What should I do about my friend's 3 year old son who wrecks my house?

[mummyluvsyoo]

Help! My DS is 3.

I have a friend who has a son also aged 3. The boy doesn't speak - although he does understand language. His social behaviour is inappropriate for his age (no eye contact, no imaginative play, no parralel or co-operative play, no interest in social interaction) and he is now being assessed although they have been given a provisional diagnosis of high functioning autism.

My problem is that my friend does not attempt to impose even the simplest boundaries on his behaviour - so when he comes to the house he literally runs around, jumps on the sofas and wrecks everything in sight. If we ask him to stop he just ignores us. If my DS behaved in this way I would go and remove him from the situation - but my friend doesn't do this. On one occasion when he was in DS's room he threw all his toys off the shelves and would not share them with DS. My friend did not really try and stop him from doing this, even though I asked her to. I have not let him go upstairs since. She avoids any situation where her DS will not get his own way. On the occasions when she has got him to sit down, for example, doing colouring he grabs all the crayons and when my DS tries to share them he refuses - but my friend then tells MY(!) DS to let HER boy have the crayons - which is unfair. She does the same thing when we go to their house. So it ends up that my DS feels he has been naughty when he has not.

I thought the solution would be to just not meet at home and be in open places. However this boy is just like other 3 year olds in terms of physical development. Because he doesn't interact with DS and is in his own world I worry that my DS might get hurt, especially on climbing frames, etc. I can't even let this boy in the garden because he runs in places that he shouldn't. His behaviour in restaurants etc is so inappropriate that the whole event is just too stressful and I am left wondering why I bothered. I am also worried that DS will be influenced by this behaviour.

I am finding the whole thing very frustrating. My DS is not getting the benefit of a "normal" social interaction.
I don't want to ostracize my friend during what must be a very difficult time for her. I would like the boys to continue to play together but only if she can take steps to impose some boundaries on his behaviour. However I think that she just thinks that I am being over-precious about my house. I admit that I am tidy and organised - but I don't have a problem with children's mess - it's the destructive behaviour that I object to with my friend's son. My DS's other little friends make one helluva mess but they are never destructive in this way.

My DS likes him coming round but doesn't like when he is "naughty" as he puts it. Similarly the boy seems to like coming to our house - but unfortunately treats it like a barn! I get upset when my DS gets treated unfairly by my friend, especially in his own house, with his own toys!

It is not that I am discriminating against the boy - it's just that if my friend doesn't even try and control him then he will never learn how to behave. I don't feel this is a problem to do with his suspected autism - I would be writing this about any child who behaved in this way in my house.

So what should I do. My friend is so keen that the boys remain friends - but after last week - I don't know what to do - being with them is not an enjoyable experience, for me, my DS or my DH who has to scrape me off the floor and give me intravenous wine after one of their visits

To those of you who are quick to judge me. I am a school governor at a special school and also have a nephew with autism. I am a qualified counsellor - so please reserve your unhelpful judgements for another post.

I am simply looking for help in what is a very delicate situation.

Well said, Mummy. There really is something in the air this week!!

I think you've had some sensible advice on this thread regarding meeting in the open air .. especially now that summer is around the corner. That would address the immediate problem.

I still say let's wait for the diagnoses.

I'm puzzled why someone who is a governor at a special school and has a nephew with autism is so blind to the fact that this little boy's behaviour is highly likely to be caused by autism and that ordinary discipline that makes sense to NT children will not work for him. Do you see much of your nephew? Did you spend much time with him when he was three? Have you considered that autism is a huge spectrum and the way one autistic child experiences the world may be very different to another?

I can understand that it is difficult for you to entertain this child but I do think you are showing an incredible lack of awareness of the implications of autism.

Time to close this thread, methinks.

Edam, being non-autistic carries a fairly wide spectrum too. The OP is looking for support. If you have an axe to grind, chose a thread which says 'I have an autistic child and no one understands me.' And then, give them your support.

In my opinion, wading in like this to a perfectly well-meaning OP is not helpful.

