Am I unreasonable to want my daughter playing downstairs with grandad?

[Lalaland2020]

Am a weird for feeling uncomfortable with my 6 year old daughter being alone upstairs in the bedroom with her grandad (my father in law - my dad isn’t around). My in laws keep the kids toys upstairs in the bedrooms, so she often goes up alone with him there (grandma is usually downstairs in the kitchen or with my son). I have asked my husband to bring the toys downstairs so they can play around other family members, but he says there isn’t an issue with her going upstairs to play and she asks to go up. I came home today to her and grandad being upstairs in her room with the door closed whilst my husband, grandma and my son were downstairs playing in the front room. When I asked my daughter to come down she said that they were on her bed with the iPad. I’ve sad to my husband that I’m not comfortable with this, but he said I’m making it weird and making my daughter feel bad. Am I a freak for feeling like this?!

I'm sorry @Lalaland2020 but you have your answer. If he's not interested in your son he's too interested in your daughter. FFS your husband is being a total dick. People who abuse children play a long game. They gaslight their spouses and you'll be doubting yourself. I'd be very angry. That child should not go into his house again. I'd refer to SS and get the nspc to talk to her. You'll never forgive yourself if he rapes her. Protect her. Every decent woman I know would choose their child over a husband. He should be angry too. Shame on him.

Fwiw I posted up thread and I was sexually abused from 7.

Your daughter's grandfather is behaving inappropriately and doesn't understand boundaries. Particularly evident in trying to take her to the toilet in front of you. I once had my parents staying over and my dad had a bath, when he was coming out wrapped in a towel my son woke up and he got into his bed with him. I told him to get out of the bed. It doesn't mean I'm implying anything untoward it's just not appropriate and crossing necessary boundaries for children.

Your husband is no help so you will just have to deal with this yourself. Simply tell him no I want DD downstairs. Insist on it. That's all you have to say. They are unlikely to argue with you but if they say but her yous are upstairs you go up and take them down. Insist and stand your ground. Be brave ! I have faith you will handle this, I can see you are a good mother.

If they really do make it a big deal you will just have to tell them that it is not appropriate for a little girl to be alone in a bedroom with a man, even if it is a relative. But hopefully it won't come to that. Some people just have no boundaries

I don't necessarily disagree with any of the suspicions actually - we only know OP's side of the story of course but I can't pretend the way she's presented it isn't concerning.

However, the advice to simply woman up and make her exit and put her foot down etc are easy to say but somewhat misguided. What, exactly, does any of that look like? What do suggest OP do, exactly, to 'woman up'?

I agree that DD's safety comes before hurt feelings but throwing out accusations are a family-ender - and going in hot and angry will do exactly that.

And then exDH is free to override OP whenever he goes round to visit his parents and the FIL gets more access without OP having any say, or being able to be present. That's worst worst worst case, surely?

Yikes. The updates are worrying OP. Your daughter is the only focus of this strange behaviour - and she is being encouraged to keep secrets. In addition, your husband is irrationally angry about this. Of course nobody wants to think a relative might be capable of this, but any sane parent would have to take serious pause here. Why isn’t he?

Not all situations like this lead to SA, but I can guarantee that all familial SA situations start with people overlooking these kind of red flags.

What did the marriage counsellor say when you argued about this in counselling? I can’t imagine they thought this was healthy or normal.

Please trust your instincts here. I would be taking her out during those visits, or making myself a feature in that bedroom. If he has nothing to hide, he’ll welcome the company. If he objects - that will tell you a lot.

This is a good idea.

Even if FIL is innocently playing with your DD, her being alone with anyone leads the child to believe that it’s ok to be alone with a stranger that might do her harm s she knows no difference……hope that makes sense.

This is an important point.

What would I say?

DD isn’t going upstairs to play, you can watch the iPad here. No arguments or no iPad.

