Ulrika Jonsson - any views??

[ellasmum]

Hi..

Just wondered what people's views were on Ulrika / her book / her date rape allegations??

I personally am not that interested in her life but wonder why she wants to reveal all!!

Like and agree with that last post, anais. Very measured.

Some of you are being horrible about Ulrika not going to the Police -- would you? Being a victim has a HUGE STIGMA attached to it. Who wants to wave their hand in public and say, "Look at me, I'm easy prey!" which is how it feels. We forget that a violated woman is a stained woman. Who wants their sexual history questioned in detail, in public or even in private? Who wants the whole world to know you've been violated?

And it makes a huge difference between saying this happened, and then saying who actually did it. Because then people try to imagine it once they can actually picture both parties. If you were the victim, would you want lots of other people thinking about it and coming very close to seeing it in their mind's eye as it really happened; isn't that almost like reliving the whole awful experience? Who wants to confront their attacker? Who wouldn't want to try to forget all about it, but then years later, realise you have to come to terms with it, and only be able to do it piecemeal?

It's not easy; maybe UJ has revealed this in the most sloppy way, but it's something that few of us could handle neatly and rationally. Too primal a thing.

Ok, vent over .

if you don't want the world to know you've been violated don't put it in a book!

Agree with Tissy.
I can't understand how anyone who has had such an awful experience and has kept it locked away for so long, could

a) want the whole world to read and hear about it and talk about it.

b) expect the mans name not to be revealed.

My feeling now is that she has done it to help her book sales and destroy the now successful career of the man involved (revenge). Can't blame her for the revenge aspect but sad if thats the only way she can make money.

in answer to your post zebra then yes i would report a rape/assualt whatever.the person who does this needs to be punished for what they have done,but to keep it quiet for all these years and then put it in a book for public sale and then refuse to name the person who did it does not in my case ,deserve any sympathy.in the news this morning it is reported that 11 women have now come forward to name this person and say they experienced the same sort of thing.my biggest curiosity is out of 11/12 women WHY hasnt at least one reported him?especially the women who alledges he bit her and bruised her so badly it took 6 weeks to heal!
it takes great courage to go to the authorities over an experience like this but if i was in their shoes i would have contacted the police and let them deal with him...not sit quiet for all thses years and then let it out.after all now its just a case of their word against his...no proof at all,and if he is innocent of these crimes a mans career and reputation have been ruined.after all there are some people in this world who lie just for publicity and greed.

From where I see it, yes UJ should have gone to the police at the time , and so should the other women involved, but, at least one of the other women worked in TV, as of course UJ.

My point is this, if you work in TV or film, there are things that happen that do get swept under the carpet so everyone keeps their jobs and doesn't cause a scandal.
What was JL doing 12 years ago, was it still Blue Peter? I mean look what happened to Richard Bacon and the cocaine business. Now that was and probably still is commonplace, but there are plenty of people in the industry that would have their careers ruined by such a thing.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that 12 years ago, UJ was not the celeb she is now, maybe if it had happened 12 days ago she would be happy to go to the police, but if you are female and work in this industry sometimes keeping your mouth shut will be better than telling the truth.

I would also like to add that I don't think she should have mentioned this in her book...it hasn't done her any good or the man involved. Also cannot believe Crisp man, he seems so nice!

Dh told me that JL won't be presenting today! Gutted!

zebra, totally agree - how does any one know how they would react without being in the situation themselves? I am surprised at the negative reaction received by Ulrika's claims esp from a group of mothers - I know it is probably equally wrong of me to stereotype what most mothers' view would be in this way.

To be honest I'm not surprised Ulrika didn't report it at the time if the link TracyHay suggested is true. I was one of the 'lucky' ones to get to read the message board before it was shut down and I doubt she would have wanted the police to be looking into her experiences at swinging parties. She was at the start of her career and something like that coming public would have probably stopped it dead. Mind you the media would have just explained that as she's swedish its probably 'normal' and the only words the media associate with swedes is boring, naturists, volvo and they like lots of sex. Either way I can't believe that not one of the other women supposedly involved didn't go to the police or at least sell the story to the newspapers. I agree with Rhubarb she does seem to be a woman set on revenge - she hasn't had a nice thing to say about any of the men in her life. Its the children I feel sorry for - that book is going to be around for a long time and so they are going to be able to read it when they're older what will they make of it all. I don't think Ulrika comes out in a very nice light all round.