Govenor of a specvial school or not, I would say you are finding ASD close up difficult. Children with ASD sometimes are destructive, it is one of the most wearing things about living with the condition. If you are going to continue to see the mother and child then you probably will have to put up with some destructiveness.

Your friend sounds like she needs to get a diagnosis then go on something like an NAS Earlybird course to get some strategies to help with his behaviour. She sounds to me like at the moment she doesn't have any strategies for dealing with the behaviour because nothing works (been there done that with all sorts of behaviours its a nightmare).

I wouldn't worry about the benefit of a normal social interaction if you're seeing this boy only occasionally. Your ds will be learning tolerance and about difference. That can be a valuable lesson as well. DS2 and ds3 are around abnormal social interactions with their brother for much longer. It hasn't done the any harm- they just go elsewhere to learn the normal stuff.

If he;s not talking he really shouldn;t be dxed with HFA. ASD would do. I was told when ds1 was 2 that he wasn't autistic, or if he was it was only mild. He is severely autistic. It is very difficult to dx place on the spectrum in very young children.

If your friend does get the autism diagnosis for her child then she will need support. Whether that's by you "putting up with" her son's behaviour, or you helping in different ways, only time will tell. I don't much about autism, and what I do know I have learned from reading threads on here. perhaps when you get a spare minute you could go into the Special Needs section and just read some threads, just to get an understanding of how it works, read up on the internet. If you class this woman as a friend then surely you would want to help her

Right end of rant - I don't really care if people want to think badly about me. In my line of work we learn how to be non-judgemental and perhaps people are so shocked by my candidness that they fail to see what I am saying - or perhaps people are so hell bent on being politically correct that they feel it is inappropriate to say anything bad about "helpless" people. I am afraid that kind of attitude really doesn't help the people involved.

My post is really a question of basic boundaries that are not being applied when they should be - regardless of a potential ASD diagnosis. To "mummytosteven" my child is no angel - and when he does misbehave I deal with appropriate. To "Funnypeculiar" as I said this is not a question of mess. And fyi my DS friends - behave like all 3 year olds do - this is not about the boy - it's about the lack of boundaries. I really like this little boy - but I just don't like the situations we have been having recently - s0me of which have been potentially dangerous!

So thank you "mummycan" for your honesty (and bravery). To "bluebubbles" - I like the boy and his mum - I would miss them - plus they live very close to us.

Yes mummytosteven - he pushed a child quite hard and chipped his tooth - which could of course happen with any children - again it is about what is done about it - my friend did not apologise to the mother or make any attempt to see if the child was OK or if she needed help (and she's a nurse!!!!) So can you see my dilemna - it is all so one-sided.

Thank you rabbleraiser - at last a rational human being. I love you! THIS IS SO NOT ABOUT THE BOY. Grrrrrrrrrr!

why rabbleraiser? As the parent of an autistic child I think the poster is missing the point in many instances. I have no axe to grind. The OP has a simple choice- she either accepts the boy and continues to see him, or she decides his autism is too difficult to be close to and doesn't. Quite a few (ex) friends decided the same about us when ds1 was diagnosed. No problem; its incredibly hard work to be around people who can't deal with it anyway.

I'm impressed that the mother even carries on trying to go to restaurants/out and about etc. She must be made of stern stuff.

What sort of behavioural technique would you suggest she uses? The last meeting I had with a clinical psych to discuss challenging behaviours she was keen to point out that it is very very difficult to prevent CB's in autistic children. She said I could try various techniques but there was every chance they would not work, and that we also had to look at changing the environment (locked doors high fences). If you know how to stop this sort of behaviour believe me you could be a rich woman.

helpless people

mummyluvsyou your situation was diffrent to mine then because i could live without the friendship. i know what angle you were coming from with your post though and cant understand how so many people have picked it up so wrong.

rabbleraiser well posted

Gess thanks for your post. She is made of stern stuff - but is very soft where her DS is concerned.

Please no more lectures about how "normal" discipline is difficult for ASD children. I KNOW ALL THIS!!! If I had not put in the fact that he might have ASD we would be having quite a different discussion.

