What should I do about my friend's 3 year old son who wrecks my house?

[mummyluvsyoo]

Help! My DS is 3.

I have a friend who has a son also aged 3. The boy doesn't speak - although he does understand language. His social behaviour is inappropriate for his age (no eye contact, no imaginative play, no parralel or co-operative play, no interest in social interaction) and he is now being assessed although they have been given a provisional diagnosis of high functioning autism.

My problem is that my friend does not attempt to impose even the simplest boundaries on his behaviour - so when he comes to the house he literally runs around, jumps on the sofas and wrecks everything in sight. If we ask him to stop he just ignores us. If my DS behaved in this way I would go and remove him from the situation - but my friend doesn't do this. On one occasion when he was in DS's room he threw all his toys off the shelves and would not share them with DS. My friend did not really try and stop him from doing this, even though I asked her to. I have not let him go upstairs since. She avoids any situation where her DS will not get his own way. On the occasions when she has got him to sit down, for example, doing colouring he grabs all the crayons and when my DS tries to share them he refuses - but my friend then tells MY(!) DS to let HER boy have the crayons - which is unfair. She does the same thing when we go to their house. So it ends up that my DS feels he has been naughty when he has not.

I thought the solution would be to just not meet at home and be in open places. However this boy is just like other 3 year olds in terms of physical development. Because he doesn't interact with DS and is in his own world I worry that my DS might get hurt, especially on climbing frames, etc. I can't even let this boy in the garden because he runs in places that he shouldn't. His behaviour in restaurants etc is so inappropriate that the whole event is just too stressful and I am left wondering why I bothered. I am also worried that DS will be influenced by this behaviour.

I am finding the whole thing very frustrating. My DS is not getting the benefit of a "normal" social interaction.
I don't want to ostracize my friend during what must be a very difficult time for her. I would like the boys to continue to play together but only if she can take steps to impose some boundaries on his behaviour. However I think that she just thinks that I am being over-precious about my house. I admit that I am tidy and organised - but I don't have a problem with children's mess - it's the destructive behaviour that I object to with my friend's son. My DS's other little friends make one helluva mess but they are never destructive in this way.

My DS likes him coming round but doesn't like when he is "naughty" as he puts it. Similarly the boy seems to like coming to our house - but unfortunately treats it like a barn! I get upset when my DS gets treated unfairly by my friend, especially in his own house, with his own toys!

It is not that I am discriminating against the boy - it's just that if my friend doesn't even try and control him then he will never learn how to behave. I don't feel this is a problem to do with his suspected autism - I would be writing this about any child who behaved in this way in my house.

So what should I do. My friend is so keen that the boys remain friends - but after last week - I don't know what to do - being with them is not an enjoyable experience, for me, my DS or my DH who has to scrape me off the floor and give me intravenous wine after one of their visits

quite shocked at your post and whilst i respect your honestly, try walking in your friends shoes, instead of worrying so much about what is normal

Of course this is about his autism!
Do try to have a little more empathy, please.

Sounds like they enjoy each other's company. That is good, but for your sake you need to make the situation more manageable. Sounds like he will need close supervision and to be in a safe non-destructable place. That really means the garden or park - good thing the weather is good! Can you take them there for a limited time and with the idea of devoting yourself to supervising them/or playing with them so they both enjoy it without hurting each other?
If you go without the boy's mum if that is OK with her then you will get to know the boy better and he will respond to you differently from his own parent. Will give the poor mum a break too.
Try to keep it all quite calm and maybe he will respond by calming down.
Find out what he does like to do and set up an activity he will like if he comes to the house - making a den / music and jumping around / lego? Resign yourself to supervising them, but not bossing them around too much if possible. Your son obviously knows the difference between his own behaviour and the friend's - I don't think he will be influenced, but will gain from having a somewhat wild friend.
Good luck!

Agree with Alhoa.

Hang on everyone, this little boy has not yet been assessed. Regardless of potential autisim assessment there are certain levels of discipline that I would expect a parent to at least try and use.
Mummyluvsyoo I sympathise, I have no experience of this but I too would have a very similar reaction to you .

