fact her parents have decided it is 'age inappropriate' is a red herring. There could be any one of a hundred reasons why she can't go. She needs to learn that no means no and not stamp about as though being unpleasant is going to change anyone's mind.

Bunnies and hamster need to go . Don’t be those wet parents who can’t enforce a boundary. And say ‘DD was neglecting them’ if anyone asks or if she keeps going on about it .
our friends did this with a dog the kids begged for then did nothing with and honestly it was the best thing that happens those kids and made my life very easy when we got our dog as my kids saw the consequences of their friends not pulling their weight .

What is the activity ? But you have said no so no means no

if you back track she will know you will keep back tracking if she moans

to not look after pets is a disgrace

and why I would never get small pets even if they beg as often don’t look after

a friends dd begged for a gp. Looked after it for maybe 3mths then lost interest so now mummy does it

What a joke.

My only advice: consequences.

She is very manipulative and clearly has reason to believe her manipulation tactics work.

You need to be firm and not let yourself be controlled by a child.

Of course she will talk to you again.

You need to show her who is in charge before it's too late and she takes her sense of entitlement out into her other relationships. She won't be a pleasant person if she doesnt learn some important lessons fast.

She probably knows MN well enough to understand that telling us will trigger a 10 page debate about the activity instead of the advice she's actually looking for. There's so many posters, like you, just gagging to find out so you can start derailing, I don't blame her at all!

I agree with you and we have been giving her consequences for years. We have also explained to her that consequences are not the same as punishment. She has the chance to make the right choice. Yet she still blames us and plays up every time a consequence is enforced. I do tell her that I gave her a fair warning and she had the chance to make the right decision, which is always the case, but she’ll still try to talk her way out of it.

Not in response to your post but just in general I wanted to add that she’s not ‘using the pet care to blackmail us’ but she’s not been looking after the pets for ages. We keep asking her/telling her and she says ‘later’ and doesn’t do it.
She is very stubborn and strong willed but also on the waiting list for ADHD, just saying it as an explanation not an excuse (I’ve ADHD too, was diagnosed last year)

I don’t think she’s being deliberately cruel, she just thinks that DH and I will make sure the pets are okay anyway so it’s not the end of the world if she doesn’t do it, but we’d like her to learn to be responsible and she wanted the pets so much but doesn’t do the responsibility. 😣

Re the event, it is adult themed.

Thank you and you’re exactly right!

I think the point is that DH and I deemed it inappropriate. DD is not taking no for an answer and uses emotional blackmail to get what she wants. We want her to learn that in life sometimes you get a ‘no’ and you might not agree with that but you need to be able to move on and not let it affect your life.

Even if it was Thorpe Park (it is not) and us parents deemed it not okay, she needs to be okay with the answer being no and not have a week long (month long) meltdown.