He wouldn't give my D back tonight!

[mrsgfk]

We have no court order residency agreement as we agreed and it's just worked fine for 7.5 years.
So my daughter 13 went to her dad's for his contact weekend.
For context for 7 years we have been separated/divorced she has gone every other weekend. BUT tonight he's refused to let her come home. She even said she didn't want to come home ☹️😱 now mostly down to the turbulent relationship she has with her step dad (my husband) they clash, argue, bicker - but who doesn't with your average teenager! then throw in a teenager who has SEN needs and struggles emotionally. BUT recently everything at home has been fine, more than fine. No argument's or issues for ages. I could have understood if this was off the back of some previous issues but recently more than 6 months or even 12 of nothing but fine fun.
He was meant to drop her back at 1800. Didn't. I drove to his, he opened door and said he's had enough of all the issues at my house and daughter has decided she wants to live with him now. She backed this, albeit it behind him in tears.
Police called as I wanted to see her alone to talk and wouldn't leave but had to in end.

I've read I need to do mediation before I can take him to family court. But I'm so worried that she'll tell court she wants to stay with him and that will be that she'll be gone.

I know I need to get the full reason as to her "why she wants to stay" then I might understand or be able to rectify things or smooth past issues but right now just so worried that it will take months, tones of cash and in end she'll say she wants to stay there and court will agree.

I'm broken. She's hard work but she's my hard work. Dad has no idea what she's really like and how difficult parenting her can truly be sometimes.

Any info people can share be so good xx and mega thanks in advance

Absolutely agree.

i was the child in this scenario and what you brush off as “but who doesn’t!” is wearing your daughter down and she’s had enough.

Your ex didn’t “not bring her back”, she didn’t want to come back. Even when faced with you, she stood by this.

Let that sink in, and try again in a week or two. But if you aren’t prepared to accept her feelings, be prepared to see very little of her.

In your other thread, you have described your DS as 5 rather than 6.

Either way, there was a lot of change in a short period for your DD (at a similar age to your son now). The separation, your now DH moving in (or you two moving in with him), you getting pregnant and then a new sibling. She may well only now be articulating to herself/friends how that affected her.

I reiterate my advice from the other thread: please sit and listen to her. I am glad you are pursuing mediation but you must do so with a view to really understanding, not trying to get the mediator on your side to restore the previous status quo. I think, whatever happens next, there will be some changes.

Yes, it's more 'she's unhappy in our house and doesn't want to return and her dad us supporting her' ...

But as you can see from this thread, women often don't LET the biological dad be the single parent.

And they can't even seem to comprehend - that he has as much right to be the resident parent.

The dad in this case, and the daughter both agreed that they wanted the dad to be the resident parent..

What did the mum do? She called the police

I agree calling the police was wrong.

But the ex hasn’t gone about this in the best way either. It seems he didn’t drop DD back and didn’t message or call OP to say why, leaving OP worried and needing to drive over to find out what was happening.

None of your business

Quite shocked at the levels of critisism here. Its amazing how quickly we point blame with absolutely zero levels of evidence.

OK your DD doesnt get on 100% with your DH. Thats nothing new and doesnt mark him out as anything other than normal. Your examples of TV, timekeeping, eating etc are NORMAL parenting situations where it sounds like you and your DH are on the same page and trying to be nothing more than good parents. You do not deserve the grief you are getting on MN.

Its always the case, especially with kids who are starting to grow up, push boundaries that they argue and bump with parents. Throw in a ExDH who maybe undermines you or doesnt parent the same and you have recipe for issues. Ive seen it over and over again where the child has to deal with two different standards of parenting. Its confusing for the child and difficult for the parents.

This is not a new situation. My advice would be to be kind, be empathetic and be there for your daughter. Tell her you understand and support her. The exDH will either step up and your family dynamic will change or he will sink completely and she will be back quickly. Maybe give your DH a rest from parenting and take ownership of the discipline side of things. He is becoming the ogre when in fact, he is probably the one putting himself above and beyond. At the end of the day its not his child, if he didnt care he wouldnt get involved (Obviously based on your comments which is all i have to go on).