And yes, it does sound as if this is about his possible autism, but if you don't have any experience of that then you will learn a lot from this boy too and he will teach your son a lot about how other people see the world.

I know this sounds cruel but try and arrange for other children to play with your DS - he needs to have normal interaction as well.

I have been in this situation although thankfully it was rarely in my house - eventually I stopped all contact with this boy. I have a friend who did not and continued to see the mother (and father) and child. I would hear endless stories about how he had behaved and how the parents didn't think it was a problem. Unfortunately my friend's child is now having some problems with bullies but still wants to be friends with them and my friend now worries that her child believes that it's ok to continue to be friends with people who hurt you and break your things. FWIW I think the bullying thing is a completely separate issue but it doesn't make my friend feel any better.

Sorry for the ramble but I would say to your friend that if she can't at least try to control her child then you are not going to put your child in the position of having his things broken, snatched and being treated by her as if he is in the wrong.

I realise that lots of people will disagree with me but we are all parents and want the best for our children.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Re-read the OP - would talking to your friend about how you can help them play together better help? Sounds like she hasn't realised how stressful it is for you and is centred entirely on her own son's behaviour.

. from a parent of a 3 year old with speech delay, and likely IMHO to be diagnosed with mild ASD/HFA.

Look at it this way - unless you are extraordinarily fortunate, there will be a time when it is your child that misbehaves, and a friend's child is the well behaved one. think how you would like to be treated in that situation.

I am surprised that the boy's mother isn't going through the motions on sharing etc - but possibly she is so stressed by the ASD diagnosis that she doesn't have the energy or she has been told by the professionals not to sweat the small stuff and to ignore things that aren't likely to cause injury.

ok, from a position of reasonble ignorance on autism ... it sounds to me like this is almost totally to do with your friend's ds' autism. If he has no interest in social interaction, he ain't going to get sharing, for example.

A few thoughts for you

1. The mess is unimportant in the long term. Let go. Loosing a friend becuase you don't support then at a hard time in their life, is, imho
2. Equally, imho, it is a good thing for children to be around 'non-normal' (to use your concept) children. Physically & socially. Would you be worried about your ds spending time around a child in a wheelchair?! I guess not ...
3. If you only know 3 year olds who aren't distructive, share nicely and behave well in restaurants ... how many 3 y os do you know??

Relax a bit - does it REALLY matter if your friend kids runs where he shouldn't in your garden??

had the same problem and im afraid the friend had to go,a few of my friends had the same problem with her and her child and they all did the same, im afraid now as terrible as it may sound i choose my friends according to there parenting skills, fair enough some of them have little monsters but mine can be like that at times and we all deal with it in the appropriate way.

i think the biggest problem i had with the old friend was the same as what you have, she would say to my kids to let her child have whatever toy she wanted etc and i had just had enough.

i feel i can give my other friends children a "ticking of" when appropriate and i dont mind if they have to do the same to my children but that would never have worked with this other woman.

I actually think you really need to decide for yourself whether you are willing to continue this relationship and be supportive

Because to be honest .. if you can't 'relax' and accept the behavioural issues this child has (whether dx or not) then it would probably be best if you did cut and run

Not everybody is able to deal with other people's children

You could unknowingly put extreme pressure on this family in an incredibly difficult time by your expectations of NT behaviour by a child who may just not be NT .. your expectations are like an alien world to him .. he doesn't understand .. he's not being naughty

I would suggest you meet in the open if you can't cope with the house destruction and you appreciate that your role as a friend is to more closely supervise your own child whilst they are playing and if you see danger then remove your own child

sorry

out of interest, has there been any particular incident at playgrounds, I am a bit puzzled as to your fears on that score.

can i add before someone jumps in that this child was "normal" (sorry hate using that word) and situation would have been diffrent if there was the autism factor involved

would tell your friend how you feel - be straight forward. This will help you both move forward and find solutions.

LapsedRunner children on the Autism spectrum do not respond to normal 'behavioural techniques' in fact some parenting techniques can exacerbate their behaviour which stems from their understanding / relationship with the world

whilst my DS probably doesn't have the behavioural issues this boy does, I have been f*cking miserable and worried sick since it has become obvious that DS language wasn't going to magically improve by age 3. So I think that this mum deserves a LOT of wine and sympathy.

mummycan - sounds like the OP's child does have other children to play with too.

