Support for a mum of a late potty trainer

[DearDog96]

Hi all,

DD is 4 and is showing no signs of being ready to train yet which is concerning me as she’s due to be starting school in September. We’ve had a few failed attempts in the past, and she just doesn’t seem to be getting the hang of knowing when she needs to go. The doctors and HV have been supportive and keep giving me all these different tactics to try but to no avail and since I’ve recently had another baby we’ve resorted back to nappies again.

Please don’t come for me, I know she’s late to be trained! Just looking for some support, tips, and to know I’m not the only one still having to change a 4 year old x

What happens after she’s had an accident?
it has to start becoming an real inconvenience for her to not use the toilet, at 4 she can be doing a lot of the work involved in cleaning herself with just you there to help.

My son didn't potty train until just after 3 years old as he just wouldn't do anything on a potty. Eventually I just went for it one day, no nappy but trousers on. Did lots of tries but it didn't start to click with him until he'd had a few uncomfortable accidents, he found them very upsetting and then started managing to wee on the potty. It was like he just didn't know how to do a wee on purpose until he felt the sensation before wetting himself. He was dry within a week and never had more than 2 accidents a day even within that. I did a sticker chart, chocolate button and sticker for every wee and a promised toy once he'd done 10 wees. He's almost 4 now and has only had the occasional accident since.

What happened when you tried? Was she naked or just in trousers? Did she have a nighttime nappy? Tries every 30 minutes? Stayed at home the whole time?

I absolutely agree with this. Did it over a bank holiday weekend and absolutely nailed it. Expect accidents. This weather is perfect for it as they can be naked while you do it. Good luck 🤞 🙏

Dont stress. My sons 4 and just potty trained. X

I just put my son in pants. They need to feel when wet to get it x

This. Get rid of the nappies.
Your energy is not needed elsewhere. Your daughter is still very young and needs you. You have the summer to crack this intensely. Many PP have some excellent ideas.

At my school they'll be changed by staff but it'll take 2 (safeguarding - one to change, one as witness) every time so we're borrowing one of our nursery staff for the first term. I think after that they're hoping they'll all be trained but it entirely depends. Each child will need an intimate care plan which is hopefully something you've discussed with your school already

It probably depends on the school but in my school it’d be 1 out of 30 not trained, with a few who have accidents. School will be supportive because they have to be but ultimately everytime they have to change a child it takes two members of staff, which means the rest of the children being without those staff, children not able to play in certain areas or have an adult leading group work. I know it would be massively appreciated by the teacher if you sorted this over the summer. You said you didn’t send your child to nursery/pre-school as you could both cover childcare but pre-school is there to sort all of these things before the start school, socialising, independent skills and toilet training, as well as fine and gross motor skills, early phonics and maths.

It's so infuriating reading these threads, I should really stop. Most parents don't get to this stage without having tried most of the obvious advice. The 'it's so easy if you x' and 'well they can't go to school untrained' and 'this didn't happen decades ago' comments are so unhelpful.

Mine (3.5 so I know not 4 like op) is also not trained. Not for want of trying. We've spent two weeks off work bare bummed/knickers. No joy. We've spent every long weekend bare bummed/knickers. We're now at a stage where she hates being wet in nappy or knickers but will hold and hold and hold for hours until a nappy goes on. In now 9 months of actively trying various methods (inc o crap and treats), no more than 3 drops of wee in a potty.

I'm sorry Op, it's stressful and I hope she gets it soon.

Even though it is different for SEN kids these type of comments don't half make me feel guilty. I genuinely can't see us succeeding with toilet training before my son starts school. I will have a good attempt but if it doesn't there is not much I can do but use two staff if he needs changing. He has a right to start school. I also don't think some realise how hard it is for some children to be trained who aren't ND or disabled. Some just don't get it. School preschool haven't helped us either despite saying they would.

Good luck OP. My child is younger but I just wanted to say she hated the potty and wouldn’t use it for anything. Steps and toilet seats all the way. I’m sure your child will crack it soon 💪

You probably shouldn’t have put her back in nappies, but you are where you are. September is still lots of time. I had to train my eldest when I’d just had a baby (though he was younger than your daughter) so I understand it’s tough. My youngest wasn’t trained til 3 years 7 months and I found it quite stressful, he does have ASD. I don’t know the oh crap method as my youngest is 17 so it was Gina Ford I used. I am not sure if she’s going bare bummed or in pants but I’d make sure she’s in pants so she feels the discomfort. It truly still remains the worst part of parenting and I’ve raised 2 teenagers! Good luck

I’m a TA that has spent many years in Reception and while we wouldn’t call parents in to change children when they had accidents, we wouldn’t do it all for them either. Our role was more about supporting the children to change themselves. Things like we would hold out the nappy bag for them to put their own dirty things in and talk them through what they needed to next. I can’t imagine any school doing everything for them when they need a change out of nappies or pants, especially as independent personal skills are part of the EYFS curriculum.

