Ulrika Jonsson - any views??

[ellasmum]

Hi..

Just wondered what people's views were on Ulrika / her book / her date rape allegations??

I personally am not that interested in her life but wonder why she wants to reveal all!!

Welcome back Aloha, I could not agree more with what you have said. Rape is rape - and police attitudes and policies have changed a lot since this happened to Ulrika. I knew two women at university, 20 years ago who were raped by men they knew well, in a date-rape type scenario. Neither of them took it any further because they did not see the point, and because they were embarrassed at the circumstances in which the assault took place. There was zero chance the allegation would have been dealt with sympathetically or appropriately by the police in the early eighties, frankly.
I hope the whole matter is investigated properly.
And Rhubarb, just because a man fails to rape a particular woman he is in a relationship with, it really doesn't mean that any rape allegation against him should be dismissed out of hand. More than one other woman has now been to the police with allegations against the same man. Are they really all bent on revenge?

A very sobering and thought-provoking post Aloha. It made me think of potentially dangerous situations that I got myself into in the past (eg when at Uni), although fortunately I was one of the lucky ones who came out unscathed. I am starting to feel guilty for my gossipy/flippant posts earlier in the thread.

But I still think that Rhubarb has an important point about whether or not he is guilty and there having been no trial. Although not sure how there could be now. Also still think Ulrika should have been able to predict some of this furore and has shown little consideration of her children.

It really seems that there are several issues up for discussion here. Whilst I think Ulrika is a bit of a silly tart for selling out about sleeping with Sven - I hate all this kiss and tell stuff- it is a completely different issue to that of rape. Having consensual sex then deciding to tell the world about it to make a lot of money is unacceptable in my book. Revealing the fact that she was raped is a very different issue. Rape must always be seen as horrific and a total violation: it is terrifying to note how many women who have contributed to this discussion so far have been raped or sexually assaulted (myself included, although like many people here, I was very young, knew nothing and blamed myself completely).

I don't feel Ulrika has done herself any favours by releasing this book but do feel she is completely justified in talking about the fact that she was victim to a horrible crime and one which seems to be often ignored.

welcome back, aloha! well said. and oxocube, marina, bozza, 21stcenturygirl...

ulrika hasn't shown very good judgement in certain areas of her life, but that doesn't mean she somehow deserved what happened to her.

my sister is in the met and worked for some time as a chaperone for rape victims. can i assure everyone out there the police now make every effort to offer sympathy and constructive support to those who have been raped, although the criminal justice system still leaves a lot to be desired.

to those of you who have survived rapes and assaults - my sympathy and admiration for your courage.

Some great posts here- as bossykate said. Am now feeling quite guilty for getting a bit of a thrill from it as a juicy gossip whodunnit type story- rape isn't something to take lightly no matter how famous the victim and possible perpetrator, as has quite rightly been pointed out.

Thanks ScummyMummy.

Has anyone actually read the book? Lots of people here have been criticising it, and the fact that she chose to speak about this. Has anyone seen what was actually written?

Yes, of course, JL should be innocent until proven guilty, but it seems that celebrities don't get that 'luxury' in our media led society. I don't think that is an option anyway as a trial seems very unlikely. How he will cope with the situation from here on remains to be seen.

Just because JL is innocent until proven guilty, doesn't mean UJ is lying. I am also surprised by the lack of support for UJ. Isn't it just this sort of attitude that prevents women coming forward and reporting rape in the first place? That's not to say that as women we have to take her word and assume that just because he is male he is a rapist.

I think the point I was trying to make in my last post was that a rapist doesn't need to be an evil monster, any more than a victim needs to be an innocent virgin. It can be just a misunderstanding - not that I want to belittle anyone's experience, there are two sides to every story. Unfortunately balance and fairness do not make good news.

As I said before, it's a very tough call, and I think at the end of the day it's a question of who you choose to believe. At this stage there is very little chance of ever knowing what really went on. I don't honestly think taking sides is helpful to anyone, we can only speculate, but there you go. You pays your money, you takes your choice. I personally find the media's great pleasure in the scandal quite distasteful.

Aloha - well put and eloquent as ever.
PS: are you referring to Merlyn?

Can't believe it, I go away for a few days and THIS happens!!! Wish I could say I was mature enough to rise above it!

UJ = silly little girl. Damaged by her dad parading his sex life in front of her and yet she does the same to her kids.

Agree with aloha (of course!)etc about the rape reporting etc. Rape is rape is rape, can understand why not report at the time buuuuuuuuuuttt, why drop so many clues about identity if you are insistent, as she claims, that you don't want the identity revealed?

Plus, I think she engineered the Sven affair to ensure sales of the book.

at 19 years old, I'm not sure I'd go to the police and report that I'd been raped by a famous name. His word against mine etc.

We can all sit here and say 'she should've reported it at the time', but that's easier said than done. UJ is still saying that she won't name him. I agree that JL should be innocent until proven guilty, but I don't think UJ deserves to labelled a tart etc.

Ellasmum, you wondered in your original post why UJ wants to reveal all, isn't mumsnet just as public as her book, why have some mumsnet members chosen to reveal certain aspects of their lives here.

UJ is a real person too, and, a mum. Who's to say that she doesn't read or post on mumsnet.