OP said she is worried ex can’t care for DD the way she can, as she has SEN.

She also said ‘know I need to get the full reason as to her "why she wants to stay" then I might understand’

Or are you saying that as soon as dd refuses to come home OP should just wash her hands off her and accept it? Because THAT would be bad parenting.

I’m quoting this so that it appears again in case you missed it.

My DSD’s mum probably had a similar narrative to you about tension with step dad, poor behaviour etc. The difference being that she kicked out her daughter and sent her to live with dad. Which was fine with us, she wasn’t a minutes bother and settled in quickly.

DSD’s narrative was that her mum took step dads side in everything, they had more kids together and she got pushed out, used as childcare and was always second best. She hasn’t spoken to her mum for about 25 years now and her mum won’t ever meet her grandkids.

The truth is probably somewhere in between but the bottom line is that there is a kid in here, hurting like mad and feeling like you don’t have her back. If that’s not what you want, take note of @CandyLeBonBon post.

People change around ages for privacy all the time, it’s not the gotcha you think it is

Only to women according to this poster and hillroad

😆

separating from ex 7 years ago
and you have a 6 year old with current partner

and you don’t think that would have left a 7 year old girl’s head spinning

Your attitude towards your daughter makes me quite uncomfortable - you seem to just think she's a massive drama queen who can't possibly have a genuine reason not to like your partner or the situation she's found herself in.

It really comes across as though you've been dismissing her feelings and she know feels she can't put up with it anymore.

Have you ever actually sat get down, one on one, and spoken to her about all this? She's had a lot of changes in the past few years, not to mention puberty on top. It also seems like you had a new baby a matter of months after divorcing her dad - is that right?

If so, no wonder she's angry.

I think your title says it all.

You see her as a possession.

She wants to live with her dad, she’s 13. Teenage years are hard, having a poor relationship with your husband (and by extension you) won’t make it any easier.

Let her choose.

I have many flaws but I've never had the police called on me, smashed the house up, threatened to kill him (in front of the children). He is useless, he sees them EOW and can barely handle that and brings them back early, leaves them with family etc.

I have no step fathers on the scene and to be honest, I doubt I ever will, even when they are grown because my ex ground me down to nothing and I have built myself back up. I'll never allow another man to do that to me and the children.

You have to leave it for now OP and let her experience life at her dad’s. She thinks it’s better because he plays Disney dad twice a month.
you dh has been parenting with you, and this is what she is trying to get away from - the rules. He is getting the anger because he is “not her dad” and trying to enforce house rules. There is a lot of “ dh is the issue” replies, but it’s not that - she doesn’t accept rules as she is 13 and trying to get her own way. She has probably even told a few stretched truths to real dad to get sympathy and a few more treats.
give it a couple of weeks and if she doesn’t return you need to get to family court and at least get a contact order.

Who said op should 'wash her hands of her dd'?
Why can't it be rp with dad, mum at weekends? Listening to the dd rather than -mum knows best?
Maybe she finds home busy with younger siblings, step siblings?

@Nannyoggapple

i often see women calling their ex partners abusive and useless, and then you see a lot of the women shouting and screaming at their children, being emotionally abusive, and exposing their children ro bad male stepfathers themselves

good point. I’ve seen this a lot.

My mum was a single parent and she had many of these issues except one thing she never did was allow men in our house (beyond platonic friends)as I’ve said she wasn’t perfect (and a darn sight better than my dad) but I’m so grateful that she didn’t want us to have a stepdad though.

I always felt very safe in that respect and used to feel sorry for my friends who had friction with their stepparent because it is very different from parent-child issue. Sometimes it wouldn’t even be huge arguments it would just be this feeling of discomfort in their own home that this strange man was there.

