My children told the school I neglect and hit them

[Charliechaplin1988]

I got a call from a social worker after an argument with my daughter over her buss pass being lost again . They went to both my daughters who said they were scared of me and I wasn’t looking after them correctly (I am mid divorce and they are a bit older and I will say my standards have droppee ) but noyhing I can’t fix like more effort at dinner time and more effort with making sure they’ve taken the right equipment . Mt children were removed from me that day and given to my parents and are now being interviewed by police over claims I assult them ! I have pulled them apart and whacked their legs when they were going hell for leather on each other but I can’t believe it’s got here. We are so incredibly close and having them away from me is breaking me. Will I get them back ? I’m their only parent ?!! We’ve been together just us for 11 years as they weren’t close to their step dad and I feel like I’m dying inside. There’s much work I neee to do but everyone is agasijt me ( apart from my children ) who I saw at the weekend and still adore their mother as they have no gravity of the situation ) I’m so so scared

It is a grey area in England. Whilst it isn't illegal (providing you don't leave a mark) it is deemed unacceptable by the authorities. So police wouldn't prosecute unless you left a mark but they would make raise a safeguarding concern. So whilst you wouldn't go to prison for doing it, the authorities wouldn't want to leave a DC in that situation unless the parent was willing to learn and change, with the help of SS and parenting courses.

I am really surprised that two teenagers were removed from their home and placed with grandparents (who should have been travelling so would not have been prepared) because their mother slapped them on the back of the legs once and fed them pasta for dinner. Not being as emotionally resilient for teenagers wouldn't seem like a reason for removing children either.
You constantly read stories about much younger vulnerable children being kept in the home with support from social services. We are told that keeping children in their home, with support, is always the preferred option.
I would imagine the allegations made by the children are much more serious than have been stated. If hitting your children is legal in England then I can't imagine that a one-off slap would result in a police investigation either.

I can’t imagine a child would lie about something as serious as this. More effort at dinner time? Are they not being properly fed and cared for?

The best thing you can do OP is to be honest. Admit to the social worker that you have been under stress recently and so have the children. Things have gone off track. Tell the social worker that you want to work to get things back on track as you love your children and have always been close. Explain the recent family break up etc,
Explain that the kids have been arguing a lot and you have found it difficult to handle. Follow any advice they give and be prepared to jump through hoops.
It isn't clear yet whether this is going to court. It sounds like the current situation is temporary while the police and social services investigate (this is normal). If they do proceed with child protection get a good solicitor as soon as possible. Take any help offered and be prepared to accept supervision.
Being so stressed yourself, it seems like you have lost sight of the affect on the children and you need to reprioritise.
Social services are not nasty but there is a lot of variation in how individual social workers will communicate with you. Their priority is the children. Some will assume the worst of you from the outset, others will try to point you to help for yourself so that you can parent more effectively. However the social worker approaches this your best response is honesty and cooperation.

Hi I'm only in my 20s it's hardly "back in the day" out in the real world and not the virtue signalling online world most people know that a whack on the legs while breaking up a fight is not a big deal.
Someone also said the op doesn't have self awareness or words to the effect but she seems pretty aware of her mistakes and the need to sort them out to me. As with many of these threads it's a huge rush to bash the op.

I'm guessing from your posts that your girls are 11 and 12 and that you've had no prior involvement from social services?

You also say your girls want to return home and that this is the only incident where you've hit them.

Based on this I would say that social services would be looking for reasons to send your girls back home to you. Anything proactive you can do will help: going to your GP about your depression, borrowing some books on parenting teens from the library, signing up for any free local or online parenting classes, getting on top of the housework if it's fallen behind, etc.

If there is more to this story that you have not mentioned (alcohol use?) be honest with yourself and seek help. Don't be tempted to brush it under the carpet - it'll catch you up later.

I really hope everything turns out well for all 3 of you.

In case you hadn't noticed, there are two children in this scenario who have both told trusted adults that they feel scared of their mum. I don't think we should minimise this or normalise hitting children. It certainly won't help the OP, who needs to understand the seriousness of this situation and engage with services to get help.

I strongly suspect that you are in denial and that the situation is more neglectful than you are admitting.

Kids do not get taken away because you give them pasta instead of making "more effort at dinner time".

Both of your children saying that they are afraid of you is of major concern and I cannot find it within myself to have any sympathy for you. You are not the injured party. Your children are afraid of you! You need a reality check.

Exactly, it actually would take alot for children to be removed from their parents care. Having had access to our local social work database in my last role I've read first hand the situation some kids are living in and still they aren't removed.

I don't think that she is aware of her mistakes.
I don't think that her version of events is accurate.
If the children had the same version of events then they would have not been immediately removed from her care.

yes they are, there are literally cases where social service are taking kids from people that don’t need to be taken and using there power against them

no my opinion don’t come from any undying issue, this has nothing to do with me, your making out that slapping a child for being naughty is abuse, it’s not abuse, there’s big difference from a slap and a punch, some kids don’t learn from being told, personally I wouldn’t hit any child I have but I am not going to judge someone or report someone that does because how do i know the reasoning behind it, and there’s a big difference to hitting someone in your work place and teaching your child right from wrong, this is the problem with the new generation they don’t know right from wrong and they just do whatever they like and when they do go out into the world they are going to get hurt because they run there mouth or hit the wrong person, u need to teach them that u got to keep your mouth shut and mind your own business and keep your hands to your self, there are some nasty people out there that will hurt them

@Charliechaplin1988 have you done anything to address your depression. Have you visited your GP and told him that you need help?

