Support for a mum of a late potty trainer

[DearDog96]

Hi all,

DD is 4 and is showing no signs of being ready to train yet which is concerning me as she’s due to be starting school in September. We’ve had a few failed attempts in the past, and she just doesn’t seem to be getting the hang of knowing when she needs to go. The doctors and HV have been supportive and keep giving me all these different tactics to try but to no avail and since I’ve recently had another baby we’ve resorted back to nappies again.

Please don’t come for me, I know she’s late to be trained! Just looking for some support, tips, and to know I’m not the only one still having to change a 4 year old x

Sure

And if your kids are teens now, training at just turned 2 really wasn’t “the norm”. My kids are 20 and 17 and it certainly wasn’t “the norm” to be fully toilet trained immediately after the 2nd birthday.

No, without going into details, they can and have been dry. We are supporting them and family but it doesn’t mean there aren’t days when it just feel really hard.

Oh okay. Just seemed unusual. As a parent of a child who might not be trained properly due to possible autism we do feel guilty and bad for inflicting more work on you.

Yeah I don’t remember that either. About 2.5years old to be relatively dry during the day you were doing well and 3 night trained. That was why we were panicking at 3 when my child refused to potty train. We weren’t worried at 2.

Mine are late 20’s - it was absolutely the norm that they were potty trained around 2 - 2.5. I went to loads of NCT meet ups, toddler groups etc. They were all, bar one child with Downs Syndrome, potty trained by 2.5. Most got it in a weekend, we made sure not to do any long trips for the first few weeks, and they didn’t have any accidents. This was everyone’s experience.

I went to a Penelope Leach talk when mine were babies - someone asked about potty training and at the end of her answer she very reassuringly said ‘don’t worry - you don’t hear of children starting school in nappies!’

Personally I think parenting has gone too child-focussed. Lack of boundaries generally, no pushing them beyond their comfort zones, monitoring what they do at all times. Raises kids with no resilience or self-confidence or belief that they can tackle new things.

Please don’t feel guilty, even from an early age if things aren’t adding up or there are some early signs of a need then that’s completely different to a parent saying their child just would rather not try.

But again as I said before , I was a child of the early 80s and can definitely remember children wetting themselves in class in reception so not every child was fully trained by the time they started school. I just asked my mum when I was potty trained and she said somewhere around 2 and a half - certainly not 2. I do think there is a degree of misremembering of that time. Bit like people saying every baby slept through at that time as it was all about the baby discipline in those days and then my mil retails to me how awful my DH was and how he just screamed all the time and wouldn’t sleep.

There’s a difference between the occasional accident in reception (yes I remember this - but it was occasional and not reflective of a child who wasn’t fully trained) because of all the distraction and business of a new environment, and still needing nappies.

How much time does your daughter spend with other children her own age? If I understood correctly, she hasn't been to nursery or preschool at all?

I wonder if that could be part of the key. From around the age of three, children usually really enjoy spending time with other kids, and they pick up all sorts of ideas from each other (both good and bad! 😄). Seeing for herself that other children her age aren't wearing nappies might have more of an impact than anything an adult says.
It would probably also be helpful for her to spend a fair amount of time with children her own age before starting school.

Just a thought. Good luck—I hope you find something that works!

You sound very sure it’s always that easy for everyone if you just do as you did 🙄

The only different between the child who had accidents in class and a child needing nappies is the nappies themselves. There is nothing stopping an un potty trained child just being sent into school in pants and having the ‘occasional accident’. Most children at that age aren’t weeing every 2 seconds.

just remember that potty training is not an overnight thing and it can actually take months for some children. My second seemed to get it right away and then, I’m not joking, she pooed herself every day for a good four months, but nursery agreed we should pursue keeping the nappies off. Lots of children still have the occasional accident once they start reception but we all start somewhere

2 staff isn’t necessary as per BBUK guidance, if a child is having multiple accidents a day the school SENCO should be applying for an IPRA to the LA for them to fund the staffing needed to support that child, or an EHCP if that’s more appropriate.
LA’s are letting schools suffer and struggle and it’s not on! It’s no wonder there is a retention crisis in teaching.

Christ - let’s be honest now. A NT child at 4 should be potty trained. Let’s not beat about the bush. I had 2 children potty trained at 2 1/2. Both me and my husband work full time. No pissing (no pun intended) about. Kids have to learn. It’s not a light hearted matter, it’s not a “let’s do it when they’re ready” mentality either.
If you have to bribe, you bribe. “No you can’t go on the iPad / watch TV / have your favourite toys out / have those sweets, until you are learning to use the toilet”.

That’s fair enough, but it isn’t true that is has to be 2 staff members was my point.

What do you think nursery staff do! Nurseries up and down the country have sole staff members changing children as old as 4 every day.