I remember Ulrika said in that documentary they showed last week on Channel 4 that she was "damaged" - ie her childhood had left her scarred and what have you.

She's acting like a lot of really damaged people act - repeating the pattern and damaging her life even more plus the lives of everyone she comes into contact with. I bet she doesn't do it deliberately, but she's just a really messed up person by the look of it.

Can't believe it about GL - is there NO man you can trust?

It amazes me that some of the women here are so unsupportive of UJ over this. Date rape is rape and she had the right to say no. However no matter how sophisticated she thought she was at 19 she probably (at the time) thought it was her fault. Being a bit drunk, flirting with a guy, even going back to hotel room with him, does not mean she agreed to have sex with him. JL is a big guy (about 6'4" and once she was in that situation she probably felt that she couldn't get out of it.

I know, bacause it happned to me. Again years ago, and I didn't tell anyone as I knew no-one would believe me. I was travelling, so not in my own country, I had been flirting with the guy etc, and he offered me a bed for the night. Promised a separate room. When I realised he didn't have a separate room, let alone a separte sofa to sleep on it was too late. I went through with it, even though I cried all the time, because it was easier! I thought it was entirely my fault, and that I was stupid! It took me a long time to stop being anry at myself, and direct that anger back at the person concerned.

Yes UJ may have slept with loads of men, to be honest I don't care, yes she might have putt his in a book and not gone to the police. However I think for her this was a way of losing the demons that are within her. Perhaps she was still stupid enough to believe that the name wouldn't come out, or perhaps she knew he had done it to others (more likely I think). She also knew that it was too late to go to the police, they don't really believe that date rape happens, or she believed in revenge. Others have now come forward, some to Max Clifford, but I believe at least one has gone to the police, so he is under investigation. He is a sleazy bloke, who has used his name, and position to get owmen. I am sure some women have slept with him because of who he is, and he probably believes UJ was one of these. JL is an arrogant s*t and I hope he career is f**ed as the wheel of fortune says!!

Oh Crunchie - much sympathy !
Managed to just get myself out of very similar situation years ago before things got too heated IYKWIM - but still remember feeling too embarassed to tell anyone as I felt it had been my own stupid fault.

Also have much sympathy with UJ - I like her too.

PS Please don't do all the symapathy thing elc, I have put it all behind me and chalked it up one one of lifes experinces. I only mentioned it to try to put it iin context of what people are saying about UJ. Bear in mind this is still something DH and all my friends in the real world don't know - and I will never say. Mumsnet means I can get it off my chest in this situation as at work people are sayinf she asked for it etc, and I am trying to stick up for he, but my arguments don't carry much weight without the personal knowledge of the situation

Hugs to you anyway Crunchie!

Let's face it, even if it wasn't JL, his career is f**d anyway. After 13 years or whatever it is, it's unlikely to be proved one way or another. I'm not sure how recent the "other women" are though.

Obviously this is a slightly different situation but does anyone else agree that the accused's name should be kept anonymous in these cases in the same way as the victim's is? Until a conviction that is.

Crunchie - I do know how you feel - I've been there too. Nice guy, who I thought was a friend, offered me a bed for the night after a huge row with my Mum, and it was only when it was too late that I realised he meant his own bed. I too felt v. stupid - should have seen it coming, etc, but later managed to realise that it wasn't my fault.
But I have a totally different reaction the UJ. I wrote down what had happened to em, and found this helped the closure process, but I would never have published. I think the media furore that she has caused with this actually helps to trivilise "date" rape and causes more people to take it less seriously

and I've also been there - though not a 'date rape' (really hate that phrase) it was a long time ago but at the moment, with all the headline screaming RAPE - it could have been yesterday. I'm thinking of everyone whose been through it, take care.

She seems to go for the older man, so perhaps we're all barking up the wrong tree - could it be DL not GL?????

Oh dear, this does make me want to post again! Sorry to anyone who was glad to see the back of me, but I have been browsing the boards lately and couldn't resist this one...I'll have my rant and then be off again... I have very bravely resisted the GF thread....