A couple of parents reported the family of a child in my daughter’s friendship group. He said he was being abused and was too scared to go home but SS didn’t remove him after a home visit.
I am very surprised that OP had hers removed when this child wasn’t.

Is hitting a child now illegal?

@Charliechaplin1988 I am sorry that your family is in such a difficult situation. There is no point in bashing you (even if I wanted to, which I don't!) because I'm sure you are doing a fine job of beating yourself up already.

Some of the advice you have already been given is good- get legal advice if you possibly can, look at the Family Rights Group website (I'm sure there must be other charities etc to help families with SS involvement too). Be co-operative and honest. If you hit them once and this is not a pattern, make that very clear. You might write a list of all the things that have changed in your house (different meals, fewer outings, whatever it is). "Neglect" can mean widely different things to different people, and especially to children and social workers.

In this sort of situation, I think it is very important not to get bogged down in depression and blame (of yourself or the system) and to focus on positive steps you can take. It's easy to lose hope, and to feel lost and alone. Get support if you can- I know families who have had far worse allegations made and they came through with the support of their priest (this is just an example, is there any member of your community who can give support without judgement, and in total confidence?). I should add that some of these families were not religious.

I hope today goes well for you and that you at least get an idea of the steps you need to take next.

The line "I don't believe her version of events" always gets trotted out. All we've got to go by is what she's said but that also applies to every single other post on this site and the internet in general. We can only assume she's telling the truth to do otherwise achieves nothing anyway do you seriously think that if she actually is a lying child abusing monster that you commenting on this thread is going to achieve anything?

It saying online u don’t have the legal right to hit your child unless it’s reasonable punishment, it also says if u leave brushes or scratches then that’s assault and u can be arrested for this

Absolute nonsense. Social services are NOT taking kids for no reason. Social workers case loads are so ridiculous there are people not getting the support that is required, they are going off with stress due to their work loads. They are absolutely NOT taking kids willy nilly for no reason and adding to their workload and if you believe that, you're wired to a mars bar.

There's cases of abuse of power in every profession, they are the exception, SS are not paid to remove people's children.

You think the problem with the 'new generation' is that their parents didn't abuse them enough? That's fucked up thinking.

Would you slap a colleague for not listening? Someone else's child maybe? A cashier if they forget something? Surely if a slap is the way to get someone to listen we should all be doing it to everyone.

Hitting a child is literally abuse, it's totally illegal where I am.

@Resttime

"It is a grey area in England. Whilst it isn't illegal (providing you don't leave a mark) it is deemed unacceptable by the authorities. So police wouldn't prosecute unless you left a mark but they would make raise a safeguarding concern. So whilst you wouldn't go to prison for doing it, the authorities wouldn't want to leave a DC in that situation unless the parent was willing to learn and change, with the help of SS and parenting courses."

I don't think it's in anyway acceptable to hit / smack a child but I don't think social services are getting involved every time they're aware a child is smacked, social services aka councils budgets can't keep up with the most seriously in need it's an awful reality a lot of this will not be picked up

Clearly u don’t know social services at all then, they have to much power and we all know it, and trying to insult me doesn’t work either sweat heart, and yeah people aren’t getting the support they need because they are more focused on taking kids that don’t need to be taken, I’m going to leave this at that as I don’t really want to talk to someone that try’s to insult when people that don’t agree with them

I can't believe the reactions to OP smacking two fighting teenagers on the back of the legs, once. "So you hit your children?" PP make it sound like she's punching small children in the face, fgs! What she describes was very common in the UK in the 70s and 80s when I was growing up, in fact what OP did sounds extremely mild. Such hysteria. I don't have kids and have spent the last 18 years living in the US (deep blue state, I hasten to add). I was actually pretty amazed when I learnt the UK had banned smacking. Explains the preponderance of children being out of control, screaming and yelling their heads off in public as if they're being hung, drawn and quartered. When I was a child, we got a sharp tap on the bum or legs if we misbehaved, all my friends did, it was normal and never went any further.

Assuming the OP is reporting accurately here, I bet the girls did it to get back at their mother and would have had no idea what they were about to unleash. Must be awful for them being taken out of their home.

Social services are not 'nasty people' they are professionals tasked with the very difficult job of protecting children. They do not have to have evidence of bruises at all if the children are old enough and clear enough about their experiences to tell them what happened. At this stage it appears to be the police who have taken the children, not social services, as they are legally able to do.

Admit your failings to SS- don't try to defend yourself. Tell them you will do any parenting courses they want to send you on. Apologise profusely to your daughters and tell them you are determined to do better from now on, because you love them more than anything and they are your priority.

Rubbish