Including a child who has special needs (if this is the case) can only enrich your own child's understanding of the world.
Make him welcome, but talk to the mother about your concerns and find a way for them to enjoy each other's play safely.
You could go swimming, to the playground, to soft play, or for a walk round the park.
If he is AS then much of his behaviour and the fact that he doesn't respond to your idea of parenting is understandable.

I have a friend who has a lovely little boy who is 3 and has already been diagnosed as autistic. He is not very comfortable being restricted and so we just try to meet in places where he can have more freedom (outside, play gyms etc). It's no problem. TBH I wouldn't be bothered anyway about my friend's ds coming to our house as (a) he is not destructive and (b) my house is a mess but nevertheless my friend likes him to be outside more as it suits him better. And it's fun for my sons too. Why not do that?

I imagine you are going to get jumped on for that OP and I hope some of the mums from SN who have autistic children find this and give you a little bit more info about what it really means to be autistic and to be a parent to an autstic child.

I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think that you don't understand autism AT ALL and you need some more insight to help you realise what this situation is all about. It has EVERYTHING to do with his autism and very very little to do with your friend's handling of him.

Everything this child does is a result of his autism and I should imagine that your friend has a very hard time caring for him. We foster a 9 year old with autism - he comes to our house every 4 weeks to give his parents a break and when he was around 3/4 he was very similar to this boy you describe.

What you need to understand is that many of the behaviour strategies you use on your son will NOT work on this boy. Removing him from a situation will not make him behave when he's allowed back in because he can not make the connection between his behaviour and the consequence. His behaviour is not about him being naughty, it's about him being unable to understand the world around him and not processing things in the way a NT 3 year old would.

Your son isn't getting a 'normal' interaction with this boy because he can't relate to people in that way. He may never be able to, it's not a temporary condition, he will always be autistic and social interaction will always be a huge challenge to him.

If being with them is not an enjoyable experience for you, just imagine for a minute what kind of experience it is for your friend who has to cope with it 24/7. She can't have a glass of wine when it's over because it's never over for her. I would also bet that her son doesn't sleep well, as autistic children often don't so she doesn't even get that break. It's not just now that is a difficult time for her - it's not going to get any easier once she gets that diagnosis. There's no magic cure, there's precious little support around for parents of autistic children and if you want to be a good friend to her then you need to educate yourself properly about autism and its implications on her and her son. Life is likely to get tougher, not easier and she will need all the help she can get. I hope you can be open minded enough to be that friend.

Well, I wasn't 'shocked' by your post at all, and I suspect that you were quite upset by the initial response to your thread, mummy.

I took time to read your post thoroughly, and I would not like to be in same position. I do agree that your ds will know the difference that autism will bring to another child's reaction to the world, and that in the long term it will do him no harm. I am sure he'll be able to differentiate.

However, if the time spent between them is fairly exclusive (i.e., your ds is not spending proportionately as much time with other children), then I can understand your concerns.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but the underlying problem seems to be the relationship between yourself and your friend - and God, can I understand that, especially where children are concerned.

But most of all, perhaps everyone should wait until his condition is fully diagnosed. There are other conditions that display similar traits. For instance, autistic children are rarely, or noticeably 'mean.' Does this little boy's behaviour extend beyond boisterousness and lack of communication? Is he destructive with living things, for instance, is he cruel? Is he a bully? I suppose what I'm asking is, are you unhappy to leave your son and your friend's son alone together for any length of time?

Laspedrunner, 'Mummyluvsyoo I sympathise, I have no experience of this but I too would have a very similar reaction to you' is precisely the point. You don't know anything about it and you can not judge either the boy or his mum until you have had some experience.

errr i read the post thoroughly also

and my post was directed at the completely lack of empathy for her 'friends' situation, diagnosis or not.

Well said, but the point of MN is to try to help the OP. No one is trying to deliberately raise hackles here, so let's calm down.

Again, let's try to remember that the child in question (and God love him) has not yet been diagnosed.

The OP is entitled to air her concerns in a free and open forum. That includes parents with autistic children and parents who don't. Life is a two-way street.