In the course of my life (both personal and professional) I have met several intelligent, sensible, completely normal and totally honest woman who have been raped - two of them by someone they knew. One was left for dead after having her neck cut with cheesewire, another was drugged and 'date-raped', others (at least three immediately come to mind) were raped by men they knew briefly who were just a lot bigger and stronger and forced themselves on them. Only the first two went to the police. The others knew they would almost certainly not be believed, and that the whole humiliating process of going to court would be hell, their sexual history held up for ridicule etc and that there was a 90%+ chance of their rapist getting off, so they would forever be regarded as women who made false allegations, with all the hatred etc that goes with that. The fact they were 'date-raped' didn't make the trauma less. The one who was left for dead has made a spectacular recovery, while I only found out one of my friends had been raped when after a bit of a drunken night out on a skiing holiday, she got separated from the group and was found shaking and sobbing hysterically while hiding in an alley - it turned out she had been raped when she got separated from friends in a similar situation and whenever she was left alone it all came back to her in a rush. My point is, I don't think women who have been raped have any duty to keep quiet about it at all. Why should they? Personally I don't believe Ulrika would have made this up. Nothing else in the book was made up. Also, if this guy is innocent, why did his name get out so quickly and why do so many women have stories about him - including an acquaintance who has a rather scary story of her own about him (biting was involved). UJ says she didn't name him in the book precisely because all these years later there would be no evidence but I suspect that over the years she has told friends what happened, and why shouldn't she? If someone hit me, stole from me or vandalised my house, I'd certainly tell people, even if for personal reasons I didn't go to the police. Why should rape be different? I don't particularly like what I see of UJ - too many married men in her life for me to think she's a very sisterly person, and I think it's very hard on her children for her sex life to be such public property - but I do defend her right to tell on the rape issue. She was only 19 at the time - at a similar age I innocently went to a hotel room in Italy with a guy who I'd only just met because he said he wanted to get his jumper. I wasn't raped, but it did turn pretty nasty for a while and I really had to threaten to scream and yell for the police before he agreed to let me out of the room. I was scared. I think many of us could have been raped and we shouldn't be so hard on those who were but couldn't face going to the police. Also, 15 years ago the police often weren't very sensitive at all, rape victims got a really hard time and I suspect the whole thing would probably have ended her career. Also - one of the reasons the police opppose anonymity for rape suspects is because often, once one woman comes forward, and the guy's name is published, other women come forward with horrific stories the details of which all match (rapists often use exactly the same methods and phrases). Recently a serial rapist was convicted after one woman was brave enough to go to the police, and on hearing the bare bones of the case, many more women came forward to say the same thing had happened to them. Some were so traumatised that they had left the country for good. But often the police aren't allowed to present the cases together so many rapists are tried over and over again for virtually identical cases of rape yet because the cases are heard singly, in front of different juries, he can be acquitted every time after mounting the same defence. It is as if Harold Shipman (serial killing GP) was accused of each murder separately - I bet he would have got off every time.

Ok, bye bye!!

Well said Aloha.

Yes but people - aren't we forgetting the innocent until proven guilty bit? We are siding with UJ assuming that she is telling the truth - so why are we so quick to jump to her side? What if he IS innocent? Men's lives have been made hell by false rape claims. Now that his name is in the papers I think she will be forced to either press charges or back down. As it is she has already ruined his career. The media also have a lot to answer for, this should be dealt with properly in a court of law before any more damage is done.

Welcome back aloha! You have been missed.

Looking back at over all these postings, it seems to me that we all know of or have been the victim of a sexual assault. Isn't that horrific?

I know of 2 friends that were raped; the first one's court case was a nightmare and she wasn't allowed to consult a Rape Support group as this would prejudice the case, in the favour of the defendant. As you all rightly say, her sexual history, clothes, background were examined in court. Thankfully, it resulted in a conviction.

However, my other friend was raped and there were witnesses and evidence but the CPS decided the case wasn't strong enough for a conviction.

Why should us women have to put up with Rape as one of life's bitter experiences?

very well written Aloha....and I totally agree with the police attitude to rape around 15 years ago. 14 years ago the police process was almost worse than the rape itself for me and i'm not joking. I sincerely hope it is far better now.

MABS - I know the support process has definitely improved from 14 years ago. It's just the justice system that hasn't.

thanks for letting me know that 21stcenturygirl, yeah I'm sure you're right - the justice system is appalling.