No more nappies or pull ups ( night is different)
persevere no matter how difficult.
The new baby probably set her back and by being back in nappies she could still be your baby again in her mind.
Yea the school will be supportive ( to your face) but there is no reason a neurotypical child with no medical issues should start school in nappies- other children will notice and it may become embarrassing for your child and will make it hard for school staff when it isn’t necessary.
last time you gave in and she got what she wanted she is old enough to understand now ( I have worked children of her age for nearly 30 years)
She needs to know it’s non negotiable- and she won’t be going back in them
no point making it harder work for everyone and
potentially embarrassing for her
just persevere- you have all summer.

It's different for my son as he has SEND but they do change him at school and it is in the guidelines to not call parents in to change children. He also has an intimate care plan with 2 named TA's and they are the only two people who change him. Due to his medical needs, he is frequently changed at school.

Of course, hopefully you can crack it before she starts and I would try your very best to do that but if not, at least you have warned the school and they sound very supportive. My son's school is very supportive too and it makes all the difference.

Good luck!

I think one of the issues that is often overlooked is that back in the day most children started reception as “rising 5s” ie they started school at the beginning of the term in which they turned 5. A lot older than these barely turned four year olds who start school now.

And as others have said, there was far more incentive to get children out of nappies because Terry nappies were hard work. So parents were a lot more proactive about potty training, in my daughters day as soon as the children were able to sit comfortably on a potty they were plonked on it at various times of the day so they learned to associate weeing and pooing in the potty from an early age. I know this approach raises eyebrows and cries of “ they might not be ready!” “ they won’t understand” “it will all be by chance not design”. But it worked. And even saving a handful or two of wet or dirty nappies in a week was a blessing.

When I talk about accidents I meant one or two a week! Not several every day which a non-trained child would do. The latter was unheard of in NT children of reception age.

This child also hasn’t been to nursery, and may well struggle socially as a result.

Autism is around 21% diagnosed before age 5 and ADHD is around 10%. If your child’s assessment is with the NHS you may well find they decide to “watch and wait” and it may take many, many years before they give a diagnosis.

my first was trained age 2. no bother, took about a fortnight. easy peasy. second just wouldnt entertain it until he was 4 despite trying frequently from age 2. but he was sorted for school. stubborn bugger all round that one! but later diagnosed with autism. my youngest is a late august baby and he was like his brother and just would not do it at all. as he headed towards his 4th birthday and school i was getting really worried about it. he was dry at night but just would not part with his fluffy nappies in the day. i used cloth nappies with all 3. i had meetings with school in advance who weren’t hugely helpful, i had the health visitor involved who couldn’t suggest anything different for me to try, i got a paediatric continence nurse involved, again nothing worked. his taster day at school he peed on the teacher when he sat on her knee. i was mortified but she was lovely and said theres a reason she always wore patterned dresses for work. she didn’t try and make me feel like a failure (unlike the head who enjoyed talking to everyone like they were scum no matter what your background).
minor success over the holidays, sent to school in pants on the first day and he had one accident on day one when i went up and changed him (i’d booked annual leave for the first week just in case). after that i don’t remember any other incidents. it just seemed to click that he had to leave the fun of the classroom if he wet himself. he has since been diagnosed with adhd.
people can judge and i felt very judged. i was a children’s healthcare professional absolutely dedicated to getting them school ready but it didn’t go according to the plan that is expected. being diagnosed years later with neurodiversity may or may not have played a part. i don’t know.
i work with families who don’t bother to try at all, their children were weaned sucking out of pouches and have never had a nursery rhyme sang to them or sat with a book or used cutlery. they have spent most of their early years in a pushchair or a cot.
there is a difference between late starters and neglect.

A few failed attempts suggest stop start - it takes effort time consistency you can’t keep trying different tactics you have to just stick with one and yes lots of carpet cleaner.
you just need to batten down the hatches and dedicate all day every day to this and if that means not leaving the house so be it. Ditch the potty and just go straight to using the toilet - at her age she’d be far too big for a potty anyway I’d think. I’d be getting her to change herself TBH. You cleaning her up the minute she has an accident is showing her how uncomfortable being wet or dirty is

I have to say schools are always “supportive” - what else can they say?! But realistically it’s incredibly inconvenient and disruptive to be changing children who aren’t toilet trained at that age in a school environment (ie not a nursery) purely because of the parents and not due to a medical issue

I should know - i happen to have a child who experiences incontinence issues both bowel and bladder from a serious medical injury and yes she is teased about accidents and has become very self conscious about it

Defo try the reverse psychology approach. I tried twice with potty training and she was having none of it, I said that’s fine we need a break from this. after few days she came in one morning and said I don’t like nappy , ripped it off and never wore one again 🫠