She is 6. Not 16

But it’s very clear that this particular concerning issue is just one of a number currently ongoing in this marriage

I would put him right on the spot. Look him in the eye, stand firm and ask him directly "why can't you play on the ipad down here?" And wait for his response. There is absolutely nothing he could reply to that to justify why they need to be upstairs in bed.

OK. That might work for a bit I guess.

But it sounds as if this isn't the first time OP has made it clear that she's not comfortable with them being upstairs and she's being ignored so I have little faith that will be the end of it.

I think some of the advice here is excellent - be assertive - interrupt his access at every opportunity. Suggest baking or something really exciting when the grandparents visit so that your DD wants to stay downstairs. If you see them heading upstairs cheerfully follow saying “oh, can I come and play too - maybe little brother can join in - wouldn’t that be fun”! Make yourself the biggest obstacle in the world. If he is up to no good, he will be fully aware that you’ve figured out his game and he might back off. If he is entirely innocent he might be easily directed into more fun and appropriate activities.

I just ran this thread past a relative who is a safeguarding lead in a school. Their comment was “massive parade of red flags” - especially as this is heavily focussed on a female child while your male child is ignored.

In principle I don’t think it’s bad for a child to play alone with their grandad. BUT he has said some sort of inappropriate things and it’s raised alarm bells for you. You have mothers instinct and you should listen to your gut.

How is MIL reacting to this?

“A bit”? wtf

it would be every visit

and my daughter would soon learn not to even ask

And your SON is downstairs with the rest of the family? Why does he never play with the upstairs toys?🚩🚩🚩🚩

She's not there every visit.

People have gone absolutely mad about this. When I was a child (probably 2.5) I remember my grandfather holding me up in my bedroom to look out of the window to look at the birds. He taught me all about their songs and plumage. Not every man is a predator, particularly if family - i find this very sad.

I really do think all you have to say is no I want DD downstairs where I can keep an eye on her they are unlikely to argue about it it's a non- issue

I'm so sorry OP, I bet you wish you were being paranoid but I agree with you totally. Your FILs behaviour is a massive red flag especially the door being shut. I'd be really concerned that this is the start of grooming. Getting her used to alone time and closed doors. The fact FIL only does this with DD is a big worry.

From now on, the children play downstairs in both houses. Bring the toys downstairs yourself at their house and say you will tidy it all away before you go. You don't need to give an explanation, you just say that's the rules now. Your DH is burying his head in the sand.

Well I’d make damn sure I was there every visit

but as I say - this will be tip of the iceberg of issues between op and husband. So the much broader marriage issue needs to be addressed otherwise this will be a constant fight between the husband and op.

either way - my daughter wouldn’t ever do this again. The end

It all sounds very concerning. I’d consider limiting or cancelling visits. And definitely no alone time upstairs with grandad. The toys come downstairs or you don’t visit. Stuff what your DH says. It’s your DD ffs. I’d seriously considering going low or no contact with them unless there are changes. Which there probably won’t be.

My DM always made sure we were never alone with our stepgrandad (mum’s stepdad) as he’d stroked her (my mum) when she came to their bed if she had a nightmare when she was 11, she came to live with them at 11. Her mum just ignored it.

Nothing ever happened with me and DB but my mum would have created merry hell if her stepdad did touch us.

I think you're being naive. Saying 'the end' doesn't mean anything - you would be in a similarly precarious position as OP and hypothetically throwing your weight around on an anonymous forum will not translate into the real-life outcomes you're imagining.

Do you have children @Werideatdawnmaybelater

Quite simple, my 6 year old daughter would never be going upstairs with the door closed with anyone - man or woman that I feel unsettled about. There is no grey area. No “but….”

you can argue the toss, and that might well not apply to you and your style of parenting. But it’s mine

Some links:
Sarah's Law (Child Sex Offender Disclosure Scheme) | Police.uk
Clare's Law: Make a Domestic Violence Disclosure Scheme (DVDS) application | Police.uk
NSPCC | The UK children's charity | NSPCC

I think you're underestimating the backbone that some women have, especially when it comes to their children. I wouldn't give a fuck about offending anyone. It would not be happening.