A rep whom I have always liked came to my place of work today . He said something along the lines of "she's (UJ) probably just like all those women who have sex with someone then decide it wasn't very good or they wish they hadn't so they cry rape.Even if it was date rape, that is not as bad as being attacked by a stranger. At least she had chosen to be with him and was attracted to him"...
I did not even want to speak to him after he said this. Where do you even start with someone who thinks like that?

This is a married father of two daughters who up until now I always thought was a nice guy...

ive never liked uj very cant tell you why but just my gut instinct but i do have every sympathy for her regarding the rape and anybody else that has been raped assaulted etc.but reagrding the her word against mine thing if she was so badly bruised etc that she spent time in hospital then surely that could have been used to bring him to justice.doctors etc would be able to tell the difference between rough sex and force even that long ago.
luckily ive never been in this position but im a very revengeful person naturally and think that if this happened to me my ultimate revenge would be to do everything in my power to make sure this person punished (law wise)for what he did.
im not condoning jl at all but he hasnt even been questioned by the police yet and yet everyone is assuming him guilty.whereas uj is a credible person normally the other 10 or so other women who have come forward may not be.i was able to suss out who uj meant without it coming out maybe they did too.im not saying that theyre all lying but the fact some have gone to max clifford rather than the police makes me a bit suspicious.

I don't like the idea of Ulrika giving out details of her affairs, etc, I think it's bad enough to have an affair (speaking as someone who met my partner when he was married, albeit at the end of his marriage). I was so ashamed of my behaviour (won't go into it all) BUT the last thing I would do is add insult to injury and go into details for the wife to read, this is already the person who has been hurt beyond belief, that's the thing that bugs me the most about Ulrika.
With regard to the rape, I have every sympathy for Ulrika. I know she has refused to name her rapist but I do believe, hope I'm not being niaive, that if the WRONG person was named she would step forward to defend them. Personally if I was in her situation I do think it would have been hard to come forward and press charges at the time and perhaps this is her way of finally getting back at him, I don't have any problems with her doing this, perhaps this is her way of having 'closure' (sorry to use such an Americanism) on this horrible event in her life.

Ailsa - I think the difference between 'real life' and Mumsnet is that people can reveal aspects of their life anonymously (sp??) and receive good advice without feeling the need to say who they really are. This makes it slightly different from the route UJ has gone down IMO

I now feel bad about being so gossipy and lighthearted as rape is a serious issue not to be taken lightly.

Absolutely ellasmum.... Ailsa, you could find out loads about anyone on this site, but I bet you a million quid you couldn't point them out in a shopping centre (unless you'd been to a meet up). That is the big difference.

sobernow - completely agree with what you've said. Also, why, why, why for someone so media aware (apparently) would you make videos of yourself having sex with Stan Colleymore AND LET HIM KEEP THEM??????

more to the point, why would you have sex with Stan Collymore...

Come on www- we are talking about a woman who slept with Sven here - and HUNTER!

The thing I find sad is that everyone now presumes that JL is guilty. UJ has not been out of the news lately for one thing after another. The other women have gone to Max Clifford with their stories. The only winner will be Ulrika's bank at the end of this.

Janus I agree with you..2 points spring to mind (didn't read the whole thread so they may have been made)

1. 14 years ago... date rape was not a rape in most people's mind...
2. If you are a celebrity (a young one at that) would you risk all at the time to accuse someone else of rape ? Would you go through all that aggravetaion/risk to herbown career*... she was 19 at the time !

• I know that sounds perverse but for having been in the TV world 16 years ago myself... it was common for upcoming stars to sleep around to get jobs and further your career ! She may now realise how this rape (and everything else from her upbinging) has shaped her attitude towards sex... I am willing to believe that.

Well, I barely know who UJ is and I never heard of JL before I read this thread (we don't have a telly...).

but I do konw that if something this horrible happened to me a huge part of me would want to bury and forget about it, and the rest of me would feel compelled to tell the story to try to come to terms with it, somehow. I expect that UJ is caught between those 2 extremes, too.

I agree it's terrible that JL is being tried & found guilty by the media. Bit like Michael Barrymore (and I barely understand who he is/was, either!).

Life without telly is bliss.

i see it that JL must be the accuse by UJ as she hasn't denied it. You wouldn't let an innocent man be blamed. If it isn't JL i imagine she would'vecome out and said it's not him but i'm still not saying who it is! Her saying nothing is accusing him.

I agree with Pupuce.

And I haven't been following the story very closely, but she denies even hinting at his identity. If what she has said is that she was raped, and people figured the rest out, then can she really be blamed for that?

anais - I agree with you about the 'evil monster' amd 'virgin' comment in your ealier posting. However, yes, UJ CAN be blamed for the JL name coming out. She gave just enough info. for the media to work out who it was. IMO she could have just said 'I was raped' and leave it at that.

If JL did attack her and any other women, he deserves to be put in prison, and to lose his career. BUT, if he didn't, he doesn't deserve what has happened to him already. The media sometimes seem to decide the fate of people, without needing hard facts or corroboration.

This all leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth. It is very sad that UJ has probably lost a lot of support over this allegation because of her recent Sven revelations. How can she be the innocent victim whilst also playing the 'kiss and tell' game? She has made an error of judgement IMO, or could it just be bad timing?

Re Stan Collymore - prior to the UJ episode, I have to admit that I could easily imagine why anyone would.