Maybe if you think one of your daughters reasons for not wanting to use the potty is that she doesn’t want to stop playing, you need to show her that she has more time away from her playing if she has to go to the toilet to change wet pants. Go straight for the toilet as that’s what she will have to get used to, and what she sees adults using, and make her do as much of her change as she can by herself. Changing herself is a skill she will need at school even just for PE so encouraging her to do it herself will help prepare her as well as teach her that it’s quicker and easier just to use the toilet in the first place.

Ditch the nappies! Good Luck!

I don’t think that post was intended to induce guilt, it’s just to explain the reality of what it is like in schools when children can’t manage their toileting by themselves. Parents can’t possibly know school
procedures otherwise. It can be helpful for parents to know how disruptive managing multiple daily accidents can be, and for them to know that teaching staff will not do a entire quick change for a child so they can prepare them to do it themselves.

individualised support will be put in place according to the personal needs of children with SEN, but we shouldn’t automatically assume that children with SN can’t be toilet trained before school. Many of them can be as their physical development is often no different to that of their peers.

If you suspect that part of the reason is that she doesn’t want to interrupt her play I would be implementing a twofold approach. I would be setting a timer on Alexa or your phone for every hour (if she uses the toilet) or 30 mins (if she hasn’t managed). I would do a star chart for every time she uses the toilet culminating in a prize - make the goals small and quick to achieve at first then you can spread them out more so bigger prizes for more stickers when she starts to get the hang of it. For any accident I would be (very calmly) making it take time away from playing to sort - so if she wets she has to pop in the shower to rinse off her lower half then get herself changed into new clothes (this is also good prep for school being able to get herself ready and changed where needed). No anger or irritation just a natural consequence - not using the toilet takes longer away from playing. Have lots of conversations about how she is more grown up than her sibling and that’s why she uses the toilet - prizes can be things like a new bedtime story she gets to read with you when baby is sleeping or if you have someone to have the baby popping out for an ice cream just you and her etc - because she is a big girl.

No negative attention for accidents, just minimally helping her get sorted.

all this is assuming no SEN or physical issues! I also wouldn’t worry about overnights at this point and focus on day time unless she is naturally dry overnight. I worked hard on routine - so before we went in the garden we tried on the toilet, before we sit down for dinner we tried, before we watched a movie we tried - all natural times to pop to the loo. The more times you are successful and the fewer times there are accidents then the quicker the process will be.

You'll need to invest time in this OP. Take at least a week off work and stay at home for the first few days. I only took a week with mine, but they were much younger and easier to persuade. Three year olds are stubborn things and you need to look at this as your only role for a week - to train your child to use the toilet.

Both of mine responded well to rewards - a sticker chart or chocolate button each time they use the toilet. They were both about 3 and a half and quite tall so we skipped the potty as and got a toilet seat with little steps up. Offering plenty of water and lots of reminders to use to toilet so they get used to how it feels to need the toilet.

The nappies need to go, no matter how many accidents she has. Just think of how much of pain it will be for you to go into the school every time she needs a nappy change!

It took nearly a year of accidents for my second child to finally be potty trained. We took nappies away at just turned two and she has only just decided it actually better to use the toilet than going in her pants. She was getting on the toilet probably 8 out of 10 times but some children it does take a lot of accidents to finally get the hang of it- we just pushed through it though and refused to go back to nappies.
Probably easier for me as I have tiled floors in every room.
I have friends who’s children have accidents at home but not at school as they regularly take them for toilet breaks at school and have a very set routine so there is hope she will be fine at school.

Op i think the more times you try and give up the harder it becomes.
You need to commit to it.

Its decent weather, you can do pants and shorts, and a quick wash, put them out and they'll be dry in a couple of hours.

I think inconveniencing her as much as possible. Get her to change, find clean pants put the wet ones in the machine.

You can't give up.
Tell her she's a big girl not a baby.

Interesting… what do you think is causing it May I ask?

and thank you for all your great advice. Will try and put it into practise and let you know how we get on. Particularly like the idea of knickers inside the nappy - that way she can get the feeling without the messes to clean up!

You make a good point. At the moment I just reassure her and tell her not to worry before cleaning her up. I guess getting her more involved will make it more convenient for her to just go to the loo won’t it!

she would just have loads and loads of accidents each day and wouldn’t notice until after they’d happened. We were making no progress. She was in normal knickers and clothed but nappies still at night. We tried every 30 mins and stayed at home as much as we could although had to go out sometimes

Thanks lovely x sent you a PM

Ah ok I see. Fingers crossed they’ll all make lots of progress once they start. At least the nursery staff member will be familiar with some of them too. And yes we’ve discussed this and will have one in place just in case

I think that would definitely help. You’ve spoken to the school so you know more about how the changing system works for children not fully trained, is that what they would do at school? And considering she’s never gone to nursery will she be comfortable having another adult change her?

When my normally fully potty trained dd randomly wet herself one day in reception several years ago she was just instructed on how to clean herself up from behind the toilet door, nobody actually touched or looked at her just passed her wipes and clean clothes.