Nobody is expecting OP to be celibate. What a strawman scenario. OP can do whatever she wants with this man when she isn't responsible for her kids. However if she has children then it absolutely is her responsibility to create a safe and loving environment for that child and this includes ensuring that any step-parent she chooses to bring into the house is 100% contributing to a safe and loving environment. If stepdad isn't able to do this for whatever reason then he shouldn't be allowed to invade the child's living space. Whether she's being reasonable or not the 13YO almost certainly has the capacity to decide where she lives. If she isn't being listened to or prioritised in OP's household then this (and probably years of resentment) is the consequence. It really doesn't read like dad has done anything wrong. It sounds like he's actually listening to his child and respecting her wishes. Good luck persuading the courts otherwise OP

“now mostly down to the turbulent relationship she has with her step dad (my husband) they clash, argue, bicker - but who doesn't with your average teenager!”

This is not normal. Yes teenagers clash, argue and bicker with people. But no parent (or step parent) should clash, argue and bicker with a child/teen. The parent should be a calm authority, never resorting to arguing back and bickering. You yourself describe their relationship as turbulent. Please don’t brush this off as “normal”.

You need to let your daughter have a week or two at her Dads. Take her out for dinner/a walk/an activity and have a really calm chat with her and work out what is wrong for her and how it can be fixed. She needs to feel listened to. She needs to feel that you are on her team. Give her a bit of time/space and heal the relationship. Going in aggressive, straight to court, making it a huge issue, getting cross with her and your ex will only make the problem worse.

First red flag here is the title. Your daughter does not want to come home. This is NOT the same as her father refusing to return her, not at all. Every person who interacts with you, whether police, court, school, MN, can see this. You seem unable to get past your own drama and sense of entitlement to her.

she is a very different teenager for him than me. I've seen and heard it with my own eyes.
This might well suggest that his home is a healthier environment for her to be in.

She does have a habit of making things up or making them worst for sympathy.
This chills the blood. What exactly has she been trying to tell you, that you have dismissed as made up or 'exaggerated for sympathy'?

It's always good for children to have someone and somewhere else to run to, whether another parent, wider family or friends. Stop making it about you, and start working out if and how you've failed her, and how best to meet her needs at the moment.

OP - I can sympathise.

My SS had issues with his Step Dad and decided he wanted to come and live with us (me and DH, his dad). We also assumed that SS was being treated badly by his Step Dad and welcomed him with open arms. Turns out that he was simply running away from the usual teenage problems most kids have with their parents and he had the same problems in our house. Wasnt two years later and SS decided that actually his Step Dad wasnt so bad and moved back there.

Kids are not always right and I wish we had been able to be a united family (Step Dad, Ex Wife, DH and myself) about what the real problems were and addressed that instead of letting the kid decide where life was perceived to be easier in the moment.

When my (slightly older) son did this I waited until it calmed then sat down with him, with a large piece of paper in front of us both and worked through the pros and cons.

This made sure that he understood the impact of the changes afoot and that once he had made a decision he couldn't easily revert back.

Moving schools was the biggest change, I met with him and them. His school did help talk it through with him too and said that within a couple of months, he could return to them but after that he wouldn't be able to.
I spoke with his dad too.

My son needed to see the impact of the move, both positive and negative but discussed in an objective way. He needed to be listened to and for me to talk too.

He did move to his dad and hasn't returned. Gut wrenching. It has taken time to reestablish our relationship. It hasn't been easy. I'm not sure it was for the best and has impacted on his education more than anything. His dad’s influence isn't great. But he is his dad. I chose the have a child with this man and although it didn't work for us, I don't have the right to turn father against son. (no abuse, or risks).

What things do you think she is making up for sympathy' and who about? Did you actually talk to her about it or brush it off @mrsgfk ?

A few people have picked up on the “bickering” and “turbulence” between stepdad and daughter.

This dynamic can happen with bio /Adoptive parents too but I’ve noticed it disproportionally more when step-parents are involved. The whole arguing with the child as if they’re an older annoyed sibling or a peer rather than acting like a parental figure.