I like my friend, I like the boy, the boy likes me. DS likes them both. IS EVERYONE OK WITH THAT?

This isn't going anywhere I think. I am just going to continue meeting up outside in parks etc - picnics, walks, zoo that sort of thing. I will continue to support my friend emotionally and practically. And I will continue on the intravenous vino.

I will say to her when she pops round if she would like to come through to the garden (we have lots of toys and stuff out there anyway). Luckily it is summer and they can do paddling pool or water play.

She is going on the NAS course I already suggested that to her - so hopefully she will learn techniques that can help her to deal with him in difficult situations.

mummy - is it that you want your friend to go through the motions of "normal" discipline, even if it doesn't succeed, so that you feel she is trying?

Hi, Gess. I understand where you're coming from, but my take on this thread is that the OP has raised an issue concerning possible autism in a child that she is in contact with.

I perfectly understand why parents of autistic children will be attracted to this debate, but I am asking for a little balance here.

The OP (and she's woman enough to stick up for herself without my intervention), has posed a perfectly valid, probably day-to-day dilemma. No one is dissing autistic children; in my opinion they are the source of enormous creativity and beauty. I am certain that Mozart, for instance, was autistic. Autistic children are different children, and vive la difference, and the OP understands this.

But we're missing the point of the original post, which I find depressing. This little boy has not yet been diagnosed as autistic, and the OP is as yet uncertain that he is.

mummyluvsyoo, you seem to want to continue the friendship, may sound corny, but have you tried to bond with the little boy? I have found that with some of my kids friends that were hard to like, when I really tried to find something to connect to then my relationship with them got better. They would often pick up on this and behave better. May not improve his behaviour, but may make it less stressful for you.

but rabble - if the boy is seeing professionals and has been given a DX, it is highly unlikely that he has not got SN.

Can you meet at your friend's house? Does that make any difference? At least she can't accuse you of being housepround and precious and her son in on familiar home ground.

If you've really reached breaking point about having this boy and your son together anywhere, can you see your friend by herself for now, play for time, see what the diagnosis points to, and try again in a few months?

If you have this involvement with special needs children, then I can see that your friend might be especially keen to keep in touch with you. She might really welcome seeing you without children to distract you both.

Or, if you have the woman and her son in you home, can you change the dymamics by inviting another parent and their child round at the same time? Would that help at all?

Oh I find thiese threads so depressing- "yes yes I;m all for inclusion and I like hearing all about children with SN as long as their challenging behaviours don't affect me". So depressing. CB's go with conditions like autism. If you can't tolerate them in your house, or you can't cope with the embarrassment in restuarants etc then fine, you don't have to. Just don't bitch about how awful it was afterwards. Don't say "my friend doesn't do anything" when you've never tried to discipline an older non-verbal child. It all looks so easy until you have to try it. If he is autistic (and tbh pretty much sounds like it to me), thenthe CBs are quite possibly going to get worse, so if you can't cope wwith it in a 3 year old you won't in an 8 year old.

mummylovesyou - so it's the friend's passive behaviour as to her son's misdeeds that bothering you? i would go at it more from the angle of asking how SHE is feeling, trying to get her to open up in general, then see if the issue of how she feels about his behaviour etc crops up naturally in the conversation.

Mozart- oh please. My reality of autism is a child who screams, hits himself, can't be taken out in public veryu easily and tries to scale 8 foot walls. Actually I do think he's rather beautiful, but Mozart has absolutely nothing to do with 99% of people on the autistic spectrum.

quite Gess, for a horrible moment reading the OP, I was worried she was talking about my DS!

oops you already answered that earlier ...really must start reading all of the thread..

fuck off

nice

bet the parents at the school you govern are so proud

anyway I'be lost the plot and have work to do- my overall impression from the OP is that the poster has little experince of autism. It all sounds like normal ASD behaviour to me. No of course she doesn't have to live iwht it/tolerate it. And if she can't then she should just stop seeing her friend. There won't be any magic wand to fix it.